The Abomination of Desolation
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I'm very sure daily sacrifice has nothing to do with animals but worshiping in truth and spirit.
1. God is not unreasonable- if sacrifices were to be offered daily then people would not work. Weekly is a little reasonable.
2. Day by day doesn't mean daily, it only sets the requirements to be met every time they are to offer the sacrifice.
1. God is not unreasonable- if sacrifices were to be offered daily then people would not work. Weekly is a little reasonable.
2. Day by day doesn't mean daily, it only sets the requirements to be met every time they are to offer the sacrifice.
So you are claiming that the Lord was referring to the then generation in the first century having witnessed all the events described in Mark 13; Luke 21; and Matthew 24; all of which before the end came?
If so, I see you are one who believes the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem as the end that came.
Do you realize that the Jews who remained in Jerusalem in 70 AD, were those who rejected Christ and had exiled all believers from the land of Judea years earlier (Acts 8:1)?
The faithless who were around in Jerusalem in 70AD were those upon whom the wrath of God came down hard upon (1 Thessalonians 2:15). Do you think the Lord in Mark 13; Luke 21; and Matthew 24, was providing warning to the faithless in 70 AD Jerusalem?
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
1 Thessalonians 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
If so, I see you are one who believes the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem as the end that came.
Do you realize that the Jews who remained in Jerusalem in 70 AD, were those who rejected Christ and had exiled all believers from the land of Judea years earlier (Acts 8:1)?
The faithless who were around in Jerusalem in 70AD were those upon whom the wrath of God came down hard upon (1 Thessalonians 2:15). Do you think the Lord in Mark 13; Luke 21; and Matthew 24, was providing warning to the faithless in 70 AD Jerusalem?
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
1 Thessalonians 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
E
Thanks for your reply bro.
Josephus, as with other things, may be used as a guide;. But since it is not scripture. Should not be used to determine or prove your theology. That would be having your theology rooted in the words of men, and not the bible. Maccabees is another non scripture writting which I personally have used, as it shows the maccabean revolt. Which was caused by the little horn of dan 8, which I believe is a precurser to the future king of rome which will commit the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 weeks.
I am not M.A.D either..lol Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD as fortold by Daniel, and its desolation will continue until the time aloted (the end of war desolations, which has been present in the middle east since) as per Dan 9 And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
As for Locutis, I have him on ignore also. This topic gets heated. And some people I do not think can handle it with out getting bent out of shape, and he happens to be one of those people in my view (have not spoken for him for a few years now. Maybe he has changed?)
As for roman money, I am Not sure how that relates. As I see it, The mark of the beast will prevent people from buying or selling. I do not see where it will be only from roman money. It says they have no way to buy or sell anything period. Again, as I see it, Nothing the ceasar of rome did in AD 70 fulfills the prophesies concerning to final form of the gentile beast system.
Anyway, Thank you for honest and peaceful discussion
Josephus, as with other things, may be used as a guide;. But since it is not scripture. Should not be used to determine or prove your theology. That would be having your theology rooted in the words of men, and not the bible. Maccabees is another non scripture writting which I personally have used, as it shows the maccabean revolt. Which was caused by the little horn of dan 8, which I believe is a precurser to the future king of rome which will commit the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 weeks.
I am not M.A.D either..lol Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD as fortold by Daniel, and its desolation will continue until the time aloted (the end of war desolations, which has been present in the middle east since) as per Dan 9 And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
As for Locutis, I have him on ignore also. This topic gets heated. And some people I do not think can handle it with out getting bent out of shape, and he happens to be one of those people in my view (have not spoken for him for a few years now. Maybe he has changed?)
As for roman money, I am Not sure how that relates. As I see it, The mark of the beast will prevent people from buying or selling. I do not see where it will be only from roman money. It says they have no way to buy or sell anything period. Again, as I see it, Nothing the ceasar of rome did in AD 70 fulfills the prophesies concerning to final form of the gentile beast system.
Anyway, Thank you for honest and peaceful discussion
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For the Israeli's not to be worrying about the overflowing scourge because they have an agreement with it, means the overflowing scourge would have been overflowing through some of the other nations in the Southern kingdom/Middle East.
This was not the case in 70 AD.
The Middle East was already subject to Rome and were living in peace; thereby "no overflowing scourge" in those nations at the time.
In contrast: Judeans in 70 AD were in rebellion against Rome and thereby had no agreement with it.
This was not the case in 70 AD.
The Middle East was already subject to Rome and were living in peace; thereby "no overflowing scourge" in those nations at the time.
In contrast: Judeans in 70 AD were in rebellion against Rome and thereby had no agreement with it.
E
I see Jesus saying that the jews will see an abomination which causes desolation in the holy place period. Whenever it is, It will be lterally fulfilled. To say otherwise, makes your perspectively immediatly flawed.
Making a city or nations desolate. And placing an abomination which makes desolate in a holy place are two different things.
So as I said, your trying to ake a spiritual interpretation. I can not do this with prphesy, I must interpret whaty jesus said literally. He said when you see the abomination in the holy place run. It is an event, what you are trying to interpret it with is not an event, it is an ongoing mission which continues.. Again, Huge difference. One is an event which people should see and know they must do something, the other is not an event, and would not be something which we can say as soon as this happens run..
You can not place an abomination which causes desolation in a person. Let alone see it standing there. So this alone should divirt your thinking to understand this cannot be the proper interpretation.
Object, abomination - unclean thing, idol (see hebrew)
which causes abomination (Makes something desolate, or unclean)
Standing in holy place - a sacred place, a literal place. Found in religious temples, namely in this context. The jewish temple. Whatever temple that may be)
Just take what the term means to the people it was written to. And take jesus literally. Try not to add things which are out of context and can not properly render the prophesy fulfilled.
