Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[FollowHisSteps]

Why would I get angry with you?
This seems to me to be a works Gospel seeping in with your post. So it's OUR enduring, and NOT Jesus Christ that saves us?

I do not understand this sentence.
Jesus calls us to such a great salvation, to being with Him, to having a cleansed heart, to walking
in love and truth, being in the light, knowing that above everything His word is eternal and true.

Yet to fall into sin, to become defiled, to walk in evil and the ways of the world that leads to death,
should be ignored, as if the believer is a true purified vessel, and God should embrace them as a
member of the Kingdom of heaven, when they are obviously neither a member of the Kingdom, or
desiring to walk in it.

Salvation in this sentence is universalism where anyone is saved, despite their standing in God.
The excuse is they once had some faith, so they are now eternal, except how and what this is, is not
understood or can be shown. No scripture exists that God saves the defiled and lost at judgement,
rather only the righteous who stand in Christ.

Love is our heart, love of God and His ways our breath, the cross and sacrifice, bearing pain and loving
through it our hallmark, enduring unto death to testify to the love of our King, our passion.
This change is eternal, undefeated, overcoming, victorious.

Yet those who are not like this, are also saved, also know Jesus, who are defeated, sinning wilfully, without
faith, honour or integrity, yet God will ignore all this, and say they are faithful in Jesus, even when they are
not. Only reprobates who want to excuse evil and sin believe like this, because their hearts are not purified
and cleansed and they only sin in others the same sin they dwell with, and believe, literally they are saved
so must all the other failing sinners around them.

 

[Absolutely]

interesting but I do disagree with a few points

1. The apostles didn't receive the Holy Ghost twice.

I do not believe they received The Holy Spirit twice, I believe the Bible shows they received Holy Spirit In them and the Holy Spirit Came upon them. Same Holy Spirit Different application or work of the Holy Spirit. Now in the Old Testament, The Spirit of God which is the Holy Spirit would come upon a person and then depart Samson is one you can read about in Judges 13-16. For the Christian
AS John 14 says Jesus Speaking the Holy Spirit will be with you and IN YOU. and come alongside you as the Comforter. Same Holy Spirit different working of HIM.

2. The word saved simply means "delivered" and/or "protected".

Saved the word means in context to Rom 10:9-10 is SOZO
to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):--heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Saved is not only delivered or protect. The context of Rom 10:9-13 is not that, it is in context faith in Christ which produces a confession for salvation and belief into a right relationship with God.

Salvation means sótéria in the Greek which is: welfare, prosperity, deliverance, preservation, salvation, safety.

The parable of the 10 virgins shows the outpouring/receiving as a continuous supply.
They ,all 10,were saved / virgins / undefiled / christians,but 5 ran low,then completely out of oil/the Holy Spirit.
Then they asked the 5 wise to impart some of theirs. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is received,then MAINTAINED in a continual flow. A river of power and life to be shared.

Likewise the job of the worship leader in the congregation is to bring the congregation into the Holy of Holies.
Into His presence. Where infilling,refreshing and power is imparted over and over.

It is a flow.

 

[Absolutely]

I think it was your MOM'S body that did ALL the work to birth you. SHE was the one in labor pains and pushed to birth you. You are the result of HER work and efforts. And we all know you didn't have anything to do with your conception as well! lol

SAME as your Spiritual Birth. You were nothing. DEAD. UNABLE to conceive yourself.

Matthew 8:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Obviously Jesus wasn't talking about a physically dead person having the ability to bury another physically dead person.
Ephesians 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

So this is the position we are in:
1 Corinthians 2:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

UNTIL!!!!! The Father reaches out and rescues the person by...

John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 NO ONE can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

THEN, it is the LORD that enables us to believe by giving us the faith to believe in Him:

Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, AND THAT(the faith) not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Culminating in your Spiritual Birth by believing THE Gospel unto Salvation.
Romans 10:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Being filled AND sealed by the Holy Spirit AT THE TIME OF THIS BIRTH:
Ephesians 1:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


So seeing how it was the Lord that rescued you from your dead state, conceiving you, drawing you to Him in labor pains, through patience, giving you the faith by which you were born, and putting His Holy Spirit in you at that time, I ask again, what participation did you have in your Spiritual Birth?

Now go to acts where recieving the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a COMPLETELY SEPARATE experience through the laying on of hands.

Stop cherry picking.

One instance recorded in acts, a man received the Holy Spirit BEFORE salvation.

Do you think salvation comes by laying on of hands?

 

[Absolutely]

I do not understand this sentence.
Jesus calls us to such a great salvation, to being with Him, to having a cleansed heart, to walking
in love and truth, being in the light, knowing that above everything His word is eternal and true.

