The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The clouds can be earthly clouds or they can be spiritual clouds. An example of spiritual clouds is found here:
(Heb 12:1) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
And here:
(Jud 1:12) These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Understanding that Jesus returned with the resurrected Old Testament saints, and they are witnesses WITH WATER, it is likely just from that evidence alone, that the clouds that Jesus came in are spiritual clouds. Although that isn't enough to prove it 100%, but, when those verses are combined with the disciples not going to all the cities of Israel until Jesus came back, and Jesus telling the high priest that he would see Jesus return with the clouds.
Not to mention that Jesus said all those things in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled in "this generation". The hour is coming and NOW IS that the dead will hear his voice and be raised. And then there's the obvious point that Jesus returned from the grave with all power and glory, He doesn't have to don't anything to be more powerful or more glorious. The evidence is now overwhelming that the clouds were the Old Testament saints.
(Heb 12:1) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
And here:
(Jud 1:12) These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Understanding that Jesus returned with the resurrected Old Testament saints, and they are witnesses WITH WATER, it is likely just from that evidence alone, that the clouds that Jesus came in are spiritual clouds. Although that isn't enough to prove it 100%, but, when those verses are combined with the disciples not going to all the cities of Israel until Jesus came back, and Jesus telling the high priest that he would see Jesus return with the clouds.
Not to mention that Jesus said all those things in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled in "this generation". The hour is coming and NOW IS that the dead will hear his voice and be raised. And then there's the obvious point that Jesus returned from the grave with all power and glory, He doesn't have to don't anything to be more powerful or more glorious. The evidence is now overwhelming that the clouds were the Old Testament saints.
-
1
- Show all
The bible is an esoteric book, the deeper meanings, those things that are outside of I'm a sinner and I need a savior, are hidden from the world in bread crumbs. Nobody can just pick up a bible and figure it out, it has to be here a little there a little.
The deeper truths are discovered by believing every single word of the bible EXACTLY as it's written. Then and only then can we, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, begin to understand the deep stuff. It's not that the Holy Spirit just says hey this the meaning of the mystery, He doesn't work that way, He does it by bringing bible verses to your mind and allows you to see how these two apparently unrelated verses actually fit together hand in glove.
A perfect personal example of this is the 1000 year reign. Daniel says the just and the unjust are raised together and so does Jesus. But Revelation SEEMS TO SAY that the just are raised first and then the unjust are raised a thousand years later. The two APPARENTLY don't agree and that's where the secret is REVEALED.
If we come to this apparent contradiction and start twisting the words to make it work.... then the mystery is still hidden and can NEVER be found out that way.
The deeper truths are discovered by believing every single word of the bible EXACTLY as it's written. Then and only then can we, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, begin to understand the deep stuff. It's not that the Holy Spirit just says hey this the meaning of the mystery, He doesn't work that way, He does it by bringing bible verses to your mind and allows you to see how these two apparently unrelated verses actually fit together hand in glove.
A perfect personal example of this is the 1000 year reign. Daniel says the just and the unjust are raised together and so does Jesus. But Revelation SEEMS TO SAY that the just are raised first and then the unjust are raised a thousand years later. The two APPARENTLY don't agree and that's where the secret is REVEALED.
If we come to this apparent contradiction and start twisting the words to make it work.... then the mystery is still hidden and can NEVER be found out that way.
Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement immediately after the tribulation, dissolving this earth by his "Fire"
2 Thess 1:7-8, Malachi 3:2, 1 Cor 3:13, 2 Peter 3:10
There wont be a physical earth to have a fairy tale 1,000 year kingdom on.
Sorry to ruin your Millennial Kingdom party, its gonna be the eternal kingdom, New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, at the return of Jesus Christ
Chosen People? Romans 9:6-8
Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed!
2 Thess 1:7-8, Malachi 3:2, 1 Cor 3:13, 2 Peter 3:10
There wont be a physical earth to have a fairy tale 1,000 year kingdom on.
Sorry to ruin your Millennial Kingdom party, its gonna be the eternal kingdom, New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, at the return of Jesus Christ
Chosen People? Romans 9:6-8
Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed!
This a good passage for the timing of the "Son of man coming" for anyone who's interested.
