Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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You believe people just chose a doctrine. This is funny. You can see a pre trib, and millennium kingdom on Earth, a rapture before the tribulation and an antichrist in the end without reading any commentary. People come to these beliefs by reading the Bible. Many have never heard of the people who first wrote the compilation of such beliefs. Much like how most Christians fall on either the side of free will or determinism or in the middle without even studying Calvin or Arminius.
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As the map below shows biblical Canaan, Israel dosent own or control (All The Land Of Canaan) nor have they since forever, as the everlasting covenant appears to be revoked, you gonna pull another rabbit out of your hat, in desperate aattemptsto save your Zionist Kingdom on earth? 
Genesis 17:8KJV
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Map of Canaan - 12 Tribe Portions
(Freely Distributed)
Genesis 17:8KJV
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Map of Canaan - 12 Tribe Portions
(Freely Distributed)
"[11] and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season."
"FOR a season"...
By the way, the Greek word for "FOR" here ^ is "G891 achri or achris"... https://biblehub.com/greek/891.htm
...the SAME Greek word translated "UNTIL" in Romans 11:25... "that blindness [/a hardening] in part is happened to Israel UNTIL G891 - achris ...[*UNTIL* the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]." ]
that is, up until a certain point... but after that point is a different story.
["12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord." Similar to what is stated in Ezek37-39, regarding those who "see" Israel, at a certain point in Israel's "FUTURE," but when their blindness / hardening IS LIFTED... (yet future to us... and future to "our Rapture") ]
"FOR a season"...
By the way, the Greek word for "FOR" here ^ is "G891 achri or achris"... https://biblehub.com/greek/891.htm
...the SAME Greek word translated "UNTIL" in Romans 11:25... "that blindness [/a hardening] in part is happened to Israel UNTIL G891 - achris ...[*UNTIL* the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]."
]that is, up until a certain point...
but after that point is a different story.["12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord." Similar to what is stated in Ezek37-39, regarding those who "see" Israel, at a certain point in Israel's "FUTURE," but when their blindness / hardening IS LIFTED... (yet future to us... and future to "our Rapture")
]"7 So [/in this way] will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. 8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken." - Ezekiel 39:7-8 (parallel wording to that of what Joseph did in Gen45:1[6], in the early part of Joseph's "seven year famine"--"...there STOOD NO MAN WITH HIM, while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO his brethren" )
)Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
@Truth7t7 , Since Daniel clearly grasped the word "YEARS" (according to your reasoning), what then did he mean HERE (since, according to *your* reasoning, he could NOT have meant "YEARS" or else he would have said it that way just like everywhere else in Daniel) :
[do you think these verses are in any way related to "prophecy"... as in future prophecy beyond "Neb's" personal human lifespan??]
- Daniel 4:16
Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
- Daniel 4:23
And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;
- Daniel 4:25
That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
- Daniel 4:32
And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
How long was that??
[do you think these verses are in any way related to "prophecy"... as in future prophecy beyond "Neb's" personal human lifespan??]
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@Truth7t7 , but in Daniel 4 (according to your reasoning), he did not write "years" which he had perfect capability of doing (per your reasoning) but didn't, here. Why not?
How long did he MEAN, then, in THIS text (Daniel 4... 4x)?
If he hadn't meant "years" in Daniel 4 (4x that the word "TIMES" is used)... then what did he mean instead?
Could he have used the term "TIMES" to legitimately be referring to "YEARS"? Or, no... according to you? Which?
____________
As for the word in Dan9:24 (under discussion), here's what Strong's has to say:
[quoting]
Strong's Hebrew: 7620. שְׁבֻעַ (shabua) -- a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week (biblehub.com)
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
seven, week
Or shabuan {shaw-boo'-ah}; also (feminine) shbu.ah {sheb-oo-aw'}; properly, passive participle of shaba' as a denominative of sheba'; literal, sevened, i.e. A week (specifically, of years) -- seven, week.
see HEBREW shaba'
see HEBREW sheba'
[end quoting Strong's]
How long did he MEAN, then, in THIS text (Daniel 4... 4x)?
If he hadn't meant "years" in Daniel 4 (4x that the word "TIMES" is used)... then what did he mean instead?
Could he have used the term "TIMES" to legitimately be referring to "YEARS"? Or, no... according to you? Which?
____________
As for the word in Dan9:24 (under discussion), here's what Strong's has to say:
[quoting]
Strong's Hebrew: 7620. שְׁבֻעַ (shabua) -- a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week (biblehub.com)
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
seven, week
Or shabuan {shaw-boo'-ah}; also (feminine) shbu.ah {sheb-oo-aw'}; properly, passive participle of shaba' as a denominative of sheba'; literal, sevened, i.e. A week (specifically, of years) -- seven, week.
see HEBREW shaba'
see HEBREW sheba'
[end quoting Strong's]
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Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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It clearly states (Seventy Weeks) You Arent Going To Change Gods Words
Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
I am not sure what the map proves.
The history of the Jews is unfolding in real historical time, it seems strange to deny that. It has been and remains a very troubled history. (David was told he would have a troubled house). I truly believe that God has his hand on the ancient Israelites - which is a common Christian belief though you dispute it. As I've stated, I think when the time of their curse expires (the time of the gentiles) then he will change their hearts to him. When this happens their situation will alter beyond our comprehension.
The history of the Jews is unfolding in real historical time, it seems strange to deny that. It has been and remains a very troubled history. (David was told he would have a troubled house). I truly believe that God has his hand on the ancient Israelites - which is a common Christian belief though you dispute it. As I've stated, I think when the time of their curse expires (the time of the gentiles) then he will change their hearts to him. When this happens their situation will alter beyond our comprehension.
As the map below shows biblical Canaan, Israel dosent own or control (All The Land Of Canaan) nor have they since forever, as the everlasting covenant appears to be revoked, you gonna pull another rabbit out of your hat, in desperate aattemptsto save your Zionist Kingdom on earth?
Genesis 17:8KJV
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Map of Canaan - 12 Tribe Portions
(Freely Distributed)
Genesis 17:8KJV
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Map of Canaan - 12 Tribe Portions
(Freely Distributed)
As the map below shows biblical Canaan, Israel dosent own or control (All The Land Of Canaan) nor have they since forever, as the everlasting covenant appears to be revoked, you gonna pull another rabbit out of your hat, in desperate aattemptsto save your Zionist Kingdom on earth?
Genesis 17:8KJV
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Map of Canaan - 12 Tribe Portions
(Freely Distributed)
Genesis 17:8KJV
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Map of Canaan - 12 Tribe Portions
(Freely Distributed)
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"Israel Is The Church", Children Of The Promised Seed
All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Is Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth
Romans 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Romans 11:28KJV
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
1 Peter 1:2KJV
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Is Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth
Romans 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Romans 11:28KJV
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
1 Peter 1:2KJV
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Many are "Blind" to scriptural truth as presented before your eyes, Israel/Jerusalem will see the future fulfilling of the Gentiles for 42 months Rev 11:2, and the future slaughter of 2/3 will be cut off and die Zechariah 13:8, Luke 21:20-23
Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Zechariah 13:8KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Luke 21:20-23KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Zechariah 13:8KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Luke 21:20-23KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