Yet to fall into sin, to become defiled, to walk in evil and the ways of the world that leads to death,
should be ignored, as if the believer is a true purified vessel, and God should embrace them as a
member of the Kingdom of heaven, when they are obviously neither a member of the Kingdom, or
desiring to walk in it.

Salvation in this sentence is universalism where anyone is saved, despite their standing in God.
The excuse is they once had some faith, so they are now eternal, except how and what this is, is not
understood or can be shown. No scripture exists that God saves the defiled and lost at judgement,
rather only the righteous who stand in Christ.

Love is our heart, love of God and His ways our breath, the cross and sacrifice, bearing pain and loving
through it our hallmark, enduring unto death to testify to the love of our King, our passion.
This change is eternal, undefeated, overcoming, victorious.

Yet those who are not like this, are also saved, also know Jesus, who are defeated, sinning wilfully, without
faith, honour or integrity, yet God will ignore all this, and say they are faithful in Jesus, even when they are
not. Only reprobates who want to excuse evil and sin believe like this, because their hearts are not purified
and cleansed and they only sin in others the same sin they dwell with, and believe, literally they are saved
so must all the other failing sinners around them.

They could repent and recieve cleansing and restoration.
What do you tell them?

 

[Absolutely]

Of course you do not get the meaning of the passage because you come to it with a preconceived answer. Jesus is promising that the disciples will receive what they ask of the Father when they pray to Him of their needs. The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to those who are saved when they are saved.

You refuse instruction as if you have no need of sound doctrine. I must pity you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Acts TOTALLY,VIVIDLY refutes that

 

[Absolutely]

I wish that in addition to being able to ignore someone so you cant see their posts, we would be able to also block them from seeing ours.

Lol

 

[FollowHisSteps]

They could repent and recieve cleansing and restoration.
What do you tell them?

If people repent and are restored to Christ, they are saved and there is great rejoicing in heaven.
It is no mystery what restored believers are told.

The real problem here in discussing these subjects is only those who have purified hearts, truly
know what it is about. Jesus simply said we can only see the issues when the plank is taken out
of our hearts, so we can distinguish between the important issues and those which are just ideas
or not relevant.

 

[Absolutely]

And also in Mark c16-v17, here is a teaching from a man whose ministry has, and is bringing me to a great walk with out Lord.

blessings

That diagram he uses @ 29;00 is pivotal to this debate.
Nice post sir....great vid.

 

[Absolutely]

If people repent and are restored to Christ, they are saved and there is great rejoicing in heaven.
It is no mystery what restored believers are told.

The real problem here in discussing these subjects is only those who have purified hearts, truly
know what it is about. Jesus simply said we can only see the issues when the plank is taken out
of our hearts, so we can distinguish between the important issues and those which are just ideas
or not relevant.

The sign of a mature humbled saint is his readiness and ability to repent,not a self righteous saint that supposedly is above comitting a sin because he has some perfect heart.

Continual cleansing is the lifeflow of a vibrant life in Christ.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Matthew 24:13

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew preached the Gospel to the Jewish community in Judea. Matt 24:13 was addressed to the Jews. The whole chapter talks about the great tribulation. To the Jews, salvation is faith and works, especially during the great tribulation where they will do a lot of works, cleansing themselves with the blood of Jesus by becoming martyrs for Jesus.

Rev 22:14 - addressed to tribulation saints or the jews/work based salvation

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Wansvic]

I do not understand this sentence.
Jesus calls us to such a great salvation, to being with Him, to having a cleansed heart, to walking
in love and truth, being in the light, knowing that above everything His word is eternal and true.

Yet to fall into sin, to become defiled, to walk in evil and the ways of the world that leads to death,
should be ignored, as if the believer is a true purified vessel, and God should embrace them as a
member of the Kingdom of heaven, when they are obviously neither a member of the Kingdom, or
desiring to walk in it.

Salvation in this sentence is universalism where anyone is saved, despite their standing in God.
The excuse is they once had some faith, so they are now eternal, except how and what this is, is not
understood or can be shown. No scripture exists that God saves the defiled and lost at judgement,
rather only the righteous who stand in Christ.

Love is our heart, love of God and His ways our breath, the cross and sacrifice, bearing pain and loving
through it our hallmark, enduring unto death to testify to the love of our King, our passion.
This change is eternal, undefeated, overcoming, victorious.

Yet those who are not like this, are also saved, also know Jesus, who are defeated, sinning wilfully, without
faith, honour or integrity, yet God will ignore all this, and say they are faithful in Jesus, even when they are
not. Only reprobates who want to excuse evil and sin believe like this, because their hearts are not purified
and cleansed and they only sin in others the same sin they dwell with, and believe, literally they are saved
so must all the other failing sinners around them.

