Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

[obedienttogod]

="azamzimtoti, post: 3907195, member: 283097
(1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.)

This is a very good and astute verse ^ right here:

And it maybe makes some to require putting on their thinking cap, while others should get it right away. But let's look at the importance of this verse, in terms of what Various Kinds of Tongues:

First off, what does Various + Kinds indicate?

VARIOUS:
Various | Define Various at Dictionary.com
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/various
Various definition, of different kinds, as two or more things; differing one from another: Various experiments have not proved his theory. See more.

VARIOUS | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/various
various meaning: 1. many different: 2. several and different: . Learn more.

various | Definition of various in English by Oxford Dictionaries
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/various
Definition of various - different from one another; of different kinds or sorts.


KINDS:

All kinds of definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/all-kinds-of
All kinds of definition: You can use all kinds of to emphasize that there are a great number and variety of...

This one is perfect for Creation and the different kinds deer (mule - white tail - etc), bear (kodiak - black - grizzly - polar -etc), wild cats (Sahara terrain lions - American mountain lions - cougars - cheetah - etc)....the list is almost endless in respect to adding ALL OF THE ((VARIOUS KINDS)) OF Animals per Species. And what I am pasting explains this better in detail:

What Are “Kinds” in Genesis? | Answers in Genesis
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-science/baraminology/what-are-kinds-in-genesis/
Apr 16, 2013 - There is more on this word and its definition and relationship to “kinds” later in this chapter. The Bible uses the term “kind.” The Bible's first use ...


WE CAN EASILY DEDUCT AND CONCLUDE THAT VARIOUS KINDS + TONGUES EASILY MEANS:
There are SEVERAL forms of Tongues:
So we need to use the specific word being used for Tongues, to actually get an even clearer meaning.

1 Corinthians 12:28

γλωσσῶν = of tongues


Different Kinds of Tongues - Bible Knowledge
https://www.bible-knowledge.com/different-kinds-of-tongues/
The gift of tongues is simply the Holy Spirit giving you the supernatural ability to speak in a foreign tongue that you have no knowledge or ability to speak out on your own.

There are two types of tongues He can give you. One is a tongue of this earth. For instance, if your native language is English, then He can give you the ability to speak in Chinese, Japanese, or Spanish.

The other type of tongue that He can give you is a tongue direct from heaven, a heavenly language that is not of this earth. The Bible tells us in 1 Corinthians 13 that there are “tongues of angels.”



Tongues, Gift of Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/tongues-gift-of/
Tongues, Gift of
granted on the day of Pentecost ( Acts 2:4 ), in fulfilment of a promise Christ had made to his disciples ( Mark 16:17 ). What this gift actually was has been a subject of much discussion. Some have argued that it was merely an outward sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit among the disciples, typifying his manifold gifts, and showing that salvation was to be extended to all nations. But the words of Luke ( Acts 2:9 ) clearly show that the various peoples in Jerusalem at the time of Pentecost did really hear themselves addressed in their own special language with which they were naturally acquainted (Compare Joel 2:28 Joel 2:29 ).

Among the gifts of the Spirit the apostle enumerates in 1 Corinthians 12:10-14:30, , "divers kinds of tongues" and the "interpretation of tongues." This "gift" was a different manifestation of the Spirit from that on Pentecost, although it resembled it in many particulars. Tongues were to be "a sign to them that believe not."


Paul literally claims in 1 Corinthians 13:1 that he speaks:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,





***My question to YOU:***

If Paul spoke in the tongues of men, it's obvious that men hearing, could translate and interpret what Paul was saying...
BUT
If Paul spoke in the tongues of Angels (which he claims he could, and if Paul could do it, so can others speak in the tongues of Angels), could men hearing Paul speak in the tongues of Angels be able to understand it and interpret it?

NO, only God could do such a thing.

And Paul explains this ^ in 1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue ((speaketh not unto men)), but unto God: ((for no man understandeth him)); howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

[obedienttogod]

Not sure what I did, but nothing ^ should be crossed out

Fortunately, it's still readable

 

[fredoheaven]

They do continue as signs used as metaphors in that parable. Everyone of those metaphors indicate someone has heard the gospel and believed God.

