The Apostasy

[luigi]

Christ crucified is the missing message along with many other blasphemies.
You might want to give a listen to The emergent church.
Evangelical pastors have decreased by 48% since 2010 giving way to a false gospel.

As I have stated here in several posts; the Lord provides us numerous cross references in His Word to understand what is being referred to. If we know the man of sin is another term for the Antichrist, which is another term for the beasts mouth, which is another term for the little horn of the beast, which is another term for the abomination of desolation; we can then correlate the data the Lord provides us to understand what is being described. Rather than dogma, I have the Word of God and the correlations He provides to understand that the lie people will accept in association with the man of sin, who rises along with the beast, is tied with the events in Revelation 8 & 9.
And as I have also posted here, the events in Revelation 8, prior to the opening of the bottomless pit that shall bring about the rise of the beast along with the beasts mouth, aka the abomination of desolation, correlate with the Olivet discourse in which famines, wars, and pestilences are occurring prior to the abomination of desolation's appearance. Once again this is my knitting together the correlation in scriptures the Lord provides us to understand what is going on and why.

 

[Corban]

You are placing the falling away in the wrong time frame. Paul was speaking of the "falling away" in his lifetime. The man of sin was alive being restrained when Paul wrote.

A more modern version makes it easier to understand:

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.

The man would have perished long ago.

I doubt it. The revealing of the man of sin is connected with our gathering to the Lord and His "parousia" - His presence in the clouds.

 

[luigi]

Good morning everyone,

Rather than listening to a lot of unsubstantiated dogmas, and twisting's on the Word from God, look to correlations in the Word that the Lord provides throughout the bible to understand what is going on, and why it is going on.

Therefore to put this topic back on track about the lie that the man of sin will advocate that shall bring about the falling away of many currently claiming faith in Christ;... in addition to the correlations between the events in the Olivet discourse and those in Revelation 8 & 9; 12 & 13, the Lord also provides us correlations about the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit with that of the two witnesses in Revelation 11, with these ensuing events.

As the Lord informs us about His two witnesses who are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks who stand before the God of the whole earth (Revelation 11:4), whom the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit shall make war with and kill (Revelation 11:7); we then see these same two olive trees in Zechariah 4:3, who are the two anointed ones who stand before the God of the whole earth (Zechariah 4:14).

In the very next chapter we then see description of a curse that goes over the face of the whole earth (Zechariah 5:3), in which sits a woman who represents wickedness (Zechariah 5:7-8). If we then were to assess this event occurring at the same time in which the two olive trees who stand before the God of the whole earth are seen in Zechariah 4, and are testifying in Revelation 11, when the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit/the sea is around, we would understand the woman who sits in Zechariah 5:7, whose policies that go over the face of the whole earth and are a curse to the earth (Zechariah 5:3), and represent wickedness (Zechariah 5:8), as those of the great whore Babylon who sits atop of the beast (Revelation 17:3).

As you will note in the previous paragraph I underlined and highlighted in bold the description of the curse that goes over the face of the whole earth that is in association with the beast and his policies. This same curse that shall go over the face of the whole earth in association with the beast and the great whore Babylon, we see the environmental results of where the economic polices of the curse has devoured the earth (Isaiah 24:6), utterly breaking it down, dissolving it, and moving it exceedingly (Isaiah 24:19), and causing the earth to reel to and fro like a drunkard (Isaiah 24:20). The good news here folks is that the curse that goes over the face of the whole earth, which is the beasts policies upon which the great whore Babylon sits, shall fall, never to rise again (Isaiah 24:20), when the Lord returns at the conclusion of the dragon, the beast, and the beasts mouth/the man of sins 42 months in power.

The Lord will then commence to reign (Revelation 11:15), with the Lord's servants then be rewarded, while the Lords wrath falls upon those who have been destroying the earth (Revelation 11:18 & Isaiah 24:21).

Everyone here has a choice to make, whether to believe the numerous substantiated correlations in the Word the Lord provides us to know what the situation being described is, and why it is, or to choose a lie of unsubstantiated dogmas that deny numerous scriptures the Lord provides us.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Zechariah 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Zechariah 4:17 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Zechariah 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Isaiah 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isaiah 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ How do you see the following "fitting in" ?