The following scripture came to mind upon reading your post:

1 John 3:7, 9-10
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Wansvic]

The parable of the 10 virgins shows the outpouring/receiving as a continuous supply.
They ,all 10,were saved / virgins / undefiled / christians,but 5 ran low,then completely out of oil/the Holy Spirit.
Then they asked the 5 wise to impart some of theirs. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is received,then MAINTAINED in a continual flow. A river of power and life to be shared.

Likewise the job of the worship leader in the congregation is to bring the congregation into the Holy of Holies.
Into His presence. Where infilling,refreshing and power is imparted over and over.

It is a flow.

The thing in this parable that is puzzling to me is verse 12: "But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not." Matt 25:12

If the five virgins were at one time filled with the Holy Ghost then the bridegroom would have surely known them.

Is it plausible that the 5 wise virgins were equipped with lamps to light their way (word of God that the Holy Ghost illuminates), and their vessels (bodies) were indwelt with the oil. (the Holy Ghost) Matt 25:4

Whereas the foolish virgins neglected to have oil (the Holy Ghost) inside their vessels. (bodies) Matt 25:3

This concept would seem to line-up with the Holy Ghost dwelling with someone, rather than inside of them.

Matt 25:1-4
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
KJV

 

[garee]

Matthew 24:13

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew preached the Gospel to the Jewish community in Judea. Matt 24:13 was addressed to the Jews. The whole chapter talks about the great tribulation. To the Jews, salvation is faith and works, especially during the great tribulation where they will do a lot of works, cleansing themselves with the blood of Jesus by becoming martyrs for Jesus.

Rev 22:14 - addressed to tribulation saints or the jews/work based salvation

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I would offer we do not wrestles against the things seen "flesh and blood", "nation against nation". Jesus defeated that foe. The dividing wall fell never to rise... the veil is rent. The reformation had come 2000 years ago. . Its restoring law... as it is written (sola scriptura), it is still doing its purifying work in the hearts of men, continually

A person cannot do the commandments (not suggestions) unless he or she is first turned to hear the voice of one not seen . Its not the voice of familiarity as if God was a man as us . But the voice of manna, a word that literally means ;"What is it " Called hidden manna in Revelation the kind of signified language God uses in parables to hide the unseen truth form those who are not drawn.

Familiarity, which can lead to taking things for granted (luke warmness) can breed hatred and murder. His own family hated him not blessing him. His faithless extended family of outward Jews crucified Him because they had some sort of idea that God is a man as us .And like many times when Christ would hide the spiritual understand of a parable, in their un belief they would start looking for another leader and play "Who is the greatest" please stand up . Jesus performed that in Luke 9 to help them understand what it does mean to walk by faith. They were walking in the upside down manner of spirit looking to the things seen. The temporal.

God whose name is Jealous will not share his hidden glory with the creature. Even Jesus refused to be a apart of the abomination of desecration the "temporal" standing in the holy place of glory. When called good master . He gave glory to the unseen father and said only God (not seen ) is Good . In that way we are to call no man on earth teacher just as in the same way we are to call no man on earth father one is in heaven not see. He would not take on the role as a daysman man or what we know as a Pope and destroy the Holy Place reserved for the incorruptible creation .This is when there will be no Sun and Moon and his glory will be revealed. No more darkness as night.

God puts no difference between a outward or what the eyes see Jew and a gentile .Both coming as beast of the field as corrupted flesh and blood formed from the same clay . What we need we desire by walking by faith (our new incorruptible body the goal) .

We can be thankful that his faithfulness is not without work that does continue to work with us yoked with Him... to both will and do the his purpose. Seeing the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God works in us according to His faithfulness to purify the hearts of all flesh. WE can understand, He performs the work that can make our new hearts soft as a rest, our comforter, our confidence..

Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV)And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[garee]

The thing in this parable that is puzzling to me is verse 12: "But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not." Matt 25:12

If the five virgins were at one time filled with the Holy Ghost then the bridegroom would have surely known them.

Is it plausible that the 5 wise virgins were equipped with lamps to light their way (word of God that the Holy Ghost illuminates), and their vessels (bodies) were indwelt with the oil. (the Holy Ghost) Matt 25:4

Whereas the foolish virgins neglected to have oil (the Holy Ghost) inside their vessels. (bodies) Matt 25:3

This concept would seem to line-up with the Holy Ghost dwelling with someone, rather than inside of them.

Matt 25:1-4
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
KJV

I would offer another way of looking at that parable. First the word virgin I beleive is used to represent the bride of Christ, the church, new creature. His chaste virgin wife. She is typified using Timothy to represent what we will be, and Paul as the surrogate womb of Christianity (the mother us of all. Galatian 4, Happy mothers day..... Christianity

2 Corinthians 11:2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Paul offering the teaching of Christ as the spiritual seed that worked in Timothy as Christ did the work in Timothy forming it.