Garee dear, did Jesus spake with parable in Mark 16.? I believe with all my heart that the longer Markan is the words of God but i am not yet convince it is a parable spoken by the Lord. Would you explain, expound more on this what you are to convey? Thanks

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Actually Mark 16 doesn't says it will continue to operate. This will be on its immediate cessation of sign gift once "All scripture" is completed.

so here we have another cessationist trying to tell those who believe and accept God's gifts how things are

please supply something...anything...that actually states completion of the canon of scripture is the litmus test for tongues

since believers do not even agree on what a completed canon looks like, you are making things up

have you got past Mark yet? read Acts? read Paul's instructions?

immediate cessation of all those who are anti tongues would be a God given blessed occurrence

 

[7seasrekeyed]

here is obedient's post again without the accidental strikethroughs

obedienttogod, post: 3907321, member: 279371"]This is a very good and astute verse ^ right here:

And it maybe makes some to require putting on their thinking cap, while others should get it right away. But let's look at the importance of this verse, in terms of what Various Kinds of Tongues:

First off, what does Various + Kinds indicate?

VARIOUS:
Various | Define Various at Dictionary.com
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/various
Various definition, of different kinds, as two or more things; differing one from another: Various experiments have not proved his theory. See more.

VARIOUS | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/various
various meaning: 1. many different: 2. several and different: . Learn more.

various | Definition of various in English by Oxford Dictionaries
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/various
Definition of various - different from one another; of different kinds or sorts.


KINDS:

All kinds of definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/all-kinds-of
All kinds of definition: You can use all kinds of to emphasize that there are a great number and variety of...

This one is perfect for Creation and the different kinds deer (mule - white tail - etc), bear (kodiak - black - grizzly - polar -etc), wild cats (Sahara terrain lions - American mountain lions - cougars - cheetah - etc)....the list is almost endless in respect to adding ALL OF THE ((VARIOUS KINDS)) OF Animals per Species. And what I am pasting explains this better in detail:

What Are “Kinds” in Genesis? | Answers in Genesis
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-science/baraminology/what-are-kinds-in-genesis/
Apr 16, 2013 - There is more on this word and its definition and relationship to “kinds” later in this chapter. The Bible uses the term “kind.” The Bible's first use ...


WE CAN EASILY DEDUCT AND CONCLUDE THAT VARIOUS KINDS + TONGUES EASILY MEANS:
There are SEVERAL forms of Tongues:
So we need to use the specific word being used for Tongues, to actually get an even clearer meaning.

1 Corinthians 12:28

γλωσσῶν = of tongues


Different Kinds of Tongues - Bible Knowledge
https://www.bible-knowledge.com/different-kinds-of-tongues/
The gift of tongues is simply the Holy Spirit giving you the supernatural ability to speak in a foreign tongue that you have no knowledge or ability to speak out on your own.

There are two types of tongues He can give you. One is a tongue of this earth. For instance, if your native language is English, then He can give you the ability to speak in Chinese, Japanese, or Spanish.

The other type of tongue that He can give you is a tongue direct from heaven, a heavenly language that is not of this earth. The Bible tells us in 1 Corinthians 13 that there are “tongues of angels.”



Tongues, Gift of Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/tongues-gift-of/
Tongues, Gift of
granted on the day of Pentecost ( Acts 2:4 ), in fulfilment of a promise Christ had made to his disciples ( Mark 16:17 ). What this gift actually was has been a subject of much discussion. Some have argued that it was merely an outward sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit among the disciples, typifying his manifold gifts, and showing that salvation was to be extended to all nations. But the words of Luke ( Acts 2:9 ) clearly show that the various peoples in Jerusalem at the time of Pentecost did really hear themselves addressed in their own special language with which they were naturally acquainted (Compare Joel 2:28 Joel 2:29 ).