Isaiah 40:10 - "Behold, the Lord GOD comes with might, and His arm establishes His rule. His reward is with Him, and His recompense [H6468 - His work] accompanies Him."

Isaiah 62:11 - "Behold, the LORD has proclaimed to the ends of the earth, “Say to Daughter Zion: See, your Savior comes! Look, His reward is with Him, and His recompense [H6468 - His work] goes before [H6440 - faces] Him.”

 

[MattforJesus]

With a great falling away set to occur when the man of sin comes around (2 Thessalonians 2), I was hoping to get some opinions on what the truth is that a billion plus individuals will refuse to love is, and what the lie is that they will instead choose over the truth?

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The saints will not be gathered unto Christ until the man of sin claims to be God by harnessing the power of nature and evolving to be greater and spiritual.

The falling away is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel which the nations come together as one and stop the preaching of the Gospel world wide.

This allows the man of sin to be able to work in the world to deceive all people who do not love God.

The Bible warns the saints of the new age movement and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult and evolution which they believe people are still evolving to be greater and spiritual which they do not acknowledge a personal God but honor the God of forces.

The time will come when the world will not endure sound doctrine but want to hear the Bible according to their own lusts the new age movement.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

What withholds the man of sin is the condition of the world in response to the truth which the nations governments stopped the preaching of the Gospel and a hate crime to preach it for three and one half years which at the end of the three and one half years the man of sin claims to be God.

Sin already exists in the world but God allows it to go on until the man of sin is revealed and then He will defeat the man of sin which the devil is on a leash and cannot deceive the world until the nations come together and stop the preaching of the truth.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

When the falling away occurs war will break out in heaven and the devils are cast to earth which they deceive all people who do not love the truth which the earth becomes the habitation of devils, and the cage of every hateful and foul bird.

The new age movement will happen at the latter times which it is out now which will deceive the world to cause them to believe in no God and that people are still evolving as they try to establish a kingdom on earth believing that it is the kingdom in the Bible.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ V.2 reads "IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative; G1764 - enestēken / enistémi ]"... (not "is at hand").


So what is it that the false-conveyors would be saying (to them) here [Subject of v.2], that would be convincing to them to (wrongly) believe/be persuaded about?

Nothing about "rapture" at all. [v.2]



Paul is bringing THAT Subject to bear on the problem/issue.


____________


[Also... Paul repeats the SEQUENCE 3x in 2Th2: Color-coded chart POST--page 15--Post #290 (different thread)]
https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095977


[2Th2 explanation POST--page 15 - Post #289 (different thread)]
https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095956

 

[BenjaminN]

The Church's Apostasy of Humanism = Idolatry of the second commandment, to love your neighbour as yourself, being elevated above the first commandment, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.

 

[JaumeJ]

In loving by the true love of God given we will honor our Maker first for loving our neighbor according to the Word would necessitate we love our Father in heaven.

If people go off halfcocked with a worldly love for others this is not according to the true gift of love from above. God bless.

 

[Blik]

When I made a study of demon possession and today's exorcist I learned that demon possession happens only when a person accepts sin in their life. Today's churches are more and more lenient about sin in its members. We make it more important to not be self righteous, and there is much talk about the fact that we are not saved through obedience. There is little taught about the ways we live when we are saved and live through Christ. As we let ourselves have little sins, excusing ourselves, they grow.

Also, more and more governments are taking over lives. In the last 100 years there are more and more genocides. I think everyone should make a study of the way that Hitler turned many every day Germans into murderers.

Also, our family is breaking down. It should be the base of all civilization. Sex should be part of marriage, but in today's world that is true only of the remnant who worship the Lord. Even in our schools, they are taught that homosexual unions are to be accepted, the Lord tells us they should not be accepted. It is almost impossible to find a book or movie without either a murder or illicit sex.

When our children are still babies their minds have already been filled with TV illustrating sin to them, training their subconscious memory.

 

[Yahshua]

So here's my study of the Apostasy.

1) Context

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


So the context of Paul's letter at this section is to correct the timing of the Gathering to the Messiah. Many were saying that the great day had already passed; that they missed it.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 [brackets mine]
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a [apostasia] first, and that man of lawlessness be revealed, the son of perdition;


Q: What day shall not come?
A: The great day when the Messiah gathers the brethren.


