Temple of God - Christians or a physical building in Jerusalem?

[tanakh]

Why does Paul call that temple to be "temple of God"?

Good question. When Paul wrote to the Thessalonians the Temple was still standing and from what he says in his letters
it appears that he thought Christ could return in his lifetime. It could be that he had the existing Temple in mind. Another
explanation could be that he was talking about the Church. Perhaps someone else may have another explanation.

 

[trofimus]

Absolutely ridicilous claim. That priest is unlearned and should not be a priest at all, even atheists arent delusional enough to believe the world has already ended.

Make no mistake, this fake pastor is deceived, and deceiving others.

After watching his full lecture in a seminary, he says that the end has already come theologically, but not chronologically.

Every generation after Christ lived after the history has ended, because after Christ there is nothing more to expect for a Christian, we died to this world.

 

[Quantrill]

I agree that metaphors are metaphors. Not so sure about allegories, what would be some examples of this in the Bible?

My point is that Revelation is apocalyptic literature. Only found in a few places, like Daniel and Ezekiel (Now that is a difficult book to interpret!) and the Apocalypse. Apocalypse in Greek means "unveiling" or "revelation." Hence the English title. It does NOT mean, the end. Or prophesing the end. Now, the end is in there, for sure! But the book is not about signs of the end times. That is pure dispensationalism, which is the scenerio that are the people that keep saying they interpret the Bible literally.

Many times I have watched a thread in here get abducted by a dispensationalist or two. One starts out with some very literal twisting of the Bible, and says it is the literal interpretation. Then, another dispie starts arguing with the first, saying, "No, this means this, not what you said." A big discussion ensues. Then a third dispie gets involved, saying "No, you are both wrong. This is the literal interpretation." I could name names, but I won't. I believe these people are very sincere and saved. But utterly deluded with regards to who has the right "literal" interpretation.

All this nonsense about the rapture, which is so limited in number of times it is in the Bible. Which is to say, zero, or one if you want to twist the verb harpazio into the noun rapture. Which I cannot countenance! The thing that we are looking for, as the disciples were since the time Jesus ascended into heaven, in the early church, that is found quite a few times in the Bible, is the second coming of Jesus Christ. Not the third coming, with a secret one in the middle, or a temple that is not needed, nor prophesied. (More another time about the temple prophesied in Ezekiel, which never happened because of the disobedience of the Jews in captivity!)

We are not looking for interpretations of symbols, except as the Bible interprets them. Jews who don't believe in Jesus are not saved, we need to reach out, not just to them, but to every lost soul. And then, Jesus will come again, and THAT - JESUS RETURNING, to set the heavens and the world in order - THAT!! Is the event that matters. All the rest is so much dross, and mostly interpreted poorly.

The only allegory that comes to mind is (Gal. 4:22-46). And it is specifically called an allegory in vs. (24). But even though Paul gives the allegory, that which he drew the allegory from was literally true also.

The word 'apocalyptic' is used in the English language to speak to end time events. That is a justified use of the word.

I am a dispensationalist, so I disagree with you on what you say concerning the book of Revelation, the Rapture, the temple and probably many other things.

As to all being dross except what you believe is an unfair statement. Dross to you perhaps but to those who study the dispensational view point.

Quantrill

 

[luigi]

In Ezekiel 8 & 9, the temple, and its courts are defiled by the residents of Jerusalem.
By the North gate of the temple the women are crying for the goddess Tammuz, and by the east gate of the temple the men are facing east and worshiping the sun.

Realizing these descriptions are metaphors for the unjust and immoral actions the people in Jerusalem are doing (Ezekiel 9:9), I then further realize the temple depiction is likewise a representation, not of a stone building, but of the temple which are the people in Jerusalem defiling themselves with their unjust actions.

Ezekiel 9:9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

Likewise, when a man with a measuring line in Zechariah 2:1-2 goes to measure the breadth and length of Jerusalem, I realize this measuring of Jerusalem is in regards to the actions of its residents.

Zechariah 2:1 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand. 2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.