Among the gifts of the Spirit the apostle enumerates in 1 Corinthians 12:10-14:30, , "divers kinds of tongues" and the "interpretation of tongues." This "gift" was a different manifestation of the Spirit from that on Pentecost, although it resembled it in many particulars. Tongues were to be "a sign to them that believe not."


Paul literally claims in 1 Corinthians 13:1 that he speaks:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,





***My question to YOU:***

If Paul spoke in the tongues of men, it's obvious that men hearing, could translate and interpret what Paul was saying...
BUT
If Paul spoke in the tongues of Angels (which he claims he could, and if Paul could do it, so can others speak in the tongues of Angels), could men hearing Paul speak in the tongues of Angels be able to understand it and interpret it?

NO, only God could do such a thing.

And Paul explains this ^ in 1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue ((speaketh not unto men)), but unto God: ((for no man understandeth him)); howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

[notuptome]

***My question to YOU:***

If Paul spoke in the tongues of men, it's obvious that men hearing, could translate and interpret what Paul was saying...
BUT
If Paul spoke in the tongues of Angels (which he claims he could, and if Paul could do it, so can others speak in the tongues of Angels), could men hearing Paul speak in the tongues of Angels be able to understand it and interpret it?

NO, only God could do such a thing.

And Paul explains this ^ in 1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue ((speaketh not unto men)), but unto God: ((for no man understandeth him)); howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Paul did not claim to speak in the tongues of angels. Paul used hyperbole to illustrate the superiority of love in knowledge.

Context avoids a pretext that is not supported in Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Paul did not claim to speak in the tongues of angels. Paul used hyperbole to illustrate the superiority of love in knowledge.

Context avoids a pretext that is not supported in Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

not my post

try to keep things in context with regards to who wrote what.

I only deleted the strike throughs

 

[posthuman]

The key to understanding what Paul was saying in that chapter is the very first verse, the first three words- follow after charity (Love).
The chapter before, Paul had described charity in details and one clear thing about charity is that it is not self seeking, it is always about others.
So, there shouldn't be anything about private prayer tongues not unless you can explain how self edification is not self seeking.

thank you noose

((maybe you not as nuts as i thought lol!!))

i was going to post the same thought, and i looked, and you had said it!
we have just come from ch. 13, about love, and now this. the crux of 14 is that we ought to seek prophecy rather than tongues - why? because love. because we should seek what benefits others, ahead of what benefits ourselves. we learn this in 13, and then we read in 14 how speaking in tongues no one interprets, and no one understands, is nothing compared with speaking in way that helps others. that we ought to hope to prophecy, which teaches others, and builds them up, rather than to boast about speaking in tongues in some way that doesn't even help our own minds, much less others, because no one has any idea what you are saying. so if you speak in tongues, pray someone can interpret it! else what profit is it, really? maybe to yourself - even though you actually learn nothing, consciously - but to no one else! if you have love then, obviously, what should you seek? what should you be glad for? for what does good to someone else!

 

[garee]

so here we have another cessationist trying to tell those who believe and accept God's gifts how things are

please supply something...anything...that actually states completion of the canon of scripture is the litmus test for tongues

since believers do not even agree on what a completed canon looks like, you are making things up

have you got past Mark yet? read Acts? read Paul's instructions?

immediate cessation of all those who are anti tongues would be a God given blessed occurrence

No one is anti tongues, as prophecy from God. We have the whole Bible, the perfect law of God with nothing missing by which we could know Him more adequately . Do you need more than he has revealed in order to maintain faith? Once you study and confirm what the sign of tongues confirms the rest of the doctrine. God mocking those who mock him with stammering lips will fall in to place.

Start in Isaiah 28 the foundation of the doctrine rather than coming in the back door. You could miss the introduction..

