The Abomination of Desolation
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You know what bro, this is a great post! No wonder we agree on things. We are right. 
The Josephus thing im so sick and tired of hearing about it, the Ad70 destruction was devastating no doubt, but lets not get carried away here. It was NOT the worst time in human history, by any stretch of the imagination. One can make teh argument it was the worst time Israel had ever faced, but I can say with confidence that they have faced far worse, for example that certain world war II that happened just recently.
In fact I would say the current war in Syria has been more devastating than the Ad70 destruction of Jerusalem. The details dont match as you say, the people werent well off in Petra.
Btw Bro: Do you believe Matthew 24 is an indicator that we should still keep the sabbath? Or why does it say to pray that it doesn't happen on the Sabbath? Jesus is speaking to His disciples here, who are jews yes, but they also believe in Jesus.
The Josephus thing im so sick and tired of hearing about it, the Ad70 destruction was devastating no doubt, but lets not get carried away here. It was NOT the worst time in human history, by any stretch of the imagination. One can make teh argument it was the worst time Israel had ever faced, but I can say with confidence that they have faced far worse, for example that certain world war II that happened just recently.
In fact I would say the current war in Syria has been more devastating than the Ad70 destruction of Jerusalem. The details dont match as you say, the people werent well off in Petra.
Btw Bro: Do you believe Matthew 24 is an indicator that we should still keep the sabbath? Or why does it say to pray that it doesn't happen on the Sabbath? Jesus is speaking to His disciples here, who are jews yes, but they also believe in Jesus.
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You do whatever you wish. [/QUOTE]
The angel in Daniel 12:4 and 12:9 tells Daniel to go on his way as the events described to him pertain to the end times, at which time knowledge of these events would then increase.
As knowledge of the events described to Daniel in chapters 7 through 12 are only now beginning to be unsealed and understood, I therefore do believe the generation who are to witness all the events in Luke 21, Mark 13, and Matthew 24 correspond to the here and now.
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
The angel in Daniel 12:4 and 12:9 tells Daniel to go on his way as the events described to him pertain to the end times, at which time knowledge of these events would then increase.
As knowledge of the events described to Daniel in chapters 7 through 12 are only now beginning to be unsealed and understood, I therefore do believe the generation who are to witness all the events in Luke 21, Mark 13, and Matthew 24 correspond to the here and now.
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
In Revelation 8 we see the destruction to one third of earths environs.
In Revelation 9 with the opening of the bottomless pit we see various other environmental issues created that in turn has the four released dark side angels influencing the worlds leaders that the solution to the shortage in food for the masses is to utilize their combined military and armed forces totaling 200 million and initiate a global genocide that will over the course of 13 months and one day take the lives of 1/3 of all of earth's populace.
In Revelation 9:20-21 we then see the reason for these plagues in Revelation 8 & 9 attributed to the love mankind has for the works from his hands, thereby indicating industrial pollution as the cause for why all life on earth is threatened prior to Christs return.
Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
In Revelation 9 with the opening of the bottomless pit we see various other environmental issues created that in turn has the four released dark side angels influencing the worlds leaders that the solution to the shortage in food for the masses is to utilize their combined military and armed forces totaling 200 million and initiate a global genocide that will over the course of 13 months and one day take the lives of 1/3 of all of earth's populace.
In Revelation 9:20-21 we then see the reason for these plagues in Revelation 8 & 9 attributed to the love mankind has for the works from his hands, thereby indicating industrial pollution as the cause for why all life on earth is threatened prior to Christs return.
Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
The levels of pollution in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 which are created by the love mankind has for the works from his hands ( through industry), is a relatively modern phenomena. These could not have occurred in the past, prior to the industrial revolution.
All life on earth will be threatened as indicated in Revelation 8 & 9 by the pollution created through industry.
All life on earth will be threatened as indicated in Revelation 8 & 9 by the pollution created through industry.
Thanks for your reply bro.
Josephus, as with other things, may be used as a guide;. But since it is not scripture. Should not be used to determine or prove your theology. That would be having your theology rooted in the words of men, and not the bible. Maccabees is another non scripture writting which I personally have used, as it shows the maccabean revolt. Which was caused by the little horn of dan 8, which I believe is a precurser to the future king of rome which will commit the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 weeks.