So now we come to Revelation 11:1 where John is commanded to measure the temple of God, and the alter, and them that worship therein. Is John taking a literal measurement of breadth and length?
If this is a literal measurement of breadth and length; how do you think John measured the worshipers within the temple and its alter? And how are all the worshipers inside its alter? If the alter were a physical structure, it would have to be a very large open alter in order to accommodate all its worshipers. As this perspective appears improbable, I then realize this measuring of the temple, its alter, and its worshipers is spiritual in regards to the the Lords temple (the whole faithful body in Christ), its alter (that which the whole faithful body in Christ believes in heart), and its worshipers (they who love the temple/church and what they believe in heart).

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

And now we get to Revelation 11:2, the court outside the temple.
With the understanding of the temple representing the whole body of Christ, His church; the court outside the temple which is part of the temple grounds represents the ground within the hearts of the Lords temple/church in which the Antichrist shall stand and have a place in (where he ought not-Mark 13:14) for a period of 1,260 days.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

 

[Quantrill]

Here are the verses i meant:

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

So in the past the gentiles were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, but not anymore.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Same promise to all.

And yes I am open minded. Dont care if you believe it or not.
I type how I please, and the fact that you point out i typed "galatians" with small letters is just nitpicking and petty. Grow up. there is nothing holy about the word galatians,, its a group of people, i dont worship the galatians, i dont even worship the epistle to the galatians. (notice i also type the word "i" in small letters too sometimes.) God, Holy Spirit and Jesus are the only words I type in big letters, rest i dont care about.

Concerning the verses in (Eph), yes the Gentiles are brought into the promises given to Israel through the Abrahamic Covenant, and thus into the commonwealth of Israel and are no longer strangers from these promises. But this does not make the Church, Israel.

Concerning the verses in (Gal.), yes, we who are 'in Christ' are the Church. And being 'in Christ', we lose our Jew and Greek distinction. That is true for the Church. That does not make the Church Israel. Yes the promise is to all at this time to accept Christ and in so doing they become part of the Church.

Quantrill

 

[Hevosmies]

Concerning the verses in (Eph), yes the Gentiles are brought into the promises given to Israel through the Abrahamic Covenant, and thus into the commonwealth of Israel and are no longer strangers from these promises. But this does not make the Church, Israel.

Concerning the verses in (Gal.), yes, we who are 'in Christ' are the Church. And being 'in Christ', we lose our Jew and Greek distinction. That is true for the Church. That does not make the Church Israel. Yes the promise is to all at this time to accept Christ and in so doing they become part of the Church.

Quantrill

Thanks. So if I understood you correctly:

1. Rapture happens
2. Church is completed
3. People who get SAVED after the rapture, are saved by Jesus, both jews and gentiles, but are not the church.

Also thanks for showing me the verse that pointed out 1. Jews 2. Gentiles 3. church of God. That set me straight.

How will this work in eternity btw? In eternity, will we all be one? Or is there STILL a church/israel/tribulation saints distinction?
Also reading back my post, i was too rude and I wish to apologize for it. I didn't have my coffee yet lol.

 

[garee]

When I say I interpret the Bible literally it doesn't mean I don't allow the use of metaphors, symbols, allegories etc. But the Bible is not a metaphor to be interpreted metaphorically. If a symbol is used, fine, by all means find the interpretation of that symbol. If a metaphor is used, find what the metaphor is describing.

In other words, that symbol or metaphor is describing a literal truth. The book of Revelation does use many symbols. (Rev. 1:1) But these symbols or signs are not left to your or my imagination to determine their meaning. The Bible itself will give the understanding of the symbol.

You say, 'the only thing we can really trust, is that Jesus said he is coming again'. I'm certainly glad He gave us a little more information than that. What good is the blessing given in (Rev. 1:3) if there is no understanding?

Quantrill

Christ's Spirit not seen will come as a thief in the night in the glory of the unseen father . No one knows the day or hour as time.

The metaphor "thousand years" as a unknown amount of time is found in the parable along with other many other metaphors in Revelation 20. But just as in the days of Noah we can watch for His coming but he will still come unexpectedly. No direct sign as a sign and wonder of the last day .Sign of the times we are in already...….. yes.

The time of reformation has come. The use of Jewish flesh as metaphors in parables has been fulfilled. Believers as of the first century reformation are the temple of God having the power of God in Holy place, our earthen bodies .Bodies that in respect to His mercy that are shown as a representation of His unseen glory that will be revealed in the new heavens and earth.