Making a city or nations desolate. And placing an abomination which makes desolate in a holy place are two different things.
So as I said, your trying to ake a spiritual interpretation. I can not do this with prphesy, I must interpret whaty jesus said literally. He said when you see the abomination in the holy place run. It is an event, what you are trying to interpret it with is not an event, it is an ongoing mission which continues.. Again, Huge difference. One is an event which people should see and know they must do something, the other is not an event, and would not be something which we can say as soon as this happens run..
You can not place an abomination which causes desolation in a person. Let alone see it standing there. So this alone should divirt your thinking to understand this cannot be the proper interpretation.
Object, abomination - unclean thing, idol (see hebrew)
which causes abomination (Makes something desolate, or unclean)
Standing in holy place - a sacred place, a literal place. Found in religious temples, namely in this context. The jewish temple. Whatever temple that may be)
Just take what the term means to the people it was written to. And take jesus literally. Try not to add things which are out of context and can not properly render the prophesy fulfilled.
E
The people in the first century did not see all the events in matt 24 or the others. They did even see the events jesus called the birth pangs, or beginning of sorrows. The great tribulation, or the return of jesus because all life would be destroyed if he did not return, In fact that last point was impossible in 70 AD. So why do peole say it was possible?
I now get it and that view supports the idea that Christ doesn't abolish the daily sacrifice but sets it.
The daily sacrifice was not for atonement of sins but it was food sacrifice that was offered to please God.
Num 28:1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Give this command to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Make sure that you present to me at the appointed time my food offerings, as an aroma pleasing to me.’ 3Say to them: ‘This is the food offering you are to present to the Lord: two lambs a year old without defect, as a regular burnt offering each day. 4Offer one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight, 5together with a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah a of the finest flour mixed with a quarter of a hin b of oil from pressed olives. 6This is the regular burnt offering instituted at Mount Sinai as a pleasing aroma, a food offering presented to the Lord. 7The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the Lord at the sanctuary. 8Offer the second lamb at twilight, along with the same kind of grain offering and drink offering that you offer in the morning. This is a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.
But all these being only a prophesy, Jesus doesn't abolish it but fulfills it. And the real fulfillment is us is that we are through the death and resurrection of Christ, a pleasing aroma to God.
Eph 5:1Be imitators of God, therefore, as beloved children, 2and walk in love, just as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant sacrificial offering to God.
2 Cor 2:15For we are to God the sweet aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
Psalms 141: 2May my prayer be set before You like incense, my uplifted hands like the evening offering.
So, Jesus is not the one that abolishes the daily sacrifice according to Daniel's prophesy, it is the antichrist because daily sacrifice is something pleasing to God.
But the strongest argument for this is that taking away daily sacrifice has been shown to be done by the antichrist at least twice in Dan 8 & Dan 11, and every time it has been connected to the abomination that causes desolate as one event.
So it is safe to conclude that in Dan 9, the one that takes away the daily sacrifice and sets the abomination is not Jesus but the antichrist.
The daily sacrifice was not for atonement of sins but it was food sacrifice that was offered to please God.
Num 28:1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Give this command to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Make sure that you present to me at the appointed time my food offerings, as an aroma pleasing to me.’ 3Say to them: ‘This is the food offering you are to present to the Lord: two lambs a year old without defect, as a regular burnt offering each day. 4Offer one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight, 5together with a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah a of the finest flour mixed with a quarter of a hin b of oil from pressed olives. 6This is the regular burnt offering instituted at Mount Sinai as a pleasing aroma, a food offering presented to the Lord. 7The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the Lord at the sanctuary. 8Offer the second lamb at twilight, along with the same kind of grain offering and drink offering that you offer in the morning. This is a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.
But all these being only a prophesy, Jesus doesn't abolish it but fulfills it. And the real fulfillment is us is that we are through the death and resurrection of Christ, a pleasing aroma to God.
Eph 5:1Be imitators of God, therefore, as beloved children, 2and walk in love, just as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant sacrificial offering to God.
2 Cor 2:15For we are to God the sweet aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
Psalms 141: 2May my prayer be set before You like incense, my uplifted hands like the evening offering.
So, Jesus is not the one that abolishes the daily sacrifice according to Daniel's prophesy, it is the antichrist because daily sacrifice is something pleasing to God.
But the strongest argument for this is that taking away daily sacrifice has been shown to be done by the antichrist at least twice in Dan 8 & Dan 11, and every time it has been connected to the abomination that causes desolate as one event.
So it is safe to conclude that in Dan 9, the one that takes away the daily sacrifice and sets the abomination is not Jesus but the antichrist.
E
He talks to people who do not believe in him all the time, He spoke to jews who were disbelieving all over the OT, and promised he would restore them when they repent. part of their repentance is called the time of Jacobs trouble. Which is also known as the time of jacobs trouble. Which is part of the end of the gentile dominion.
So no. I do not see it as a flaw.
What i see as a flaw is you unable to interpret him literally, and thus having to spiritualise a prophesy to make it fit what you believe. This is not only a flaw. But dangerous.
Thats your view. And I can not agree.
Jesus said an object would be placed. I must take jesus at his word. And not twist what he says, and make him say something he never said
You do whatever you wish.
E
Who says we are not in that generation now? Generations can mean many things.
Again I ask, Matt 24 says these events would be so great, all flesh would die if he did not return. Can you tell me what occured in 70 AD that caused all life on earth to be threatened. And when did Christ return? He said in matt 24 he would return at that time, when did it happen?
Again I ask, Matt 24 says these events would be so great, all flesh would die if he did not return. Can you tell me what occured in 70 AD that caused all life on earth to be threatened. And when did Christ return? He said in matt 24 he would return at that time, when did it happen?