I am not M.A.D either..lol Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD as fortold by Daniel, and its desolation will continue until the time aloted (the end of war desolations, which has been present in the middle east since) as per Dan 9 And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
As for Locutis, I have him on ignore also. This topic gets heated. And some people I do not think can handle it with out getting bent out of shape, and he happens to be one of those people in my view (have not spoken for him for a few years now. Maybe he has changed?)
As for roman money, I am Not sure how that relates. As I see it, The mark of the beast will prevent people from buying or selling. I do not see where it will be only from roman money. It says they have no way to buy or sell anything period. Again, as I see it, Nothing the ceasar of rome did in AD 70 fulfills the prophesies concerning to final form of the gentile beast system.
Anyway, Thank you for honest and peaceful discussion
Josephus, as with other things, may be used as a guide;. But since it is not scripture. Should not be used to determine or prove your theology. That would be having your theology rooted in the words of men, and not the bible. Maccabees is another non scripture writting which I personally have used, as it shows the maccabean revolt. Which was caused by the little horn of dan 8, which I believe is a precurser to the future king of rome which will commit the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 weeks.
I am not M.A.D either..lol Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD as fortold by Daniel, and its desolation will continue until the time aloted (the end of war desolations, which has been present in the middle east since) as per Dan 9 And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
As for Locutis, I have him on ignore also. This topic gets heated. And some people I do not think can handle it with out getting bent out of shape, and he happens to be one of those people in my view (have not spoken for him for a few years now. Maybe he has changed?)
As for roman money, I am Not sure how that relates. As I see it, The mark of the beast will prevent people from buying or selling. I do not see where it will be only from roman money. It says they have no way to buy or sell anything period. Again, as I see it, Nothing the ceasar of rome did in AD 70 fulfills the prophesies concerning to final form of the gentile beast system.
Anyway, Thank you for honest and peaceful discussion
Your welcome,,,and thank you
There is something I would need to ask also in regards to what you said of the "little horn" that is this,,,
In Revelation 17:12 the angle states that they(the 10) "have received no kingdom as yet but they will at some future time. In Revelation 5:5-12 it mentions the Lamb(Jesus) who "was slain" so it speaks of the crucifixion as "past tense" so it is written "after Christ was crucified"...
Back to the dialog in Revelation 17:12 and the angel makes it clear that the ten horns have not received their kingdoms as yet(little horn rises after the 10? Daniel 8:24(after)...
In fact from Revelation 17 it can be detemined that at the time the Revelation of Jesus Christ was given the beast(8n) was in the pit and not in the world then present. r the 7th(Rev. 17:10) so from the time frame of Revelation would not the "little horn" according to the angel not have existed yet?
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The little horn in Dan 8 came from Greece if I am not mistaken. Not rome.. Is this what you were referencing?
In dan 8, the little horn is said to come from the goat (greece) who was split into 4. Out of the 4 came the little horn.
This is antiochus epiphanies, the greece ruler who trampled jerusalem and slaughtered a pig in the temple. Commiting the abomination of desolation. And causing sacrifice to cease, because the temple was rendered unclean. (Abomination)
This is a precurser of the bigger little horn of revelation which comes out of the great beast of Rome,
In dan 8, the little horn is said to come from the goat (greece) who was split into 4. Out of the 4 came the little horn.
This is antiochus epiphanies, the greece ruler who trampled jerusalem and slaughtered a pig in the temple. Commiting the abomination of desolation. And causing sacrifice to cease, because the temple was rendered unclean. (Abomination)
This is a precurser of the bigger little horn of revelation which comes out of the great beast of Rome,
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Can you give an example of a worst time for Jerusalem that would fulfil all predictions of Christ about false prophets, famines, wars, signs in heavens, destruction of the temple and abomination?
Nothing in the WWII was even close to all those predictions.
You must also consider that Christ said that all guilt will be punished on this generation. Not on some generation in 1939.
