The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[kleronomos]

NO CHURCH FLIGHTS TO BE FOUND IN THESE


Ephesians 2:1 And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

We have been made SPIRITUALLY ALIVE. OUR SPIRIT being is brought forth and is to grow and gain control. We were dead to the ways and desires of GOD and alive to the worldly ways and desires of the flesh but when we come to faith that whole thing is switched and now IT IS ON THE RIGHTEOUS AND HOLY PATH THE HEAVENLY PATH we wish to walk. That is how we are MADE ALIVE while remaining on earth.

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

We haven't been taken from the earth to heaven, but we have been made alive and have received the promise of salvation the gift from God because He loves us.

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus

We are no longer OF THE WORLD, so our thoughts and wishes and wants are stayed upon the heavenly realm where Christ our Lord and Savior now is. Because we are in Him and He is in us, we are SPIRITUALLY in heaven with Him. When our earthen vessel breaks we will at that point GO TO ACTUALLY BE with Him in the place He went to prepare for us. An EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY UNDERGONE THIS IS FOUND IN REV 19 Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.



Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power

MEANING WHETHER ON EARTH OR IN HEAVEN HE HAS US

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ

12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses

MADE SPIRITUALLY ALIVE WHILE STILL IN THE FLESH ON EARTH

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

THE GRAVES WERE OPENED AND THE ALIVE WENT WALKING AROUND IN BODIES THAT WE WILL ALSO BE IN WHEN WE RETURN WITH CHRIST FOR THE BEGINNING OF THE LORDS DAY

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.




Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not

22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

THAT IS BE RISEN RIGHT NOW THIS MOMENT, SPIRITUALLY ALIVE AND SEEKING THE THINGS FROM ABOVE AND NOT HAVING ANY CONCERN FOR 'THE FLESH' LIFE OR DEATH.


2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE BEHEADED OR NOT, YOUR FLESH LIFE IS ALREADY DEAD AND GONE. IF YOU ARE SEEKING TO SAVE THAT LIFE THEN YOU ARE NOT DEAD AND RISEN AT ALL . YOU ARE ONLY GIVING LIP SERVICE.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.


IS CHRIST GOING TO BE RISING UP AND APPEARING? NO. SO 'ADDING' A RESURRECTION TO THIS VERSE FOR 'US' WOULD BE AN ACT OF DECEPTION.


5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry

6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free but Christ is all, and in all.

GODS CHILDREN, THE SAVED, THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH, THE NEW CREATURE, THE IN AND GRAFTED IN ALL MADE ONE.

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.


KNOWN BY OUR FRUITS AND EVERY IDLE WORD TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Now, at the resurrection of the saved, is the remnant of living believers included in that resurrection? Yes.

The STILL-LIVING of us, do not require "resurrection" (defined as: "to stand AGAIN [on the earth; after having physically DIED]")... so, NO. The "STILL-ALIVE" ones are already STANDING there... no need to be "RESURRECTED". This is where you are getting confused, and presenting a confused picture.

Every believer will be "resurrected" in the sense of receiving a glorified (imperishable) body.

That's not what is called "resurrection" [which is defined as: "to stand AGAIN [on the earth; after having physically DIED]"]... you're pointing out "glorification" (not "resurrection" of a previously DEAD / DECEASED body)

Those living at Christ's return will be "changed in the twinkling of the eye", which is when they get their new body.

Same as when "the dead in Christ" (who shall "rise first" [i.e. be resurrected from the dead]) will get theirs, ALL [all of us] "[CHANGED] IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye"

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

We haven't been taken from the earth to heaven, but

Not physically / literally [YET], in those passages... but "positionally / legally" (AT THE TIME that JESUS HIMSELF WAS)... and pertaining SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])... the SAME ENTITY to whom / of whom "RAPTURE [/SNATCH]" (yet future) SOLELY pertains also! (not to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints)

 

[Heaven_Bound]

That passage ^ in reference, is what will be taking place FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (per CONTEXT)

And yet, it is happening NOW and there has been No such pre-trib Rapture taking place!

May I ask, what "PEACE TREATY" (in Scripture) are you talking about [that is "going to be made to stop these from becoming Wars?"]
Scripture reference, please.

The Antichrist's 7 year Covenant with Israel is a Peace Treaty.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead.