We offer spiritual unseen sacrifices called "believing God" as he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.Therefore offering the prayer of our hearts in thanksgiving.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The abomination of desecration as the antichrists (Men influenced by the father of Lies) standing in the Holy place, the invisible presence of God's Glory.

The violation of the warning of antichrists (many) who were present (1 John2:26-27)in so much that we do not need a man seen to teach us but as it the word of God teaches us we abide in Him not seen

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John2:26-27

The same kind of seducing in the Garden of Eden. The father of lies Satan put his words as thoughts on the fleshly mind of the creature seen, "Did God really mean what he says? "

Throughout the scriptures we are warning of men seen plagerizing or blaspheming the author of Scripture trying to make the word of God without effect through an oral tradition as the things of men seen .Rather than the tings of God not seen

The action of one of the many antichrist who were their is shown in action in Mathew 16 when Peter blasphemed the holy name of God as the things of men. I can't think of a better place to be used of the antichrist the spirit(singular) of lies working in the hearts of sinful men called antichrists (plural) .

Peter as the most revealed denier because the Son of man, Jesus was still there in his corrupted flesh he inherited from his mother Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man more than once .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an "offence" unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

Is there a clearer picture of the antichrists, as the things of men under the influence of the father of lies, Satan other than with Peter the liar?

 

[garee]

Concerning the verses in (Eph), yes the Gentiles are brought into the promises given to Israel through the Abrahamic Covenant, and thus into the commonwealth of Israel and are no longer strangers from these promises. But this does not make the Church, Israel.

Concerning the verses in (Gal.), yes, we who are 'in Christ' are the Church. And being 'in Christ', we lose our Jew and Greek distinction. That is true for the Church. That does not make the Church Israel. Yes the promise is to all at this time to accept Christ and in so doing they become part of the Church.

Quantrill

Why put any separation between the church called Israel and the same church called by its new name, Christian?

The word; "the commonwealth of Israel" is not in respect to all Israel as the one bride of Christ, the church .

It only seems to work for dispensationalist who need to divide the chaste virgin bride into two groups

If any man Jew or Gentile does not have the born again Spirit of Christ(the anointing Holy Spirit of God ) who faithfully works in the believer to both will and perform his good pleasure...…….. they are simply none of His

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Acts 15:9 And put "no difference" between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Purifying their hearts by work of His faith that does work in us again to both will and do His good pleasure as a labor of His love which he imputes to us freely.

By our new born again faith that alone comes from hearing God through the scriptures we can draw near to our first love, the hearing of His faith, it purifies our hearts as we do rest in His finished work of salvation

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and "purify your hearts", ye double minded.

 

[Quantrill]

Thanks. So if I understood you correctly:

1. Rapture happens
2. Church is completed
3. People who get SAVED after the rapture, are saved by Jesus, both jews and gentiles, but are not the church.

Also thanks for showing me the verse that pointed out 1. Jews 2. Gentiles 3. church of God. That set me straight.

How will this work in eternity btw? In eternity, will we all be one? Or is there STILL a church/israel/tribulation saints distinction?
Also reading back my post, i was too rude and I wish to apologize for it. I didn't have my coffee yet lol.

Yes, your three points understand me correctly.

You are quite welcome. And no apology necessary. I didn't pick up on any rudeness.

We will all be 'one' in that we will be the people of God. But the Church will forever be the Church, the bride and body of Chrsit. Israel will forever be Israel, the wife of the Father. Along with these you have those saints from Adam to Abraham or Moses, who are not Israel and are not the Church. As well as the Tribulation saints who are not part of Israel, or the Church. All are redeemed by Jesus Christ, but of different bodies. It will be quite a family of God.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Why put any separation between the church called Israel and the same church called by its new name, Christian?

The word; "the commonwealth of Israel" is not in respect to all Israel as the one bride of Christ, the church .

