The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

In order to correctly SEE what is taking place in Revelation we must be obedient to the word of God always refer back to Matthew 24, 1&2 Thess, 1 John 2:18-19 , 1 Timothy 4:1

1 Thess 1:10 - "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

1.) Wait for His Coming
2.) the Resurrection
3.) Delivered from the wrath of the Lamb

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

Clearly not = stop looking for a rapture = God did not tell us to look for a rapture and HE never said pre-trib = NEVER.

"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

1.) waiting and LOOKING for JESUS = HIS COMING
2.) the Resurrection = JESUS the firstfruits and those at His Coming
3.) Deliverance from the wrath of the LAMB

Idoatry is when we place our desire BEFORE the LORD's WILL

Absolutely · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

Jesus went to paradise after his death.

It says he preached the gospel to those in prison.

It says he " took captivity captive"
It says the patriarchs were seen walking in jerusalem.

It says Jesus is firstfruits.

The first resurrection is Jesus as firstfruits along with the patriarchs that rose from the dead and includes main harvest....the rapture.

All that is first resurrection.

Absolutely · Oct 25, 2021

DavidTree said:

Rev 20.

I need you to show me how the first resurrection as you call it is a day after the second coming with the dead in christ NOT MEETING Jesus in the air.

walknlight · Oct 25, 2021

Hi!

DavidTree said:

You have this wrong friend, I look to the coming of our King in all His Glory....
Its not about me.....ITS All about God and His Christ....
thought I told you......

DavidTree said:

AGREED!
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

God Bless!

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

Absolutely said:

Who said - "the day after His Coming' = not me = nope = never

Revelation 19 & 20 are chapters in a book - they are the same event.

walknlight · Oct 25, 2021

Absolutely said:

So the "First ressurrection" is not "complete" until Rev 19,20?

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

And, if you carefully read my posts = this is exactly what i have always said = it is impossible for me to be wrong if i keep my knees and heart bowed at the feet of JESUS.

Everyone who violate the Eternal Commandment are in sin:

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22

The LORD intentionally, leaves out the rapture in Revelation because HE knew the idolatry that would take place in the hearts of His People.

Follow the words of the LORD in Matthew 24 which is testified to by the Apostles in 1 & 2 Thess, 1 Timothy 4:1, 1 John 2:18-19

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

It does not occur until Rev 19& 20 nd it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to occur before then because GOD said so in chapters 6, 7, 14

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

Rapture cannot and will not occur until the RESURRECTION as clearly stated in 1 Thess 4 and Revelation 19 & 20

Remember that 19 & 20 are chapters designated in a book = they are not separate events.

walknlight · Oct 25, 2021

DavidTree said:

Agreed!

But you are not reading Absolutely's posts.....(or not taken the brother seriously)
The Christ being the First Fruit, does indeed speaks of different harvests...

God Bless!

walknlight · Oct 25, 2021

DavidTree said:

This is where we differ.....
I believe the Apostles are speaking of 2 different events......

God Bless...

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

NO - there is only one Harvest = "Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest." John 4:35

pre-trib is built upon many errors including "multiple harvests" = the LORD destroyed that myth, error and lie.

There is only One Harvest of Souls which began with His Resurection and continues unto His Coming.

The completion of this One Harvest continues unto Rev 19 & 20

DavidTree · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

What two different events and how do you see, in their words and not yours, how they differ

FreeGrace2 · Oct 25, 2021

Absolutely said:

Your smokescreen doesn't work. Please quit dodging the issue.

I've given you the verses that SAY, and SAY clearly

1. there is a single resurrection for the saved. Acts 24:15
2. After Christ's resurrection, as firstfruits, THEN, "those who belong to Him" are resurrected, in that single resurrection. This is all believers from Adam forward. 1 Cor 15:23
3. The Second Advent and "gathering (rapture) occur together AFTER the Trib. 2 These 2:1,3
4. The resurrection of martyrs from the Trib are raised to life (resurrected) and reign with Christ. Rev 20:5 describes this as the FIRST resurrection. Acts 24:15 indicates 2 resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

And here's a bonus verse for you to consider:

Acts 3:21 - He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he proised long ago through his holy prophets. NIV previous edition.

This is the current NIV -
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

New Living Translation
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Contemporary English Version
But Jesus must stay in heaven until God makes all things new, just as his holy prophets promised long ago.
International Standard Version
He must remain in heaven until the time of universal restitution, which God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets.

Here are the more common translations:

English Standard Version
whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
Berean Study Bible
Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Berean Literal Bible
whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age.
King James Bible
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So, it it "receive" or "remain"?

The Greek word, according to my lexicon, has: "to retain, contain".

The point is that Jesus is received IN heaven UNTIL the times of restoration. That would be when Jesus returns at the Second Advent.

So, please address these verses and prove that they don't help my view.

FreeGrace2 · Oct 25, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
Even though the Bible very plainly calls it the First resurrection.

walknlight said:

The Bible does not tell us that any of those who raised back to life, including Lazarus himself, received a resurrection body. That would make all of them immortal, for that body cannot die.

Every one of those mentioned in Scripture during Jesus' time on earth who came back to life died again. So we cannot call that a resurrection in the sense of what Paul describes in 1 Cor 15. Not even the 2 witnesses who come back to life after 3.5 days.

In Acts 24:15 Paul says there is a resurrection of the saved and of the unsaved. One each, iow.

In 1 Cor 15:23 Paul says that after Christ's firstfruits resurrection (He received a resurrection body), THEN, "those who belong to Him".

So there are several verses that specifically indicate just 1 resurrection where believers receive their new immortal bodies.

FreeGrace2 · Oct 25, 2021

Absolutely said:

Then why do you keep making up stuff?

The dead in Christ don't "meet Him in the air". Aren't you familiar with 1 Thess 4. The dead come with him and they meet the living believers in the air.

FreeGrace2 · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

The word 'harvest' is misleading. let's just stay with 'resurrection'.

In Acts 24:15 there is one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.

1 Cor 15:23 places the one resurrection of the saved "when He comes".

2 Thess 2:1,3 shows that the Second Advent and gathering (rapture) occur at the same time.

Where am I wrong?

Absolutely · Oct 25, 2021

walknlight said:

Since the bible frames Jesus snd those resurrected with him at Jesus resurrection as " fitstfruits" the bible is automatically invoking harvest.

Harvest is 4 parts.
Firstfruits
Main
Corners
Gleaners

all the first resurrection due to "firstfruits" component

Absolutely · Oct 25, 2021

DavidTree said:

NO - there is only one Harvest = "Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest." John 4:35

pre-trib is built upon many errors including "multiple harvests" = the LORD destroyed that myth, error and lie.

There is only One Harvest of Souls which began with His Resurection and continues unto His Coming.

The completion of this One Harvest continues unto Rev 19 & 20

Rev 14 debunks that totally.

Hands down debunks it. Big time

The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

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