This text ^ states, "having-been-buried-with [one word: "syntaphentes" ] Him in THE baptism"

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

This ^ is stating A FACT.

See Romans 6:3 (to know what "THE baptism" [Col2:12] was in reference to [and it's not "water"]) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/6-3.htm :

"Or are you unaware that as many as have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?"

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE BEHEADED OR NOT, YOUR FLESH LIFE IS ALREADY DEAD AND GONE. IF YOU ARE SEEKING TO SAVE THAT LIFE THEN YOU ARE NOT DEAD AND RISEN AT ALL . YOU ARE ONLY GIVING LIP SERVICE.

Fluff. Having nothing to do with the texts I listed and you spelled out.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

"Set YOUR minds on things above, NOT on the things on the earth" (Colossians 3);

Same point being made in Philippians 3:19 [but in a negative way], "who *mind* earthly things"... yet this is what I see continually from the "POST-tribs'" viewpoint... continually setting their "minds" on Israel's EARTHLY things (as though WE ARE "Israel". NOT.)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And yet, it is happening NOW and there has been No such pre-trib Rapture taking place!
The Antichrist's 7 year Covenant with Israel is a Peace Treaty.

I'm not entirely convinced that "shall confirm [/strengthen] covenant" MUST mean "A PEACE TREATY"

 

[Heaven_Bound]

I'm not entirely convinced that "shall confirm [/strengthen] covenant" MUST mean "A PEACE TREATY"

Before that Covenant we see Israel trying to engage in War like now. After that covenant, we read no War only between Israel and antichrist around midway Tribulation. Sometimes, Logic is a powerful tool. Too bad most refuse to apply it!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Before that Covenant we see Israel trying to engage in War like now. After that covenant, we read no War only between Israel and antichrist around midway Tribulation. Sometimes, Logic is a powerful tool. Too bad most refuse to apply it!

SEAL #2 (not too far INTO the Trib) is that "peace is taken from the earth"... the SECOND SEAL is the "WARS" (EARLY ON in the Trib yrs)... which I've continued to show how the Ezekiel 38-39 [see 39:7 wording esp] WAR occurs EARLY in the Trib yrs (SAME AS what Gen45:1,6 regarding JOSEPH in his "seven year famine" when there remained yet FIVE YEARS till the end of that); very similar wording between the two...


[may the readers recall: "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are EQUIVALENT the SEALS of Rev6 at the START of the TRIB YRS... the SECOND ONE being "WARS [and rumors of wars]"... the FIRST one being the AC]

 

[kleronomos]

...and then further down in this chpt Paul states, "Behold, I SHEW you A MYSTERY... THIS corruptible" and "THIS mortal" ("THIS" specific one; not one that was ALREADY WELL-KNOWN unto all OT saints, like Job [Job19:25-27] and Daniel [Dan12:13] and Martha [Jn11:24]); "Behold, I SHEW you" (means this is a task given to PAUL to disclose... specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)], not the OT saints [etc])

Does that tell you anything? the 'then further down in the chpt'? like at the end of it.


AFTER EXPLAINING about the dead rising verse after verse after verse, Christ being amongst the dead but the highest ranking of any dead there will ever be, hopefully we understand that for Christ to rise, the dead must rise (and the graves were opened) and did. So to be sure, for Christ to have risen those who were 'sleeping' had to be able to rise also. If the dead didn't rise then neither did Christ meaning COMFORT EACH OTHER WITH THESE WORDS AND DON'T BE LIKE THE HEATHEN. WHAT is so hard about writing that out? ALL the dead don't rise. ONLY THE SAVED until the last day when the dead rise. THEN

THE MYSTERY................................ON THE VERY LAST DAY OF THIS AGE, CHRIST IS COMING AND THE 'DEAD'


STOP RIGHT THERE. Since we have been told over and over again that the saved are risen THERE ARE NO SAVED TO BE RESURRECTED ON THE LAST DAY except the THE TWO WITNESSES BECAUSE ALL THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE HAVE RISEN. SAVED from death. They NEVER SEE DEATH. Death can't hold ANYTHING but the OLD CARCASS used to walk around in on the earth. The decaying flesh one that got sick and old and broken and wrinkled. Death gets to have that body. That body returns to the earth. THE ONES WHO WERE MADE ALIVE BY CHRIST GO TO BE WHERE HE IS. THEY RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE.