It only seems to work for dispensationalist who need to divide the chaste virgin bride into two groups

If any man Jew or Gentile does not have the born again Spirit of Christ(the anointing Holy Spirit of God ) who faithfully works in the believer to both will and perform his good pleasure...…….. they are simply none of His

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Acts 15:9 And put "no difference" between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Purifying their hearts by work of His faith that does work in us again to both will and do His good pleasure as a labor of His love which he imputes to us freely.

By our new born again faith that alone comes from hearing God through the scriptures we can draw near to our first love, the hearing of His faith, it purifies our hearts as we do rest in His finished work of salvation

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and "purify your hearts", ye double minded.

There is a difference between the Church and Israel because they are two distinct bodies. As I have asked before, why does God even bring up the term 'Church' if the Church is Israel. Just keep calling it Israel. (Matt. 16:18) Jesus says, "...upon this rock I will build my church...." 'Will build' is future. The church of Jesus Christ did not exist at that time.

(Rom. 8:9) "...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." And this speaks of course to the Church. These are they 'in Christ Jesus'. (8:1) That is a definition of those in the Church.

Concerning (Acts 15:9), yes there is no difference in that both Jew and Gentile are saved by faith. This does not distinguish the different bodies of believers, but that all believers are saved by faith. Just becaue all believers are saved by faith doesn't make them of the same body.

Quantrill

 

[garee]

There is a difference between the Church and Israel because they are two distinct bodies. As I have asked before, why does God even bring up the term 'Church' if the Church is Israel. Just keep calling it Israel. (Matt. 16:18) Jesus says, "...upon this rock I will build my church...." 'Will build' is future. The church of Jesus Christ did not exist at that time.

(Rom. 8:9) "...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." And this speaks of course to the Church. These are they 'in Christ Jesus'. (8:1) That is a definition of those in the Church.

Concerning (Acts 15:9), yes there is no difference in that both Jew and Gentile are saved by faith. This does not distinguish the different bodies of believers, but that all believers are saved by faith. Just becaue all believers are saved by faith doesn't make them of the same body.

Quantrill

If we are saved by a work of His faith according to that work it is all one and the same new body the church, the bride of Christ.

The body as the wife of Christ was first introduced in Genesis 3:15. Abel the first in whom God had favor as grace on . He did not have grace of Cain .

Not all Israel are born again Christians...….. the new name he named His bride the church, as new creatures. Because all believers are saved by the mutual faith of Christ as that which comes from hearing God, all who are given his faith as a labor of His love make up the chaste virgin bride of Christ the spiritual house of God. He puts no difference between the color of their flesh as if he was a respecter of persons .

Acts 15:8-10 (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[Angela53510]

Since two-thirds of the Bible is prophetic, why would eschatology be "at best a guess?"

God has revealed His plans and purposes to us in broad detail, and Christ has given us an overview of all that would transpire between His first and second comings, and then beyond that to the New Heavens and the New Earth.

It is our privilege, as well as our responsibility, to make the effort to understand what God has revealed, and to clarify it to others. However, too many preachers and teachers fail to study the matter in depth, and present it clearly on the basis of Scripture. The problem is with systems such as Preterism and Amillennialism, which seek to turn prophecy on tis head, where anything can mean anything else, e.g. the Millennium.

Most prophecy is known, I agree! That’s because it was about the incarnation, Jesus coming to die on the cross, etc. In other words, the first coming.

What we have no clue about, is the second coming. We do know Jesus is returning. We know every knee shall now, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

What we do not know is when. And so much has been written about that, most of which is not supported biblically. John Hagee and his 4 blood moons in Sept., 2016 comes to mind. Or the guy in California, Harold Camping. How many believed those false prophecies? All based on false dispensationalism.

When Jesus returns, everyone, saint and sinner is going to know it. This is one thing I really have against dispensationalism. It reads into the text a “secret rapture,” leaving people terrified about the future. Or jumping the gun, forgetting we are here on earth for a reason, and it is not “all about me” and me being taken away.

Modern eschatology is just so shallow! Dispensationalism is the worst possible reading of the Bible. It is mostly made up, little knowledge of good hermeneutical principles, and a lot of outright fantasy.

So glad I am free to study the Bible, and to not have to rely on 19th century bad interpretations for a sound end times view.

As for whoever said that “end times” was accepted as a Modern usage for the Greek word apocalypse, not really. Another twisting of a biblical word to make it something it isn’t, by people who are utterly misinformed. Dispensationalism again!

