The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[Pilgrimshope]

Three things mentioned in 1 John 2:18 = 1.) It is the last hour 2.) many antichrists 3) the Antichrist

Christ's ministry was for 3.5 years = the last hour began after His Ascension back to the Father

There is no 7 year period in Revelation

yeah I don’t think there’s a literal seven year period at all , you know my view on the number seven in revelation

I’m saying I don’t think the opening of the seals has anything to do with the antichrist but rather it is what God said he would do if israel broke thier covenenat , the anti Christ is a false messiah. False christ false spirit and false lord.

which seems to enter revelation later after chapter 12

 

[DavidTree]

yeah I don’t think there’s a literal seven year period at all , you know my view on the number seven in revelation

I’m saying I don’t think the opening of the seals has anything to do with the antichrist but rather it is what God said he would do if israel broke thier covenenat , the anti Christ is a false messiah. False christ false spirit and false lord.

which seems to enter revelation later after chapter 12

Both are true, just as the Apostle John stated - first many, then The Antichrist

The Antichrist could of occurred at anytime since the Lord Ascended accept for three Reasons.
#1 - God is in control and has a Plan. That is for His Bride to Preach the Gospel in all the world
#2 - The coming of the wicked one is Restrained by the Holy Spirit in accordance with #1
#3 - God will position earth bound Israel for Judgment and His Coming

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Since the bible frames Jesus snd those resurrected with him at Jesus resurrection as " fitstfruits" the bible is automatically invoking harvest.

What?? The Bible says no such thing.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

I will let you count how many resurrections of the saved are found in this verse.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

And same here. Count how many resurrections you count for just the believers.

Are you getting the picture yet?

2 Thess 2:1,3
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

v.1 refers to the Second Advent and the resurrection/rapture event, obviously occurring together.

 

[DavidTree]

What?? The Bible says no such thing.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

I will let you count how many resurrections of the saved are found in this verse.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

And same here. Count how many resurrections you count for just the believers.

Are you getting the picture yet?

2 Thess 2:1,3
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

v.1 refers to the Second Advent and the resurrection/rapture event, obviously occurring together.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Maybe the Apostle Paul got it wrong, because pre-trib is found everywhere................but not in Scripture.

Oh well - worth a try. At least i can say i tried.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Maybe the Apostle Paul got it wrong, because pre-trib is found everywhere................but not in Scripture.

Oh well - worth a try. At least i can say i tried.

The Bible is so clear about resurrections; 1 for saved and 1 for the unsaved. And since 1 for the saved occurs before the 1 for the unsaved, it is properly called the FIRST resurrection.

 

[DavidTree]

The Bible is so clear about resurrections; 1 for saved and 1 for the unsaved. And since 1 for the saved occurs before the 1 for the unsaved, it is properly called the FIRST resurrection.

i know friend - having some humor with you and the pre-fibbers

AMEN - there are only Two just as Scripture declares and you brought forward

 

[ewq1938]

You may already know this, but in Rev. 19, Christ comes riding a white horse.
In Rev. 6:2, it’s the Antichrist, the great imposter, who, as he always does, tries to imitate Jesus in everything, and so, of course, he also comes on a white horse. What a FAKE!

[2] And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. (Notice the “h” is in lowercase)​

That actually doesn't mean anything. manuscripts are written in all capitals. So He and he are exactly the same in the manuscripts.

 

[Absolutely]

Are you sure? i SEE something else that is coded by the the LORD and speaks of Something and Someone who is Beautiful.

Revelation is not categorically chronological. It repeats Itself giving alternate views of the same things to emphasize points made for His Children to SEE thru the Seven Eyes of HS7.

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

Says what tribe each segment comes out of.
Jewish tribes

 

[DavidTree]

Says what tribe each segment comes out of.
Jewish tribes

Are you sure these are Jews?

 

[Absolutely]

No rapture until HE comes = Firstfruit Resurrection = don't be deceived by a falsehood of multiple raptures/harvests

BELIEVE what the LORD said concerning Harvest = John 4:35
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

Notice how the LORD discounts the "four months remaining for harvest", which the error of pre-trib seeks to establish.

Yes
He comes and raptures his bride

You framed that well

 

[Absolutely]

Are you sure these are Jews?

What do you call Jews out of Jewish tribes?

 

[DavidTree]

What do you call Jews out of Jewish tribes?

What Tree were you grafted into?

 

[Absolutely]

No rapture until HE comes = Firstfruit Resurrection = don't be deceived by a falsehood of multiple raptures/harvests

BELIEVE what the LORD said concerning Harvest = John 4:35
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

Notice how the LORD discounts the "four months remaining for harvest", which the error of pre-trib seeks to establish.

Yeah. Only one correct?
We can omit rev 14 ...correct.

Just ignore it.

 

[Absolutely]

What Tree were you grafted into?

It says what it says.
I do not need it to say something else


You want to fool around with changing it...that is your call

 

[DavidTree]

It says what it says.
I do not need it to say something else


You want to fool around with changing it...that is your call

i fear God - Revelation 22:18-19

Revelation 14 does not say they are Jews according to the flesh.

 

[FreeGrace2]

i know friend - having some humor with you and the pre-fibbers

Esp when one of them claimed that there is "no resurrection" in Rev 20:5. Every translation on bible hub.com refers to the FIRST resurrection.

Maybe they're just fibbing to themselves.

AMEN - there are only Two just as Scripture declares and you brought forward

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes
He comes and raptures his bride

Please show the verse that has Jesus taking His bride to heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

No rapture until HE comes = Firstfruit Resurrection = don't be deceived by a falsehood of multiple raptures/harvests

To be clear to the readers (regarding my previous post): there is only ONE "RAPTURE"... but more than one "harvest"... they are NOT EQUATED!


... in case the readers assumed so, from my post.



[the "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement), for example... NOT SO regarding the EARLIER harvest which is harvested, instead, by means of "TOSSING UP INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff"; We/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" are not the "WHEAT"]

 

[DavidTree]

To be clear to the readers (regarding my previous post): there is only ONE "RAPTURE"... but more than one "harvest"... they are NOT EQUATED!


... in case the readers assumed so, from my post.



[the "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement), for example... NOT SO regarding the EARLIER harvest which is harvested, instead, by means of "TOSSING UP INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff"; We/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" are not the "WHEAT"]

GREAT - It does not change the Order set forth in the Gospels and Apostles writings and Revelation concerning the Second Coming of Christ.

Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months until the harvest’?

I tell you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are ripe for harvest.

Already the reaper draws his wages and gathers a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may rejoice together.
For in this case the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true.
I sent you to reap what you have not worked for; others have done the hard work, and now you have taken up their labor.”

The LORD established one harvest for all who are His unto His Coming.

Now, is the time of Harvest - it began with Christ preaching the Kingdom and will continue unto His Return.

So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Do not be deceived - there is only one Coming of Christ for the Resurrection of the Righteous and the gathering of those who remain.

1 Thess 1:10 "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[FreeGrace2]

To be clear to the readers (regarding my previous post): there is only ONE "RAPTURE"... but more than one "harvest"... they are NOT EQUATED!


... in case the readers assumed so, from my post.



[the "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement), for example... NOT SO regarding the EARLIER harvest which is harvested, instead, by means of "TOSSING UP INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff"; We/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" are not the "WHEAT"]

The only real issue is about resurrections, not "harvests". That's just a distraction.