GOD DID NOT PROMISE US 'ETERNAL LIFE WITH A NAP INBETWEEN'.

THAT NAP COMES FROM MEN. CHRIST SAID I AM GOING AND WHERE I AM GOING, I AM PREPARING A PLACE FOR YOU SO YOU CAN BE WITH ME and we will return together to set up the kingdom that was rejected IN A DAY OR TWO.

that is what I BELIEVE IS 'written'.

THAT IS LIKE Jesus SAYING

I AM GOING NEXT DOOR AND WHEN YOU GET OFF WORK JUMP OUT OF THOSE SPOTTED DIRTY CLOTHES (GOT YOU SOME NEW ONES) AND COME ON OVER I WILL BE HERE WAITING FOR YOU. SEE YOU AS SOON AS YOU GET OFF WORK. OH and I am going to bring you TO the Father. No one but me can bring you in to see HIM.


WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS SAYING IS

HE IS SAYING

I AM GOING NEXT DOOR AND WHEN YOU GET OFF WORK GO TAKE A NAP IN THOSE NASTY DIRTY CLOTHES AND WHEN EVERYONE ONE ELSE HAS FINISHED WITH THEIR WORK THEN I WILL COME BACK AND GIVE YOU and everyone else SOME NEW ONES. SEE YOU ON THE DAY WHEN THE COMPANY FINALLY CLOSES IT DOORS AND I WILL MEET YOU THERE.


WITHOUT ADDING ANY THING TO SCRIPTURE and using only Scripture I CAN SHOW WHAT IS WRITTEN FOR SCENE 1.

CAN ANYONE SHOW ME SCRIPTURE FOR SCENE 2? Can't add A SINGLE WORD OF EXPLANATION. Use ONLY WHAT IS WRITTEN BY GOD.

Don't worry, I already know no one will take me up on this RIGHT NOW.

ONE thing we can all agree on is all FLESH THAT GOES INTO THE GRAVE, die, go to sleep, are put into graves IS NOT THE SAME. Some 'flesh pots' break but INSIDE THOSE POTS IS FOUND ETERNAL LIFE. The other 'flesh pots' break and all they contain is death.


So when 'the dead' rise, might want to think about who is really standing up that day.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

SEAL #2 (not too far INTO the Trib) is that "peace is taken from the earth"... the SECOND SEAL is the "WARS" (EARLY ON in the Trib yrs)... which I've continued to show how the Ezekiel 38-39 [see 39:7 wording esp] WAR occurs EARLY in the Trib yrs (SAME AS what Gen45:1,6 regarding JOSEPH in his "seven year famine" when there remained yet FIVE YEARS till the end of that); very similar wording between the two...


[may the readers recall: "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are EQUIVALENT the SEALS of Rev6 at the START of the TRIB YRS... the SECOND ONE being "WARS [and rumors of wars]"... the FIRST one being the AC]

And that is happening now without a pre-trib rapture. We are literally on the Verge of WWIII with 6 Nations already involved in potential War and USA will be number 7 involved followed by Europe and others.

 

[TheLordIsMyRedeemer]

And that is happening now without a pre-trib rapture. We are literally on the Verge of WWIII with 6 Nations already involved in potential War and USA will be number 7 involved followed by Europe and others.

Yes, the signs the Lord spoke of in Matt. 24:4-8 are visible. The situation with Russia and NATO continues to deteriorate.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Now, at the resurrection of the saved, is the remnant of living believers included in that resurrection? Yes.

The STILL-LIVING of us, do not require "resurrection" (defined as: "to stand AGAIN [on the earth; after having physically DIED]")... so, NO. The "STILL-ALIVE" ones are already STANDING there... no need to be "RESURRECTED". This is where you are getting confused, and presenting a confused picture.

It seems you continue to be confused.

When I talk about the resurrection when believers receive their glorified body (imperishable), that one is a singular one, where ALL believers, (dead AND alive) will receive their new glorified bodies. Your "definition" means nothing. The dead will have been with jesus SINCE they died and they will come to earth with Him. 1 Thess 4 makes that perfectly clear.