Thus...

The gathering to Messiah shall not come except AFTER the apostasia and The Lawless One is revealed.



2) Terminology

Q: Apostasia. What does it mean?

A: Compound word from "apo" (away from) and "stasis"/"histémi" (standing). So it means a leaving or departure, from a previous standing or status; a falling off, so "rebellion" is not quite an accurate description. It more so means to stray. The same Greek word is used in Acts 21:21 and is translated as "forsake", so in context, it means a departure from the original faith. To stray away from the truth.


Thus...

The gathering to Messiah shall not come except AFTER the departure from the original faith occurs and The Lawless One is revealed.



3) Details

2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Note 1: There are two Greek words used in the NT translated as "temple"...

- hieron (used to represent the physical structure; the house of prayer)

- naon (used to represent the body as a vessel)


Note 2: Paul told the Corinthians that their bodies were the [naon] of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19)


Note 3: Paul uses the word "naon" in his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians, as in "so that he as God sitteth in the naon of God,"


Thus...

The Lawless One will take residence in the hearts of followers, like what happened to Judas. This causes them to depart from the original faith.



4) Support

2 Thessalonians 2:5
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?


There's no evidence of Paul explaining these things in Thessalonica (Acts 17), but if we assume that Paul's gospel was the same everywhere we can get an idea of what he may have said by reading his farewell to the Ephesians:


Acts 20:29-31 [brackets mine]
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away [apospao] disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.


Apospao - a compound word from "apo" (away from) and "spao" (draw/pull). It has the same root as apostasy.


Thus...

It's likely Paul gave the same warning to the Thessalonians as he did to the Ephesians; that as soon as he leaves wolves in sheep clothing would start to pervert the gospel and corrupt his teachings. Even this matter about when the Messiah would arrive was one such teaching that was being perverted. Paul warned them this would happen. The Messiah's parable of the sower was being fulfilled (Luke 8:12)



5) Brief Conclusion

2 Thessalonians 2:6
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


"And now you know" means that Paul JUST explained what it was that was (at the time) holding up the Messiah's return


Thus...

What's holding up the process that ultimately leads to the Messiah's gathering is The Lawless One must enter the hearts of followers and they must depart from the original faith they were taught. This happens first.



6) How? Why?

2 Thessalonians 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


This is probably the most butchered translation in all of scripture.

- (mysterion anomias) = Secret/covert lawlessness (context: without God's law)

- (ede energeitai) = already energized/active

- (mono) = only

- (ho) = the one

- (katecho) = holding fast; keeping

- (arti) = now; presently

- (heos) = until

- (ek) = out of

- (mesou) = midst

- (ginomai) = complete; accomplished


The subject of this verse is the secret/covert lawlessness (i.e. mystery of iniquity). It remains the subject of the verse until the end of the verse. It's a genderless concept, but the Greek renders "it" as a "he" like it does for genderless concepts in many other passages. So the passage is more accurately rendered:

...[because] secret lawlessness [is] already energized; the one and only holding/keeping/maintaining presently until out of the midst [it] be.


Thus...

What's holding up the process that ultimately leads to the Messiah's gathering is The Lawless One must enter the hearts of followers and they must depart from the original faith they were taught. This happens first because secret/covert lawlessness is already active now (in Paul's time); it's the one and only thing that maintains/keeps up this departure from the faith until it's completely removed.

This covert movement of lawlessness was already fomenting during the lives of the apostles in the first century. This is why we have messages like:


Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Jude was urgently writing to followers to fight hard for the original faith they were taught by the apostles. The departure from the true faith had already begun and it was due to a covert lawlessness brought in by wolves in sheep clothing. This ties directly to the Messiah's Olivet Discourse when He prophesied that many would come in His name and mislead many...which ties directly to the 1st seal of Revelation: The Rider of the White Horse. Again, these wolves were entering in the first century.

Paul says the lie will take hold because many have no love of the truth (i.e. to be lawful, if we follow the context) but rather continue to live lives of unrighteousness instead of changing their ways. So the Living God sends them strong delusion that supports the lie.



7) What then?