10 in mutibles ,100, 1000, 10,000 etc represent a unknown or that which is not revealed. While 5 in the same way in multibles is used as a metaphor in parables to represent redemption . The five that were redeemed entered in.

 

[Wansvic]

I would offer another way of looking at that parable. First the word virgin I beleive is used to represent the bride of Christ, the church, new creature. His chaste virgin wife. She is typified using Timothy to represent what we will be, and Paul as the surrogate womb of Christianity (the mother us of all. Galatian 4, Happy mothers day..... Christianity

2 Corinthians 11:2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Paul offering the teaching of Christ as the spiritual seed that worked in Timothy as Christ did the work in Timothy forming it.

10 in mutibles ,100, 1000, 10,000 etc represent a unknown or that which is not revealed. While 5 in the same way in multibles is used as a metaphor in parables to represent redemption . The five that were redeemed entered in.

It is clear that the virgins represent what is considered the people who make up the church body. However, five virgins have made themselves ready for the return of the bridegroom (Rev 9:7) and the other five did not; thus, they were left behind.
The question, Were the five virgins unknown to the bridegroom and left behind because they had not been infilled with the Holy Ghost?
It would be helpful if your answer just remained focused on the question.

 

[garee]

It is clear that the virgins represent what is considered the people who make up the church body. However, five virgins have made themselves ready for the return of the bridegroom (Rev 9:7) and the other five did not; thus, they were left behind.
The question, Were the five virgins unknown to the bridegroom and left behind because they had not been infilled with the Holy Ghost?
It would be helpful if your answer just remained focused on the question.

Yes they had no faith represented by oil. Like the froward generation or the evil generation that walks after the things seen the temporal as signs and wonders. And not the faith principle, the things not seen the eternal. The froward or pagan nations of the world.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

 

[Absolutely]

The thing in this parable that is puzzling to me is verse 12: "But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not." Matt 25:12

If the five virgins were at one time filled with the Holy Ghost then the bridegroom would have surely known them.

Is it plausible that the 5 wise virgins were equipped with lamps to light their way (word of God that the Holy Ghost illuminates), and their vessels (bodies) were indwelt with the oil. (the Holy Ghost) Matt 25:4

Whereas the foolish virgins neglected to have oil (the Holy Ghost) inside their vessels. (bodies) Matt 25:3

This concept would seem to line-up with the Holy Ghost dwelling with someone, rather than inside of them.

Matt 25:1-4
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
KJV

The setting is pre marriage chamber,then marriage chamber.
Intimacy.

"Know" in this setting is concerning intimacy.
It,(know) is used in the same context where it says " ...Mary knew no man,", referring to her virginity.
It is used elsewhere in the bible referring to having/not having sex.

That is why Jesus said it.
It is like a earthly marriage where the spouse is married by contract only. No intimacy.
Many,if not majority of believers do not ever get into His presence in worship. Where you are caught up into another realm.
In the recent ('96 to '01) brownsville revival,people would spend thousands of dollars to come for one or two nights,just for that touch from heaven.
It was life changing.
That is the dimension we are to live in.
His manifest presence.
Most worship leaders do not even know their job.
It is to bring the congregation into the HOH.
That is the contrast of wise/foolish virgins.
IOW How will we be caught? Embarrassed,or in the spirit.

 

[Absolutely]

It is clear that the virgins represent what is considered the people who make up the church body. However, five virgins have made themselves ready for the return of the bridegroom (Rev 9:7) and the other five did not; thus, they were left behind.
The question, Were the five virgins unknown to the bridegroom and left behind because they had not been infilled with the Holy Ghost?
It would be helpful if your answer just remained focused on the question.

Correct. All 10 are saved.
Good insight. Many have tried to make it say something else.
Nice to see someone got it right.

 

[Absolutely]

Matthew 24:13

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew preached the Gospel to the Jewish community in Judea. Matt 24:13 was addressed to the Jews. The whole chapter talks about the great tribulation. To the Jews, salvation is faith and works, especially during the great tribulation where they will do a lot of works, cleansing themselves with the blood of Jesus by becoming martyrs for Jesus.

Rev 22:14 - addressed to tribulation saints or the jews/work based salvation

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

There is no works based salvation.
Nobody preached such a gospel.
The gospel is JESUS SAVES.
No such thing as another gospel.

Thats like saying a child becomes part of the family through some set of duties,ordinances etc.
They are born into a family. And afterwards they do things,but those things do not change their pedigree.


There is no law based gospel to the jews.

 

[Wansvic]

Correct. All 10 are saved.
Good insight. Many have tried to make it say something else.
Nice to see someone got it right.

I was actually making the case that five were lost. The bridegroom came and took five but announced He did not know the other five.