"FreeGrace2 said:
Every believer will be "resurrected" in the sense of receiving a glorified (imperishable) body."

That's not what is called "resurrection" [which is defined as: "to stand AGAIN [on the earth; after having physically DIED]"]... you're pointing out "glorification" (not "resurrection" of a previously DEAD / DECEASED body)

If you want to have a discussion with me, get used to the biblical definition. Acts 26:23 defines the "firstfruits" of resurrection as being Jesus, who was "first to rise from the dead". That clearly refers to His receiving His glorified body, and that is WHY His resurrection is called "the firstfruits". No human being receives a glorified body before Jesus did.

I don't even know how your "to stand again" can be applied to the ONE resurrection of the saved where ALL of the saved receive their glorified body.

Same as when "the dead in Christ" (who shall "rise first" [i.e. be resurrected from the dead]) will get theirs, ALL [all of us] "[CHANGED] IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye"

That's what I'm talking about. When all believers get their glorified bodies.

All the examples of humans "rising from the dead" when Jesus was crucified, or by miracle when He was on earth have NO RELEVANCE to the ONE resurrection when the saved get their glorified bodies.

 

[kleronomos]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Is the Bride IN heaven in Rev 19? Yes. Is the Bride "getting ready for the supper"? Yes.

Does the Bride accompany King Jesus back to earth in Rev 19? Yes.

Now, at the resurrection of the saved, is the remnant of living believers included in that resurrection? Yes.

Any questions?

If you can prove that verse doesn't mean what I claim, then please show what it does say.

a hope having in God which also they themselves await,

they must wait as they have not yet gone to sleep. There is a time 'element' there.

a resurrection there is about to be

Once that death comes a resurrection IS ABOUT TO BE


OF THE JUST

WHICH COMES IMMEDIATELY. WHY? BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN SAVED.

SAVED FROM WHAT? DEATH AND WRATH.

SAVED FROM REMAINING IN BONDAGE TO DEATH UNTIL THE RESURRECTION OF THE 'UNJUST' the un saved, those who chose death and not life, those who chose poorly, those who chose the ways of the world, those who worshipped other gods, THE DEAD, THE SPIRITUALLY DEAD, THE UNSAVED FROM DEATH, THOSE WHO DID NOT ENDURE TO THE END, THOSE WHO TOOK THE MARK OF THE BEAST, THOSE WHO WERE DECEIVED, THOSE WHO TAUGHT FALSE DOCTRINES OF MAN MAKING VOID THE WORDS OF GOD, etc.


both


and of unjust.

THE RESURRECTION OF THE 'UNJUST' the un saved, those who chose death and not life, those who chose poorly, those who chose the ways of the world, those who worshipped other gods, THE DEAD, THE SPIRITUALLY DEAD, THE UNSAVED FROM DEATH, THOSE WHO DID NOT ENDURE TO THE END, THOSE WHO TOOK THE MARK OF THE BEAST, THOSE WHO WERE DECEIVED, THOSE WHO TAUGHT FALSE DOCTRINES OF MAN MAKING VOID THE WORDS OF GOD, etc.

WHAT IS IT THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO HAPPEN BEFORE DEATH? FORGIVENESS. WHAT THE LAW COULD NOT DO. WHY SO MANY 'DIED' AND DIDN'T GO TO GOD. THEY COULDN'T BE PERFECT. SO WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF BEING 'MADE PERFECT' BY HIS BLOOD IF IT DID NOTHING?


WE ARE MADE NEW CREATURES. IT IS A CHANGE IN LIFE. IT IS A CHANGE IN DEATH. WE ARE SEPARATED. SET ASIDE. SANCTIFIED. JUSTIFIED. WE HAVE BECOME HEAVENLY. THIS IS NO LONGER OUR WORLD. WE ALREADY SIT IN HEAVEN. WE ARE NOT OF THEM. WE HAVE COME OUT FROM THEM.