(Luk 17:24) For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
In Matthew 28:3 were are told the angel of the Lord, which can only be Jesus him self, descending from heaven and rolling back the stone that covered his empty tomb. His countenance was like LIGHTNING. So picture Jesus descending from heaven with the brightness of his countenance looking like lightning.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
(Luk 17:24) For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
In Matthew 28:3 were are told the angel of the Lord, which can only be Jesus him self, descending from heaven and rolling back the stone that covered his empty tomb. His countenance was like LIGHTNING. So picture Jesus descending from heaven with the brightness of his countenance looking like lightning.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
All three chapters are connected. But with prophecies one must expect unrelated topics to be juxtaposed with each other, as well as near and far events appearing alongside each other. So one must compare Scriptures and then put them in proper sequence. Verse 7 and verse 8 are separated by over 2000 years, with v 7 being a prophecy of the crucifixion of Christ and v 8 a prophecy applicable to the Second Coming of Christ.
-
1
- Show all
What do you do with the following, Truth7t7?
========================================
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. (This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Satan Cast into the Lake of Fire
When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
========================================
In the context above, there are six references to a thousand years:
1). Satan bound in the Abyss for a thousand years
2). Satan sealed in the Abyss so that he is not able to deceive the nations during that thousand years
3). The great tribulation saints are resurrected and reign with Christ for a thousand years
4). The rest of the dead (unrighteous) don't resurrect until the thousand years are completed
5). The second death has no power over those who take part in the first resurrection and reign with Christ a thousand years
6). When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from the Abyss and will once again deceive mankind
=======================================
According to the context above, it is overly apparent that there is going to be a thousand year period which will ensue following Christ's return to the earth to end the age. To deny that there will be a thousand year period, would be to blatantly ignore God's word. The only way that you can get rid of a literal thousand year period, is if you symbolize or allegorize the reference to a thousand years.
And because you are denying it, I'm guessing that you are among the group who rationalizes the reference to a thousand years, by comparing it to Psalm 50:10 and applying the symbolic meaning of "God owning cattle on a thousand hills" to the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20:1-7.
In any case, the fact remains that the words "a thousand years" is mentioned six times. And the only way that you can get rid of the plain literal meaning of the scripture, is by falsely interpreting it in the symbolic sense.
And for those who would cite Satan being bound when Christ was crucified, that does not fit with Satan being cast into the Abyss and restricted in there so that he cannot deceive the nations during that thousand year period. It is not until the end of the thousand years that he is released to perform one last rebellion, after which cast he is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown into a thousand years earlier.
If you read it in its plain literal meaning, which is the correct way to ready it, the thousand years are literal.
========================================
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. (This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Satan Cast into the Lake of Fire
When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
========================================
In the context above, there are six references to a thousand years:
1). Satan bound in the Abyss for a thousand years
2). Satan sealed in the Abyss so that he is not able to deceive the nations during that thousand years
3). The great tribulation saints are resurrected and reign with Christ for a thousand years
4). The rest of the dead (unrighteous) don't resurrect until the thousand years are completed
5). The second death has no power over those who take part in the first resurrection and reign with Christ a thousand years
6). When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from the Abyss and will once again deceive mankind
=======================================
According to the context above, it is overly apparent that there is going to be a thousand year period which will ensue following Christ's return to the earth to end the age. To deny that there will be a thousand year period, would be to blatantly ignore God's word. The only way that you can get rid of a literal thousand year period, is if you symbolize or allegorize the reference to a thousand years.
And because you are denying it, I'm guessing that you are among the group who rationalizes the reference to a thousand years, by comparing it to Psalm 50:10 and applying the symbolic meaning of "God owning cattle on a thousand hills" to the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20:1-7.
In any case, the fact remains that the words "a thousand years" is mentioned six times. And the only way that you can get rid of the plain literal meaning of the scripture, is by falsely interpreting it in the symbolic sense.
And for those who would cite Satan being bound when Christ was crucified, that does not fit with Satan being cast into the Abyss and restricted in there so that he cannot deceive the nations during that thousand year period. It is not until the end of the thousand years that he is released to perform one last rebellion, after which cast he is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown into a thousand years earlier.
If you read it in its plain literal meaning, which is the correct way to ready it, the thousand years are literal.
-
1
- Show all
Zec 13:1 (KJV) In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
When does verse one and two happen, at the time of Christ or 2000 years later?
Zec 13:2 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
When does verse one and two happen, at the time of Christ or 2000 years later?
Zach 13:1 is the same eternal river of life as seen in Zach 14:8 below and Revelation 22:1-5
Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
-
1
- Show all
Doesn't mean God hated them or made himself their enemy. Did you know that when Israel went through the land that the descendants of Esau occupied God told them not to bother them because He, God Almighty, had given the offspring of Esau that land? It is true. God gave Esau or at least his descendants land and protected them. At least until they had become evil.