 

[Jackson123]

Christian is the spiritual temple of God

Building in Jerusalem is also call temple of God.

The Bible say there will be a powerfull entity rule the word, people worship him.

People worship, mean people think he is god.

Rev 13
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.


It is understandable for that man reign from the temple in Jerusalem to make people believe he is god.

So I believe third temple will be build to prepare the antichrist.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Christ's Spirit not seen will come as a thief in the night in the glory of the unseen father .

1) the thing which is said to "so come as a thief IN THE NIGHT" is the TIME PERIOD which will unfold upon the earth and involve a great many happenings (over the course of a lengthy period of time).

2) but where Scripture refers to Christ's own Personal "return" (that is, to the earth, per the Rev19 time slot), the phrase "IN THE NIGHT" is NOT used (that is, it is NOT used of His return/His Person). Only that He will come "as a thief." [NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase is used with regard to THIS].

The #1 thing ^ ARRIVES to unfold upon the earth well before the #2 ^ event.

No one knows the day or hour as time.

In all passages that refer to "day and/or hour" (meaning, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man" [not even Jesus during His earthly ministry before His death/resurrection]), all apply to His Second Coming to the earth time slot [#2, above ^] (not to our Rapture time slot [which happens even before the #1's arrival [to unfold upon the earth], above ^ ]), per CONTEXT.

However, He did not say no one would EVER know (nor that no one CAN ever know). In fact, later (well after His resurrection/ascension [32ad], I believe He then "knew" perfectly, and supplied further information on THAT very topic in "The Revelation" [95ad], including various time stamps and such-like-indicators, so that those existing on the earth at that future time CAN come to "know" it, if they will but heed His Word [and those who will come to "understand" it and be conveying it to others, at that time]). Some will, and some won't, as we can see from what Scripture informs us regarding that. (And, again, the SUBJECT/CONTEXT is not our Rapture, in such passages, which was revealed and explained elsewhere.)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ ran out of time to edit my grammar and correct the bracketing as it should be... my apologies

 

[Nehemiah6]

Modern eschatology is just so shallow! Dispensationalism is the worst possible reading of the Bible.

It would appear that you have a very superficial understanding of Dispensationalism. Kindly take some time to study it properly, and you will find that it is THE BEST way to understand Bible prophecy. No allegorizing, spiritualizing , or fantasizing.

If you have never read anything by Lewis Sperry Chafer, John F. Walvoord, Charles C. Ryrie, etc. then you owe it to yourself (and this is for all who criticize Dispensationalism without getting a handle on it).

Please note this comment: "In my opinion, Dr. Chafer was the greatest Bible teacher/theologian of the first part of the 20th century."

http://www.lewissperrychafer.org

A quote from one of his books:

Chapter 18 - The Dispensations As to time, the Bible may be apportioned into well-defined periods. These periods are clearly separated and the recognition of their divisions with their divine purposes constitutes one of the important factors in true interpretation of the Scriptures. These divisions of time are termed dispensations, which word is somewhat different than the word age in that the word age is more general, being used of any brief division of time or generation of men, though the word age is rightly used as synonymous with the word dispensation. It is probable that the recognition of the dispensations sheds more light on the whole message of the Scriptures than any other aspect of Bible study. Often the first clear understanding of the dispensations and God's revealed purposes in them results in the beginning of useful Bible knowledge and in the fostering of a personal interest in the Bible itself. Man's relation to God is not the same in every age. It has been necessary to bring fallen man into divine testing. This, in part, is God's purpose in the ages, and the result of the testings is in every case an unquestionable demonstration of the utter failure and sinfulness of man. In the end, every mouth will have been stopped because every assumption of the human heart will have proven its unwisdom and wickedness by centuries of experience.

 

[Quantrill]

If we are saved by a work of His faith according to that work it is all one and the same new body the church, the bride of Christ.

The body as the wife of Christ was first introduced in Genesis 3:15. Abel the first in whom God had favor as grace on . He did not have grace of Cain .