 

[fredoheaven]

so here we have another cessationist trying to tell those who believe and accept God's gifts how things are

please supply something...anything...that actually states completion of the canon of scripture is the litmus test for tongues

since believers do not even agree on what a completed canon looks like, you are making things up

have you got past Mark yet? read Acts? read Paul's instructions?

immediate cessation of all those who are anti tongues would be a God given blessed occurrence

Hi 7seasrekeyed,

You have touched so far, the complete canonicity but what I said is the completion of the scripture. The “All scripture…” referred to as by Paul excluding the speaking of tongue is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction (2 Timothy 3:16) and it is called the “holy scriptures” (2 Timothy 3:15). Take note that as of AD 67 and by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Paul didn’t even mention tongue speaking but the primacy of the Preaching of the word. “Preach the Word” as an exhortation to young Timothy. I believe the 66 books of the Bible and the last written book is the book of Revelation written by the Apostle John in the Isle of Patmos dating around 95AD. Indeed, the great mark of canonicity was apostolicity. Apostles were eye-witnesses (Luke 1:2; 1 John 1:3; 2 Peter 1:16). Your canon only answers which writings are genuine scriptures. Actually, the collection of the New Testament books was obviously being compiled before 70AD (2 Peter 3:15-16). Its earliest circulation is as early as 60AD (Colossians 4:16). In other words, the New Testaments were “canonized” as they were written and circulated. Jesus said to John, he has to write it in a book and to send them to the 7 churches of Asia, thus the canon of the scripture.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

I have given you so far 3 verses or passage of the Bible the necessity of the Preaching of the Word or the Gospel without the gift of speaking in tongues for salvation and growth of the saints. (2 Timothy 3:5-16; Colossians 4:16 Revelation 1:11).

Now you said: since believers do not even agree on what a completed canon looks like, you are making things up

Not unless you believe and accept Apocrypha and Pseudographa, I cannot do otherwise or perhaps what you may trying to infer here is that the canon of the scriptures being determined which writings “measured up” as real scripture that was settled between 200AD and 400AD and was finalized in the Synod of Laodicea (363AD) and the first complete listing was given by Athanasius in an Easter Letter written in 367 AD. That the Council of Hippo (393AD) decreed 27 Book canon and that the Council of Carthage(419AD) re-affirmed the New Testament canon yet this process was done in the 2nd Ce. and 4th Ce. because of the prevalent heretical writings produced by heretical teachers sometimes published in the name of an apostle (cp. 2 Thess. 2:2). Canonization, btw, was only the recognition of a Book’s God-given authority-it was NOT the giving of the Book its authority.

Again where the completed ALL Scripture written and propagated, the gift in speaking in tongue will cease. Otherwise, there will be more revelations apart from the 66 books.

 

[obedienttogod]

here is obedient's post again without the accidental strikethroughs

obedienttogod, post: 3907321, member: 279371"]This is a very good and astute verse ^ right here:

And it maybe makes some to require putting on their thinking cap, while others should get it right away. But let's look at the importance of this verse, in terms of what Various Kinds of Tongues:

First off, what does Various + Kinds indicate?

VARIOUS:
Various | Define Various at Dictionary.com
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/various
Various definition, of different kinds, as two or more things; differing one from another: Various experiments have not proved his theory. See more.

VARIOUS | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/various
various meaning: 1. many different: 2. several and different: . Learn more.

various | Definition of various in English by Oxford Dictionaries
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/various
Definition of various - different from one another; of different kinds or sorts.


KINDS:

All kinds of definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/all-kinds-of
All kinds of definition: You can use all kinds of to emphasize that there are a great number and variety of...

This one is perfect for Creation and the different kinds deer (mule - white tail - etc), bear (kodiak - black - grizzly - polar -etc), wild cats (Sahara terrain lions - American mountain lions - cougars - cheetah - etc)....the list is almost endless in respect to adding ALL OF THE ((VARIOUS KINDS)) OF Animals per Species. And what I am pasting explains this better in detail:

What Are “Kinds” in Genesis? | Answers in Genesis
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-science/baraminology/what-are-kinds-in-genesis/
Apr 16, 2013 - There is more on this word and its definition and relationship to “kinds” later in this chapter. The Bible uses the term “kind.” The Bible's first use ...


WE CAN EASILY DEDUCT AND CONCLUDE THAT VARIOUS KINDS + TONGUES EASILY MEANS:
There are SEVERAL forms of Tongues:
So we need to use the specific word being used for Tongues, to actually get an even clearer meaning.