HOW IS IT YOU DON'T KNOW THIS, FEEL THIS. LIVE THIS RIGHT NOW. EVERY SECOND YOU ARE ALIVE KNOWING YOU WILL NEVER SUFFER DEATH AS THOSE WHO CHOSE DEATH. YOU CHOSE LIFE. YOU CHOSE GODS WAY. YOU CHOSE WISELY. THERE ARE BENEFITS THAT WE DON'T WAIT FOR. THEY ARE HERE NOW. THEY BRING YOU PEACE. WE ARE TOLD ALL THESE THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

DON'T FEAR WHO CAN KILL YOU FLESH. WHY? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CONTINUING IN LIFE. SUCKS IF YOU CHOSE DEATH BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO BE DEATH FOOD. YOU ARE GOING TO DEATH.


WE ARE GOING TO LIFE. GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING AND NOT THE DEAD. GOD IS THE GOD OF THE AWAKE AND NOT THE SLEEPING. GOD IS OUR GOD AND OUR GOD IS LIFE ETERNAL. THAT STARTED THE DAY YOU CAME TO FAITH. NOTHING ON THIS PLANET CAN EVER KILL YOU. YOU HAVE ALL POWER BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY SAVED. THERE IS NO 'DYING' IN YOUR FUTURE. THERE IS NO SLEEP IN YOUR FUTURE. THERE IS ONLY RESURRECTION IN YOUR SPIRITUAL BODY TO GO BE WITH CHRIST OR

IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN THE MOST PRIVILEGED PLACE IN ALL ETERNITY FOR A SON OF GOD AND THAT IS TO BE HERE WHEN SATAN IS CAST FROM HEAVEN TO THE EARTH AND YOU GET TO STAND FOR OUR FATHER, OUR CREATOR

DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU WILL HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GIVE SOMETHING TO GOD THAT VERY FEW WILL EVER BE EVER TO SAY. THAT GOD WILL ALWAYS KNOW.


John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because He laid down His life for us and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

IF WE ARE ABLE TO DO THAT WHEN THE ADVERSARY IS HERE TRYING TO DECEIVE US INTO DOING THE OPPOSITE
THAT IS FOREVER. I CAN'T EVER FIGURE OUT HOW TO THANK GOD NEAR ENOUGH FOR ALL THE BLESSING I RECEIVE EVERYDAY.

17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?







READ THESE THROUGH MY EYES,

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour Me.

50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep My saying, he shall never see death.


HOW COULD HE HAVE MADE THIS STATEMENT AND IT NOT BE TRUTH?

OR THIS ONE?


John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day and he saw it, and was glad.

IF ABRAHAM WERE DEAD IN THE GROUND OR SLEEPING HOW DID HE SEE IT? HOW DID HE REJOICE? AND this is not talking about Melchizedek.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.



Of course none of these verses would apply to a pre trib 'church' as they are not accounted as sheep for the slaughter
Romans 8:27 And He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



37. hagiazó
Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 37 hagiázō (from 40 /hágios, "holy") – to regard as special (sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify. See 40 (hagios).


1344. dikaioó
Strong's Concordance
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Definition: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Usage: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").



1392. doxazó ►
Strong's Concordance
doxazó: to render or esteem glorious (in a wide application)
Original Word: δοξάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: doxazó
Phonetic Spelling: (dox-ad'-zo)
Definition: to render or esteem glorious (in a wide application)
Usage: I glorify, honor, bestow glory on.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1392 doksázō (from 1391 /dóksa, "glory") – glorify; properly, to ascribe weight by recognizing real substance (value). See 1391 (doksa).

"Glorifying (1392 /doksázō) God" means valuing Him for who He really is. For example, "giving (ascribing) glory to God" personally acknowledges God in His true character (essence).



Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


WASHED CLEAN, SIN REMOVED, MEANS NO DEATH. I would normally go back and fix everything but I am just going to let it go as it is.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It seems you continue to be confused.

When I talk about the resurrection when believers receive their glorified body (imperishable), that one is a singular one, where ALL believers, (dead AND alive) will receive their new glorified bodies. Your "definition" means nothing. The dead will have been with jesus SINCE they died and they will come to earth with Him. 1 Thess 4 makes that perfectly clear.

No, it seems you are not getting "clear" what 1Th4 is conveying:

The dead will have been with jesus SINCE they died and they will come to earth with Him. 1 Thess 4 makes that perfectly clear.