2 Thessalonians 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Thus...

After The Lawless One enters the hearts of believers and they depart from the original faith the lawless will be revealed whom the Messiah will slay with the breath of his mouth and the brightness of His coming. This ties directly to Revelation 19 when the Messiah destroys the beast and his army with the sword of His mouth.

 

[JaumeJ]

I believe it is safe, even healthy, to say apostasy began before our Lord was transfigured and ascended.

Any time a doctrine is taught as from our Father when it is not, is apostasy. There were false brethren then, and it certainly abounds on this day, at this moment.

 

[Blik]

In loving by the true love of God given we will honor our Maker first for loving our neighbor according to the Word would necessitate we love our Father in heaven.

If people go off halfcocked with a worldly love for others this is not according to the true gift of love from above. God bless.

The apostacy of the church through misinterpreting scripture is small potatoes compared the the rampant apostacy that we see today.

 

[luigi]

Thus...

What's holding up the process that ultimately leads to the Messiah's gathering is The Lawless One must enter the hearts of followers and they must depart from the original faith they were taught. This happens first.

Spot on. One example of Apostasy today I believe can be seen where we are supposed to love our neighbor, but also love to hear the words of hate at some politicians hate rallies. In effect, these individuals have exchanged their faith in love for their neighbor, for hate for their neighbor.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

With a great falling away set to occur when the man of sin comes around (2 Thessalonians 2), I was hoping to get some opinions on what the truth is that a billion plus individuals will refuse to love is, and what the lie is that they will instead choose over the truth?

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Be warned. These things are already in place - Today. Excepted for the revealed part.

 

[luigi]

Be warned. These things are already in place - Today. Excepted for the revealed part.

Good morning Nebuchadnezzer, I agree that the basics for the man of sin to appear are somewhat already in place, as I explained in several posts here how the Lord provides us with correlations in scriptures in order to better understand what is being referred to in other scriptures. For example, I explained how most of us recognize the man of sin to represent the Antichrist. Additionally, this individual has other aliases in scriptures, such as the beasts mouth, the little horn of the beast, the abomination of desolation, among others.
Therefore, recognizing these other aliases representing the man of sin; events then transpiring in scriptures in regards to this individual and the beast, would shed greater light on what the truth is that a billion plus currently professing themselves as Christian individuals will refuse to love is, and what the lie is that they will instead choose over the truth. This one billion plus currently professing themselves as Christians is the Apostasy who will join the circa five billion other individuals so that they may take pleasure in not believing the truth.
If you wish to find out what all this means, you can easily go through my posts here on this topic.

 

[PennEd]

Remember that it is not the acts of sin that hold us in bondage, but rather the nature of sin (The Sin Nature).

Hmmm.....
Hebrews 12:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Race of Faith
12 Therefore WE ALSO, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ENSNARES us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

99.9999% who claim to be Christian are eating this "bread of deceit!" Proverbs 20:17, Matthew 7:14

Where did you get this stat? By fabricating out of your own mind, you make yourself out to be God in assigning 99.9999% of Christians to Hell.

 

[luigi]

^ How do you see the following "fitting in" ?


Isaiah 40:10 - "Behold, the Lord GOD comes with might, and His arm establishes His rule. His reward is with Him, and His recompense [H6468 - His work] accompanies Him."

Isaiah 62:11 - "Behold, the LORD has proclaimed to the ends of the earth, “Say to Daughter Zion: See, your Savior comes! Look, His reward is with Him, and His recompense [H6468 - His work] goes before [H6440 - faces] Him.”

Hello TheDivineWatermark, Sorry not to have gotten back to you sooner on this.
I see Isaiah 40:10 where the Lord comes with might, with His reward with Him, and His recompense accompanying Him, correlating with Revelation 11:18, where the Lord returns at the conclusion of the beasts 42 months, where He then rewards His servants the prophets, the saint, them that fear Him, while recompensing them who are destroying the earth. Likewise, the reward from the Lord in Isaiah 62:11 I believe correlates with the Lords return, where He rewards His servants, the prophets, the saints, and all they that fear Him.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[BenjaminN]

 

[BenjaminN]

 

[BenjaminN]

1 John 2 (New King James Version)

4He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.