1 Corinthians 12:28

γλωσσῶν = of tongues


Different Kinds of Tongues - Bible Knowledge
https://www.bible-knowledge.com/different-kinds-of-tongues/
The gift of tongues is simply the Holy Spirit giving you the supernatural ability to speak in a foreign tongue that you have no knowledge or ability to speak out on your own.

There are two types of tongues He can give you. One is a tongue of this earth. For instance, if your native language is English, then He can give you the ability to speak in Chinese, Japanese, or Spanish.

The other type of tongue that He can give you is a tongue direct from heaven, a heavenly language that is not of this earth. The Bible tells us in 1 Corinthians 13 that there are “tongues of angels.”



Tongues, Gift of Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/tongues-gift-of/
Tongues, Gift of
granted on the day of Pentecost ( Acts 2:4 ), in fulfilment of a promise Christ had made to his disciples ( Mark 16:17 ). What this gift actually was has been a subject of much discussion. Some have argued that it was merely an outward sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit among the disciples, typifying his manifold gifts, and showing that salvation was to be extended to all nations. But the words of Luke ( Acts 2:9 ) clearly show that the various peoples in Jerusalem at the time of Pentecost did really hear themselves addressed in their own special language with which they were naturally acquainted (Compare Joel 2:28 Joel 2:29 ).

Among the gifts of the Spirit the apostle enumerates in 1 Corinthians 12:10-14:30, , "divers kinds of tongues" and the "interpretation of tongues." This "gift" was a different manifestation of the Spirit from that on Pentecost, although it resembled it in many particulars. Tongues were to be "a sign to them that believe not."


Paul literally claims in 1 Corinthians 13:1 that he speaks:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,





***My question to YOU:***

If Paul spoke in the tongues of men, it's obvious that men hearing, could translate and interpret what Paul was saying...
BUT
If Paul spoke in the tongues of Angels (which he claims he could, and if Paul could do it, so can others speak in the tongues of Angels), could men hearing Paul speak in the tongues of Angels be able to understand it and interpret it?

NO, only God could do such a thing.

And Paul explains this ^ in 1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue ((speaketh not unto men)), but unto God: ((for no man understandeth him)); howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Yay!! Thank You very much

 

[obedienttogod]

Paul did not claim to speak in the tongues of angels. Paul used hyperbole to illustrate the superiority of love in knowledge.

Context avoids a pretext that is not supported in Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I wrote that and will answer your post:


First off, Do You agree that Paul wrote 1 Corinthians?

If you do, then Chapter 13 would read like Paul is speaking in a 3rd person format here.
And although I was in a hurry and wrote it incorrectly, my intent was to show that by Paul writing verse 13:1 as he did. He ultimately gave light that it's possible for us to speak in tongues of men and also in Tongues of Angels. By even claiming someone, in this verse where he used the word "I," Paul makes it clear that Speaking in Tongues of Angels is a reality of the believer. He just gave life to the fact that we can speak in Tongues of Angels.

So in a round about way, since it is Paul, who broke Tongues down for everyone. This makes him the authority on it (definitely since we know he claimed what he wrote, taught, preached all was personally instructed to him by Yeshua). But by him claiming this reality of ours to be able to Speak in Tongues of Angels, also reveals that Paul does have personal knowledge (or that he himself has Spoken in the Tongues of Angels). This is obvious, since this portion of 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of Angels, is not followed by (this is impossible). No, it's followed by, if you can Speak in Tongues of Angels + are greedy and not charitable. Then you are wasting your Holy Spirit Gift for it's ultimately doing nothing for God!! It puts me in mind, how Yeshua would give examples of the Pharisees claiming they were hypocrites.

But for the purpose of this thread topic, Paul does prove that we can Speak in Tongues of Angels!!

 

[UnderGrace]

Paul is using hyperbole to make the rhetorical and practical point that even as a very paramount point of the spectrum it would not compare to love.....smh

This is quite obvious.