Not all Israel are born again Christians...….. the new name he named His bride the church, as new creatures. Because all believers are saved by the mutual faith of Christ as that which comes from hearing God, all who are given his faith as a labor of His love make up the chaste virgin bride of Christ the spiritual house of God. He puts no difference between the color of their flesh as if he was a respecter of persons .

Acts 15:8-10 (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Only since Pentecost are the believing part of the Church, the Body of Christ. It is only since Pentecost that the believing could have the Spirit of Christ in them. That was not possible until the resurrection of Christ by the Holy Spirit. (John 7:38-39)

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

Only since Pentecost are the believing part of the Church, the Body of Christ. It is only since Pentecost that the believing could have the Spirit of Christ in them. That was not possible until the resurrection of Christ by the Holy Spirit. (John 7:38-39)

Quantrill

And you think that it will end and return back to the Old covenant's Israel?

 

[Quantrill]

And you think that it will end and return back to the Old covenant's Israel?

Here is a brief summary.

I believe the Church has a beginning and a completion which is at the Rapture. So the Church is then in Heaven with Christ. Then, on the earth, during the Tribulation period, God is once again dealing with the nation of Israel. Salvation is always by faith, and the believing Jews accept Christ as their Messiah. Then at the end of the Tribulation period, Christ returns to the earth and prepares to set up the 1000 year Kingdom on the earth.

The Abrahamic Covenant is always existing. And the Jews who are believers, when they by faith receive Christ, and are brought into that covenant, they receive eternal life. I believe the Mosaic covenant will not be returned to as Israel invalidated it by her constant breaking it. But there will be one similar to it, that is even more legal than the Mosaic. I believe this is what is spoken of in (Ez. 20:37). "And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:"

And during this time, the 1000 year reign of Christ, the Temple will be built. Israel's priestly ministery established, including animal sacrifices that look back to the Cross. (Ez. 40-48) This involves Israel, not the Church. The Church is ruling and reigning with Christ at this time.

As I said, that is just a brief synopsis.

Quantrill

 

[Hevosmies]

Most prophecy is known, I agree! That’s because it was about the incarnation, Jesus coming to die on the cross, etc. In other words, the first coming.

What we have no clue about, is the second coming. We do know Jesus is returning. We know every knee shall now, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

What we do not know is when. And so much has been written about that, most of which is not supported biblically. John Hagee and his 4 blood moons in Sept., 2016 comes to mind. Or the guy in California, Harold Camping. How many believed those false prophecies? All based on false dispensationalism.

When Jesus returns, everyone, saint and sinner is going to know it. This is one thing I really have against dispensationalism. It reads into the text a “secret rapture,” leaving people terrified about the future. Or jumping the gun, forgetting we are here on earth for a reason, and it is not “all about me” and me being taken away.

Modern eschatology is just so shallow! Dispensationalism is the worst possible reading of the Bible. It is mostly made up, little knowledge of good hermeneutical principles, and a lot of outright fantasy.

So glad I am free to study the Bible, and to not have to rely on 19th century bad interpretations for a sound end times view.

As for whoever said that “end times” was accepted as a Modern usage for the Greek word apocalypse, not really. Another twisting of a biblical word to make it something it isn’t, by people who are utterly misinformed. Dispensationalism again!

I want to ask. What is a good interpretation of end times if dispensationalism is bad? What do you suggest as the alternative? Are you premill amill?

I am in no man's land, outside the camps. But I like some things about dispensationalism, such as the literal interpretation thing. If it says God will raise up David as a prince to rule in Israel, or something that simple, I see no reason to spiritualize it. Its like saying "joe went to the store" there is no deeper hidden meaning to it, its just that.
Now if the verse talks about dragons and eyes and stuff like that, OK I understand some symbolism is at play.
What I dislike about dispensationalism is the idea that everything is always for/about the jewsjewsjewsjews and we gentiles get the epistles of Paul and thats it. I support the nation of Israel and am not anti-semitic. But I just dont see the "jewhype" in the NT. Matthew,Mark,Luke Jesus is talking with His disciples whom were jews yes, but they were also regenerate, believers in Jesus. I dont think those gospels are meant for unregenerate antichrists.

I am also free to study the Bible, but I have not yet pinned down my eschatology. Im working on it, praying about it, hoping God will show me the way.