Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

[7seasrekeyed]

No one is anti tongues, as prophecy from God. We have the whole Bible, the perfect law of God with nothing missing by which we could know Him more adequately . Do you need more than he has revealed in order to maintain faith? Once you study and confirm what the sign of tongues confirms the rest of the doctrine. God mocking those who mock him with stammering lips will fall in to place.

Start in Isaiah 28 the foundation of the doctrine rather than coming in the back door. You could miss the introduction..

start with 1 Corinthians 14 and believe what Paul writes

I have no intention of conflating the old and new testaments as do you

you have missed the entire process

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Angels as messengers of God are assigned as their language to bring the interpretation of God called scripture.They have no language of their own.They are messengers not authors or finishers of a faith that comes from hearing God. They are not subject to the gospel but long to look into the gospel language .The language of the gospel is designed for mankind is like a foreign tongue to them seeing the gospel has no effect on them .

The gospel was designed for mankind.

The fallen angels bring the messengers of the father of lies.That band of angels is called legion, as in many.

 

[obedienttogod]

Paul is using hyperbole to make the rhetorical and practical point that even as a very paramount point of the spectrum it would not compare to love.....smh

This is quite obvious.

And if Speaking in the Tongues of Angels were impossible, Paul never would write it as a possibility. So, if you think Paul wrote Chapter 13 and there are no TRUTHS to it, it would not be in the WORD of God!!

In other words, GET A CLUE!!

 

[obedienttogod]

As others mentioned the whole "tongues of angels" thing is textbook hyperbole.

With respect to "various kinds of tongues" -

First, put this in a more modern form: "various kinds of languages".

For 'kinds', the word 'genos' is used. It does mean 'kinds/types', but with the connotation of belonging to a family (it's the same root in the word 'genealogy'); thus, "various kinds of languages" with the understanding that said 'kinds of languages' belong to various types/kinds of language families - Paul is not describing glossolalia here, but rather real, rational languages.

Paul does claim to have been in the presence of the 3rd Heaven. And for most of that entire experience, God would not allow him to expand upon all he witnessed. But there is no doubt, Paul knew the language being spoken in the 3rd heaven was nowhere like what he wrote his letters in (Greek).

This hyperbole theory was introduced to discredit much of what Paul claims in Chapter 13, yet, out of the entire message being hyperbole, some preachers still want to relay the message of LOVE from it. You CANNOT pick and choose what you want from the WORD of God, nothing written is by accident or without purpose from the Holy Spirit. We can find many TRUTHS from Chapter 13. And speaking in Tongues of Angels is only just one of those TRUTHS from Chapter 13!!

It's like using the BOOK OF LIES (Didache) to discredit Tongues. There are at least 11 specific outright LIES within the Didache. But fools have used the Didache for their argument. And the moment you point out the obvious flaws within their argument, over the Didache. You see the true colors of those fools.

The Bible states to call no man a fool. But if you have believed an absolute provable lie, and then passed it onto the next 30 generations as a truth, there is no other proper word to describe that individual(s)!!

 

[UnderGrace]

And if Speaking in the Tongues of Angels were impossible, Paul never would write it as a possibility. So, if you think Paul wrote Chapter 13 and there are no TRUTHS to it, it would not be in the WORD of God!!

In other words, GET A CLUE!!

Oh is full of truth, just not the one you think it is.

 

[obedienttogod]

Oh is full of truth, just not the one you think it is.

Hyperbole is what is not truth about it. Everything else is 100% FACT!!

 

[UnderGrace]

Hyperbole is what is not truth about it. Everything else is 100% FACT!!

Sure it is.

Have you moved any mountains lately??

 

[Kavik]

Paul does claim to have been in the presence of the 3rd Heaven. And for most of that entire experience, God would not allow him to expand upon all he witnessed. But there is no doubt, Paul knew the language being spoken in the 3rd heaven was nowhere like what he wrote his letters in (Greek).

There is no reason to believe that whatever it was he heard, he heard it in some otherworldly language; you're assuming and reading way too much into the text. One could argue that if indeed he heard some other heavenly language spoken, he would have commented on it to bolster some of the points he was trying to make.

This hyperbole theory was introduced to discredit much of what Paul claims in Chapter 13

No theory here - Paul wrote what he wrote, and what he wrote in this section of his letter, no matter how you slice and dice it, is textbook hyperbole; no getting around that one.

 

[obedienttogod]

Sure it is.

Have you moved any mountains lately??