I wrote that and will answer your post:


First off, Do You agree that Paul wrote 1 Corinthians?

If you do, then Chapter 13 would read like Paul is speaking in a 3rd person format here.
And although I was in a hurry and wrote it incorrectly, my intent was to show that by Paul writing verse 13:1 as he did. He ultimately gave light that it's possible for us to speak in tongues of men and also in Tongues of Angels. By even claiming someone, in this verse where he used the word "I," Paul makes it clear that Speaking in Tongues of Angels is a reality of the believer. He just gave life to the fact that we can speak in Tongues of Angels.

So in a round about way, since it is Paul, who broke Tongues down for everyone. This makes him the authority on it (definitely since we know he claimed what he wrote, taught, preached all was personally instructed to him by Yeshua). But by him claiming this reality of ours to be able to Speak in Tongues of Angels, also reveals that Paul does have personal knowledge (or that he himself has Spoken in the Tongues of Angels). This is obvious, since this portion of 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of Angels, is not followed by (this is impossible). No, it's followed by, if you can Speak in Tongues of Angels + are greedy and not charitable. Then you are wasting your Holy Spirit Gift for it's ultimately doing nothing for God!! It puts me in mind, how Yeshua would give examples of the Pharisees claiming they were hypocrites.

But for the purpose of this thread topic, Paul does prove that we can Speak in Tongues of Angels!!

 

[Kavik]

As others mentioned the whole "tongues of angels" thing is textbook hyperbole.

With respect to "various kinds of tongues" -

First, put this in a more modern form: "various kinds of languages".

For 'kinds', the word 'genos' is used. It does mean 'kinds/types', but with the connotation of belonging to a family (it's the same root in the word 'genealogy'); thus, "various kinds of languages" with the understanding that said 'kinds of languages' belong to various types/kinds of language families - Paul is not describing glossolalia here, but rather real, rational languages.

 

[posthuman]

As others mentioned the whole "tongues of angels" thing is textbook hyperbole.

if it's not, it's plural, so wouldn't that mean there are hundreds - maybe thousands - of different angel languages, like they went through some tower-of-Babel event too, and angels from one side of heaven can't understand what angels on another side of heaven say, without an interpreter?

 

[garee]

You have touched so far, the complete canonicity but what I said is the completion of the scripture. The “All scripture…” referred to as by Paul excluding the speaking of tongue is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction (2 Timothy 3:16) and it is called the “holy scriptures” (2 Timothy 3:15). Take note that as of AD 67 and by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Paul didn’t even mention tongue speaking but the primacy of the Preaching of the word. “Preach the Word” as an exhortation to young Timothy. I believe the 66 books of the Bible and the last written book is the book of Revelation written by the Apostle John in the Isle of Patmos dating around 95AD. Indeed, the great mark of canonicity was apostolicity. Apostles were eye-witnesses (Luke 1:2; 1 John 1:3; 2 Peter 1:16). Your canon only answers which writings are genuine scriptures. Actually, the collection of the New Testament books was obviously being compiled before 70AD (2 Peter 3:15-16). Its earliest circulation is as early as 60AD (Colossians 4:16). In other words, the New Testaments were “canonized” as they were written and circulated. Jesus said to John, he has to write it in a book and to send them to the 7 churches of Asia, thus the canon of the scripture.

Three thousand people were saved by hearing of prophecy, or hearing of faith through the manner of tongues. How can you say that the manner of tongues is not prophecy when 3000 souls would disagree ?

What is canonicity . The work of God gathering together a collection of his inspired books ?

Apostolicity what is it?

 

[garee]

if it's not, it's plural, so wouldn't that mean there are hundreds - maybe thousands - of different angel languages, like they went through some tower-of-Babel event too, and angels from one side of heaven can't understand what angels on another side of heaven say, without an interpreter?

Angels as messengers of God are assigned as their language to bring the interpretation of God called scripture.They have no language of their own.They are messengers not authors or finishers of a faith that comes from hearing God. They are not subject to the gospel but long to look into the gospel language .The language of the gospel is designed for mankind is like a foreign tongue to them seeing the gospel has no effect on them .