They will not "come to earth with [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him" UNTIL they first "shall RISE [be RESURRECTED ('to stand AGAIN' [on the earth])," that is, BODILY [like Jesus did!], and then just after that, be "caught up" [IN THE AIR] FOR the "UNIONed-WITH [G4862]" thing that both components (of the "one body" [and no one else!]) will experience / participate in;

IOW, the "G4862 [UNIONed-WITH]" thing happens BY MEANS OF the "SNATCH / RAPTURE" thing (and NOT *PRIOR TO* it, as you are illustrating it to be); This requires their BODIES [the ones that DIED] to be "resurrected ['to stand AGAIN']" PRIOR TO THAT POINT... which is the point being made in 1Th4 (not what *you've* said about this passage).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There is only ONE resurrection for the saved. Read these verses and look for how many resurrections are referenced.

Matt 22:30
Luke 14:14

These are referencing that which will take place "AT/IN the LAST DAY" (that is, AT and FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [age], aka "THE LAST DAY")


[note for the readers: there is no such phrase in the bible saying "in/at the last day OF THIS AGE". NO. That's a MADE UP idea, not a biblical one... though many ppl try to use such a phrase, but which is not accurate, and does not accurately speak of what the Bible itself speaks of... rather, it is a blurring together of *distinct* things spoken of in Scripture]

Acts 24"15

You've never found it curious that in Acts 23:6, Acts 24:15, Acts 24:21, and Acts 26:23 (in the contexts surrounding Paul's arrest and trials before their human / earthly BEMA), that Paul uses the word "resurrection" (and never states it as "the resurrection" [with definite article]), in these contexts?? [same in Acts 17:32, btw... no definite article there either]

1 Cor 15:23

We've gone over this one... going over it again will not convince you.

Believe what you wish, FG2.

 

[kleronomos]

Not physically / literally [YET], in those passages... but "positionally / legally" (AT THE TIME that JESUS HIMSELF WAS)... and pertaining SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])... the SAME ENTITY to whom / of whom "RAPTURE [/SNATCH]" (yet future) SOLELY pertains also! (not to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints)

EXACTLY WHAT VERSES ARE YOU YOURSELF USING TO SPEAK TO THIS INSTANT?

'the SAME ENTITY to whom / of whom "RAPTURE [/SNATCH]" (yet future) SOLELY pertains also! (not to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints)'

WHAT A LOT OF WORDS FOR 'LAST GENERATION'. OBVIOUSLY NONE OF THOSE ARE ALIVE AND REMAINING.

AND TRIB SAINTS ARE JUST SOMETHING ELSE MADE UP SO PLEASE DON'T INCLUDE THEM LIKE THEY ARE SOMEHOW A PART OF GODS TRUTH. EVERY SAVED PERSON WHO IS HERE WHEN SATAN ARRIVES IS A TRIBULATION SAINT. THE ONLY ONES WHO WILL MISS IT ARE THOSE WHO HAVE DIED PREVIOUSLY.

why not physically/literally but POSITIONALLY/LEGALLY

AND WHO ELSE BUT CHRISTIANS would these things be addressed to? tHE UNSAVED?


I don't understand this pushing of THE CHRUCH WHICH IS HIS BODY. Does
'church' have some meaning other that 'the meeting of Christians to worship God' or 'body of Christ have some meaning other than those who believe?


Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:

Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power,

Ephesians 1:20 Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,

Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Ephesians 1:22 And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,

1577. ekklésia ►
Strong's Concordance
ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Original Word: ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekklésia
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-klay-see'-ah)
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Usage: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.



Ephesians 1:23 Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.

THE SAVED ARE AT ONE WITH CHRIST. HE IS IN CHARGE OF ALL OF US. BUT BEING A PART OF THE ASSEMBLY OF CHRISTIANS DOES NOT NEGATE THAT WE, EACH ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WILL STAND ON HIS OWN AT JUDGMENT

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

 

[kleronomos]

This text ^ states, "having-been-buried-with [one word: "syntaphentes" ] Him in THE baptism"

And how does that change anything?

 

[kleronomos]

This ^ is stating A FACT.

So why the rapture?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Once that death comes a resurrection IS ABOUT TO BE

The phrase in BLUE ^ is a Greek word which is legitimately translated "SURE to be / CERTAIN to be" (it is SURE / CERTAIN to be, because it has been prophesied to take place. FOR SURE! )... it doesn't mean, in the next few minutes, hours, days (along those lines having to do with "time")