Indeed, I have!! But in reality, it was God who moved them for me, I just applied the FAITH necessary to allow God to be free to do what He does best. Made a way through the impossible by removing the mountain that stood before me!!

 

[obedienttogod]

There is no reason to believe that whatever it was he heard, he heard it in some otherworldly language; you're assuming and reading way too much into the text. One could argue that if indeed he heard some other heavenly language spoken, he would have commented on it to bolster some of the points he was trying to make.

Oh, but he did comment on it, by claiming God restricted him.

No theory here - Paul wrote what he wrote, and what he wrote in this section of his letter, no matter how you slice and dice it, is textbook hyperbole; no getting around that one.

In your point of view, but Paul also claimed what he did, preach, teach, wrote was under the complete influence of Yeshua. Since this is God speaking through Paul, the hyperbole crap must be removed!! Because God is claiming, man can Speak in both human and angelic Tongues!!

Therefore, you are not restricting Paul, but what God said

 

[Kavik]

Oh, but he did comment on it, by claiming God restricted him.

That God restricted him says zero about "tongues" or "heavenly language" - as with Paul's letter, you're reading into the text things that are just not there.

Since this is God speaking through Paul,

It's just Paul writing a letter to the Church in Corinth after presumably receiving a letter himself outlining the issues the Church there was experiencing and asking for his advice. I'm not doubting he may have been inspired by his faith in writing his reply, but hyperbole is hyperbole regardless of the author.

On another note, It's too bad the original "letter of complaint" no longer exists (assuming there was one and Paul didn't get the original complaint via messenger); it would solve the whole tongues issue in a matter of minutes.

 

[fredoheaven]

oh yes I understood you

no I am not making things up

there are a good number of books that have been excluded from the canon of scripture in the Bible most Christians...but not all...have on hand

many Christians think some of those books should have been included...many do not

do a little research before telling someone they are making things up

Hoho, I didn't expect you to come up with this post of yours like this. I failed to see any counterpoint. I see you misunderstood something. With the completion of the "ALL scripture" speaking in tongue is to cease. I think you should be the one to do more researched before telling someone they are making things up.

As to Mark 16, I believe it is the word of God that there were once a sign that follows those who believe. The Lord's primary focus was on those to whom he was directly addressing. Verse 14 says the Lord "upbraided them with their unbelief." Thus the signs listed in verses 17-18, which were to become indications of faith, were specifically given to those whom our Lord upbraided for the lack of faith until that point. Eventually, the disciples “confirm[ed] the word with signs following” (verse 20).

 

[UnderGrace]

Indeed, I have!! But in reality, it was God who moved them for me, I just applied the FAITH necessary to allow God to be free to do what He does best. Made a way through the impossible by removing the mountain that stood before me!!

Ah ...yes but the physical mountain remains.

This is hyperbole. You have proven my point.

The speech of angels in scripture was always in a language humans understood.

 

[fredoheaven]

Paul did not claim to speak in the tongues of angels. Paul used hyperbole to illustrate the superiority of love in knowledge.

Context avoids a pretext that is not supported in Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

We are created in the likeness of God, so the language of men is the language of God. Angel Gabriel spake and was understood by Mary. In the book of Revelation, angel will preach to people in the last days so it is obvious the tongue of angels are sensible, they can be understood by men but we know it, it is just an hyperbolic nature when Paul stated it.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

 

[fredoheaven]

Three thousand people were saved by hearing of prophecy, or hearing of faith through the manner of tongues. How can you say that the manner of tongues is not prophecy when 3000 souls would disagree ?

What is canonicity . The work of God gathering together a collection of his inspired books ?

Apostolicity what is it?

It is said that the scripture is canonized when it is written by the Apostles and when it is already in circulation.

 

[garee]

It is said that the scripture is canonized when it is written by the Apostles and when it is already in circulation.

Where do we find the idea of "Canonizing" in the scriptures? And what does written by the Apostles when it is already in circulation mean? What do the apostles have to do with it?

I don't think God is served with human hands in that way . Sounds like a Roman Catholic foundation.

 

[obedienttogod]

="Kavik,
That God restricted him says zero about "tongues" or "heavenly language" - as with Paul's letter, you're reading into the text things that are just not there.[/QUOTE}

Remember though, as Saul, Paul was taught by the very best best and was the most educated of the Apostles, the Council led by James, and everywhere he travelled to. Most intelligent minds are aware of their surroundings at all times. And to think a mind like that of Paul's was able to experience the 3rd Heaven for 3 days, would have been something he would notice in their actions, how they spoke, how they worshiped, how they did everything. His mind would have been like a dusty dried sponge soaking everything in like it was water.

