I find it interesting that you attack me yet I have not attacked you. You jumped into a conversation that was not addressed to you. I was in a discussion with EleventhHour. Someone who does not believe in repentance (unlike you apparently). She has so far admitted that there is nothing that a believer can do to lose salvation. And no need to repent. Basically carry on like the world. Now.... Having read all the translations and languages and multiple times...tell me....is EleventhHour correct in her doctrine?
This is the conversation you jumped into. The one you attacked me for. Tell me... Is your doctrine aligned to hers?
Let me set you straight on forum etiquette, before I continue. As a long time member, I know that it is an unwritten rule that a public forum is...public! You simply cannot write specifically to one person in a thread, regardless of whether or not you started it, and think everyone else is not allowed to post. I find it odd after 2 1/2 years in CC, you have not discerned that simple and ordinary procedure in the time you have been here. I've met newbies who believe if they start a thread, or address someone particularly that you can control a thread, or your word rules. If you want to have a private conversation, feel free to send PMs to the person. That's how private conversations are created and maintained. Or you can have a small group of people you chat with in a PM.
Further, Eleventh Hour is my friend. I read the thread from the start, ascertained that you had very faulty theology which you were flogging everyone with. Of course, I am going to defend Eleventh Hour. She has good solid doctrine, and a good knowledge of the Bible, and you were trashing her, saying she had never read the Bible. As for your demands she answer YOUR questions, you never answered mine. How many times have you read the Bible from cover to cover? You also broadly insulted a lot of people, and specifically insulted a lot of people (besides Eleventh Hour), who are also my friends. We do pms all the time. That way we can address certain issues that might be tedious in the main forums.
So, I will speak my mind, talk about theology and how to correctly use hermeneutics, which you ignored, because either you have not read the Bible enough, or because it doesn't support your false doctrines. You start a thread, pretending YOU are saving us with your words of wisdom, which turns out to be bad eisegesis and no knowledge of hermeneutics. And absolutely no understanding of the sovereignty and power of God.
As to Eleventh Hour's doctrine, I have not seen any evidence of antinomianism. The usual complaint of Arminians who probably are much closer to Open Theology,* an out and out heresy. I would agree that we are to repent confess our sins, and obey God. But, I know the Bible is clear about losing our salvation. We simply and absolutely cannot lose what God has done - taken us from darkness to light, from death to life.
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As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved" Eph. 2:1-6
So, it seems you do not understand the above passage at all. I posted verses 4-10, but I see I need to start at the beginning of the chapter. What does this passage clearly say?
Before we are saved:
1. We are dead in our transgressions and sins,
2. We follow the world,
3. We follow the ruler of the kingdom of the air,
4. That spirit is at work in us,
5. That worldly spirit gratifies the cravings of the flesh, and its desires and thoughts.
Conclusion of this section:
6. Because of our sinful and worldly nature we were deserving of God's wrath.
I hope you can agree with me that an unrighteous sinner is worthy of God's wrath? Certainly, that is all of us, before Christ saves us!
Salvation:
1. God loves us (from before the foundation of the world)
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Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves." Eph. 1:1-6
2. Because God is rich in his mercy (mercy = we don't get what we deserve!)
3. God made us alive in Christ, even while we were DEAD in our transgressions. In other words, God saves us first, by making us alive, then we repent of our sins that God points out, usually through the Word of God.
4. We are totally saved by grace. Paul repeats that in verses 8-9 of chapter 2 of Ephesians.
So, we literally go from spiritual death to spiritual life, because of the grace of God. And God has known who we are in him, from before the foundation of the world. I certainly know I could NEVER have saved myself, I was trying hard. But, when God called me, he justified me, and then he told me to repent of my sin. I immediately stopped drinking, which was getting very bad and haven't had a drink in 40 years. I also had other sins to work on. Like impatience, and also my bad temper. I didn't even know that was a sin, until I had been saved for 2 years. Then I read it in the sin list in Gal. 5:19-20:
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The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal. 5:19-20
I renounced all my new age idolatry and witchcraft immediately when I was saved, and my drunkenness, a side effect of playing music in bars and pubs for years. But, do you know how long I worked on my temper? 30 years! I really only got rid of it 10 years ago. That was after constant prayer, seeking God, and confessing my sin to both God and anyone who heard me.
But, I never at any point in my spiritual journey went from life to death. The way Arminians ignore this passage and many other places, like Col. 2:13
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When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions," Col. 2:13
Also, these famous verses from the Roman Road, also reflect that salvation is when God takes us from death to life in him.
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For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23.
So, how many times has God killed you since he first saved you? If you ever died, then I cannot believe you were ever made spiritually alive. God never says he will take us from spiritual life to death, not even your Hebrews 6 passage.
Salvation in Greek is
soso. It means salvation or deliverance. We simply cannot be "un" saved, no matter how we fall. God does not kill his living children. He loves them, which is why they are his. There is no ordo salvos saying we:
Live, then make a mistake or sin and die. God rebrings us to life then we fail for a short time, or long time, we die, and then God brings us back to life. This is a very important image of salvation. God makes us alive, after we were dead. God does not send us back to death, because of anything we do. Although he certainly will grieve if we are not obedient.
God saves us once for all. Hebrew 10 says:
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The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary." Hebrew 10:15-18
God will not remember our sinless acts. But for our own sake, we should confess our sins, and make them right. This myth of antinomianism by people who do not agree with Arminianist interpretations of salvation, is simply a rude insult. Eleventh Hour is not antinomian. I have never met a Baptist, who believes in eternal security, or a Reformed or Calvinist who says once we are saved, we can sin like the devil. For one thing, God took us away from that life, no one wants to go back to that hell. My joy is to obey God. He is the one who made me alive, and born from above. Why would I even consider going back to that filthy pit of iniquity?
So, as someone said earlier, the straw man you created is not based on the lives of real, alive, born from above, Christians. And if someone is sinning willfully, either they were never made alive by the power of
God, or they have not been taught properly!
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