Famines:
"The deserters give the Romans pitful reports of increasing famine in the city and attacks by insurgents performing house-to-house searches for food, beating and torturing those within. The wealthy are robbed and murdered....The victims of famine are dying in countless numbers. Hungry rebels like mad dogs stagger from house to house searching for food. Shoe leather and grass is gnawed on. "
False prophets:
"The populace, especially poor women and children, are persuaded by a "false prophet" to go up to the Temple court to receive deliverance from the Deity. The crowd of about 6,000 climbs onto the porticoes, which are set on fire by the Romans. All perish."
"There were many false prophets at the time, says Josephus, yet people had not paid attention to the genuine signs of destruction: a star resembling a sword standing over the city, a comet, a brilliant light around the altar, a vision of armed battalions in the sky, and voices in the Temple, along with the prophecies of a peasant crying 'Woe to Jerusalem.' "It is impossible for men to escape their fate, even though they foresee it."
Abomination:
"Romans carry standards into the sanctuary at the east gate and sacrifice to them. So much gold has been taken from Temple that the price of gold throughout Syria is halved. The priests are executed by Titus. "
1,000,000 dead:
Number of prisoners taken in the entire war: 97,000. Died during siege: 1,100,000. This large number during the siege was due to the Passover celebration, as Jews from many countries had been in the city for the festival when the siege began. Josephus tells skeptical readers this number is consistent with Cestius' population estimate under Nero.
Temple and Jerusalem destroyed:
Titus orders the whole city and Temple to be razed to the ground, leaving only the tallest towers and a small portion of the wall on the west. The Xth legion is left to garrison Jerusalem.
http://www.josephus.org/FlJosephus2/warChronology7Fall.html
Nothing in the WWII was even close to all those predictions.
You must also consider that Christ said that all guilt will be punished on this generation. Not on some generation in 1939.
Famines:
"The deserters give the Romans pitful reports of increasing famine in the city and attacks by insurgents performing house-to-house searches for food, beating and torturing those within. The wealthy are robbed and murdered....The victims of famine are dying in countless numbers. Hungry rebels like mad dogs stagger from house to house searching for food. Shoe leather and grass is gnawed on. "
False prophets:
"The populace, especially poor women and children, are persuaded by a "false prophet" to go up to the Temple court to receive deliverance from the Deity. The crowd of about 6,000 climbs onto the porticoes, which are set on fire by the Romans. All perish."
"There were many false prophets at the time, says Josephus, yet people had not paid attention to the genuine signs of destruction: a star resembling a sword standing over the city, a comet, a brilliant light around the altar, a vision of armed battalions in the sky, and voices in the Temple, along with the prophecies of a peasant crying 'Woe to Jerusalem.' "It is impossible for men to escape their fate, even though they foresee it."
Abomination:
"Romans carry standards into the sanctuary at the east gate and sacrifice to them. So much gold has been taken from Temple that the price of gold throughout Syria is halved. The priests are executed by Titus. "
1,000,000 dead:
Number of prisoners taken in the entire war: 97,000. Died during siege: 1,100,000. This large number during the siege was due to the Passover celebration, as Jews from many countries had been in the city for the festival when the siege began. Josephus tells skeptical readers this number is consistent with Cestius' population estimate under Nero.
Temple and Jerusalem destroyed:
Titus orders the whole city and Temple to be razed to the ground, leaving only the tallest towers and a small portion of the wall on the west. The Xth legion is left to garrison Jerusalem.
http://www.josephus.org/FlJosephus2/warChronology7Fall.html
Revelation 9:17-19 attributes the means of genocide to what appear to be tanks. But this is only after environmental pollution has created famine conditions in which the worlds leaders decide to enact a global genocide to resolve the issue.
Revelation 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Revelation 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
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I see it different, I see famin caused by many things, Polution, Warming (weather) and other things including overpopulation as we are seeing today.
I see the fire and brimstone as being nukes lauched by nations or another nation against I believe north and south america (which is 1/3 of the earth if we look at it) although I could be wrong..
Which is why these things are not set in stone, and we shoudl not fight to the death as some wish to do over these things.
I see the fire and brimstone as being nukes lauched by nations or another nation against I believe north and south america (which is 1/3 of the earth if we look at it) although I could be wrong..
Which is why these things are not set in stone, and we shoudl not fight to the death as some wish to do over these things.