It's just Paul writing a letter to the Church in Corinth after presumably receiving a letter himself outlining the issues the Church there was experiencing and asking for his advice. I'm not doubting he may have been inspired by his faith in writing his reply, but hyperbole is hyperbole regardless of the author.

On another note, It's too bad the original "letter of complaint" no longer exists (assuming there was one and Paul didn't get the original complaint via messenger); it would solve the whole tongues issue in a matter of minutes.

None of what you say matters, due to one simple fact. Paul chose to begin with someone who could Speak both the human and Angelic Language. If it was not possible to do so, Paul would have never mentioned it. And when he does mention it, he only claims if you can do this but are not charitable, you are basically a hypocrite (sounding brass).


By all rights, we can flip that around and say, though I speak with Tongues of men and Angels, because I am generous to the poor, I sound like a beautiful lullaby.

Basically then, what the difference between being a hypocrite or someone genuine, is helping out your brother and sister because you are charitable. But the fact still exist, that you are able to Speak in Tongues of Angels!!

 

[obedienttogod]

I decided to do some research concerning what actual Biblical Scholars and those who are considered to be knowledgeable consider to be Hyperbole's:

exampleS of hyperbole is found in John 3:26, John 4:39, Mark 1:4-5, Luke 7:24-35, Matt. 23:24, Mark 9:23, James 4:2,3, John 5:19, John 15:5, 2 Cor.13:8, Matt. 5:29, Luke 14:26, John 12:19, Matt. 11:23, Job 29:6, Deut. 1:28, Judges 20:16, Second Timothy 2:15, Isaiah 55:12, Matt. 13:31–32, John 10:7, Song of Solomon 2:1–3, Romans 8:19, Romans 8:13, Colossians 3:5, Matthew 18:21-22, 1 Samuel 15:8, 2 Kings 18:5, 2 Kings 23:25, Ezekiel 5:9, Daniel 9:12, Matthew 24:21,


Apologetics Press - Hyperbole: A Common Biblical Figure of Speech
https://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=240

Bible Matters--Hyperbole - Tentmaker
https://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/hyperbole.htm

Personification, Hyperbole, and Metaphor | Reformed Bible Studies ...
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/personification-hyperbole-and-metaphor/

What are some examples of hyperboles in the Bible? - Quora
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-hyperboles-in-the-Bible

Hyperbole - Tektonics.org Bible apologetics and education
www.tektonics.org/gk/hyperbole.php

EvC Forum: Hyperbole in the Bible
https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=15973
SOME SITES JUST REPEAT WHAT i ALREADY HAVE LISTED!!




Every site I looked up DID NOT MENTION 1 Corinthians 13:1 being Hyperbole...BUT ONE DID!!

They are known as Christian Baptist's of the Restoration Movement[1][2]

Ironically, they do not believe in Tongues...what a shocker!!


***Even the sites not promoting Speaking in Tongues, did not mention 1 Corinthians 13:1 as Hyperbole.***



Every site I visited mentions nothing of Paul's examples in Speaking in Tongues as being HYPERBOLE, but the BAPTIST!!
And that is common knowledge by looking many of the BAPTIST here and their views towards Speaking in Tongues.

And then the Baptist go even further to DISCREDIT TONGUES by claiming it is HYPERBOLE!!

Yeah, not BUYING YOUR BULL AND NEVER WILL!!

Like I have ALWAYS SAID, if I did not desire to be close to God, I WOULD BECOME A BAPTIST!!

 

[Kavik]

If you go to sites that are biased towards the Pentecostal/Charismatic view of tongues, I think it rather obvious no one's going to see that section of Paul's epistle as textbook hyperbole. They can't; if they did, it would detract from their concept of 'tongues'. There are plenty of other non-religious (i.e. non-biased) sites that call it what it is: textbook hyperbole.

 

[obedienttogod]

If you go to sites that are biased towards the Pentecostal/Charismatic view of tongues, I think it rather obvious no one's going to see that section of Paul's epistle as textbook hyperbole. They can't; if they did, it would detract from their concept of 'tongues'. There are plenty of other non-religious (i.e. non-biased) sites that call it what it is: textbook hyperbole.

I chose the sites that DO NOT BELIEVE as I do. I am being FAIR HERE, you know, how a child of God should be?

And the information I provided is accurate and 100% factual!!

The Hyperbole's listed come from sites not believing in Tongues.

If I used the sites that believed in Tongues, my point would make no sense and be totally biased!!

You know, like the BAPTIST VIEW!!