The gospel was designed for mankind.

The fallen angels bring the messengers of the father of lies.That band of angels is called legion, as in many.

 

[Kavik]

I have no doubt that angelic beings communicate with each other - there's no reason to think not; however, to get a bit 'esoteric' here, given that they are pure spirit, 'light beings', if you will, I highly doubt said communication is done with anything that remotely resembles a human vocal tract.

If there is indeed a heavenly language, there would be absolutely no logical reason why there would ever be a need for more than just one. The conditions which resulted in the development of multi languages on earth, I highly doubt exist on the heavenly/spiritual plane.

It is interesting to note that, given how modern tongues are produced, no two tongues-speakers will ever have the same 'tongue'; each speaker has his/her own unique form of glossolalia.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No one is anti tongues, as prophecy from God. We have the whole Bible, the perfect law of God with nothing missing by which we could know Him more adequately . Do you need more than he has revealed in order to maintain faith? Once you study and confirm what the sign of tongues confirms the rest of the doctrine. God mocking those who mock him with stammering lips will fall in to place.

Start in Isaiah 28 the foundation of the doctrine rather than coming in the back door. You could miss the introduction..

sigh

you constantly conflate prophecy with tongues

not to confuse even more (prob impossible though), tongues can be prophetic

prophecy is not tongues in the sense in which you seem to scramble it all together

now folks have been working on this with you for months I think, so I don't hold out much hope but there yah go

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Hi 7seasrekeyed,

You have touched so far, the complete canonicity but what I said is the completion of the scripture. The “All scripture…” referred to as by Paul excluding the speaking of tongue is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction (2 Timothy 3:16) and it is called the “holy scriptures” (2 Timothy 3:15). Take note that as of AD 67 and by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Paul didn’t even mention tongue speaking but the primacy of the Preaching of the word. “Preach the Word” as an exhortation to young Timothy. I believe the 66 books of the Bible and the last written book is the book of Revelation written by the Apostle John in the Isle of Patmos dating around 95AD. Indeed, the great mark of canonicity was apostolicity. Apostles were eye-witnesses (Luke 1:2; 1 John 1:3; 2 Peter 1:16). Your canon only answers which writings are genuine scriptures. Actually, the collection of the New Testament books was obviously being compiled before 70AD (2 Peter 3:15-16). Its earliest circulation is as early as 60AD (Colossians 4:16). In other words, the New Testaments were “canonized” as they were written and circulated. Jesus said to John, he has to write it in a book and to send them to the 7 churches of Asia, thus the canon of the scripture.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

I have given you so far 3 verses or passage of the Bible the necessity of the Preaching of the Word or the Gospel without the gift of speaking in tongues for salvation and growth of the saints. (2 Timothy 3:5-16; Colossians 4:16 Revelation 1:11).

Now you said: since believers do not even agree on what a completed canon looks like, you are making things up

Not unless you believe and accept Apocrypha and Pseudographa, I cannot do otherwise or perhaps what you may trying to infer here is that the canon of the scriptures being determined which writings “measured up” as real scripture that was settled between 200AD and 400AD and was finalized in the Synod of Laodicea (363AD) and the first complete listing was given by Athanasius in an Easter Letter written in 367 AD. That the Council of Hippo (393AD) decreed 27 Book canon and that the Council of Carthage(419AD) re-affirmed the New Testament canon yet this process was done in the 2nd Ce. and 4th Ce. because of the prevalent heretical writings produced by heretical teachers sometimes published in the name of an apostle (cp. 2 Thess. 2:2). Canonization, btw, was only the recognition of a Book’s God-given authority-it was NOT the giving of the Book its authority.

Again where the completed ALL Scripture written and propagated, the gift in speaking in tongue will cease. Otherwise, there will be more revelations apart from the 66 books.

oh yes I understood you

no I am not making things up

there are a good number of books that have been excluded from the canon of scripture in the Bible most Christians...but not all...have on hand

many Christians think some of those books should have been included...many do not

do a little research before telling someone they are making things up