SIN DOESN'T MATTER: CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS CLAIM?

[CeileDe]

She is not someone who can be corrected. Been there, done that. The chat room is her forum to teach her nonsense. My concern is for other newer believers or seekers who tune in to her hours long teaching sessions.

I understand where you are coming from. But is this the right way to go about it. Is it possible, in the slightest, that it was a miscommunication?

Far as the cat speaking to her. I did see her response to that and she explained it. Now at the time it might have seemed like she was being serious. You also mention other members who witnessed what had taken place. Why aren't they making a big deal about it? How come they aren't they screaming from the mountain tops and calling her out?

I just think it is a miscommunication issue and can easily be settled. You also said a moderator was in there. If what she did was against any rules on this forum you would think he/she would have stepped in and said something.

 

[Stephen63]

This is such an inverted slander and accusation of sinning against the op, it makes me laugh.
It is like a squid ink attack on the innocent victim, confusing the issues and claiming they
are harming the body of Christ, how dare they say sin does matter.

The lie is compounded by the truth he believes all sin is forgiven therefore repentance from
sin is irrelevant. Everything is just good works, in Christ or anti-Christ and boy are these
anti-Christ good works going to get fried. They are just soooooooo evil going around doing
good but it is sooooooo bad if it is not Christian, even if they are seriously helping people
for dying, it is really sooooooo evil.

I seriously hate this double deception, superior jumping in, the arrogance, the self effacing
judgementalism and cheek to feel one has the right to humiliate another contributor who is
sharing a valid problem, sin matters, evil destroys and everyone needs to repent of it.

AMEN!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PeterJens again.

 

[Stephen63]

I agree...sometimes we can take a part of what someone says and it is out of context and then it's twisted to say something that without the context - makes it into something else entirely then what it would if the context was given.

That is a common tactic of the self-proclaimed heretic hunters that don't agree with some one on a doctrinal issue so they twist it to make "appear" to be something else then what it actually is.

And sometimes - there is a disagreement on some things. It happens but at the very least we should not be deceitful and say what is really being said.

Sometimes we don't always hear what people are actually really saying. We sometimes only hear what we "assume" they are saying or others have said that they saying - which of course could be twisted.

Who would know more about twisting than you?

Anybody that would dare twist the meaning of a lexicon indeed knows how to twist things

 

[Magenta]

I don't like yolks.

 

[twofeet]

She is not someone who can be corrected. Been there, done that. The chat room is her forum to teach her nonsense. My concern is for other newer believers or seekers who tune in to her hours long teaching sessions.

I have recently been training a new lady at work. It hasn't been easy trying to do my own job and fit in training her as well .I know If I dont do it well she may decide the job is not for her and in turn leave me coping until they replace her. After 2 days of training her I sat praying to the Lord and He said to me " Love is patient, Love is kind. You are doing these things at work with this new lady. However, Love is also not self seeking and your motive for being patient and kind to her are selfish ones.They are for your benefit and not hers. You are not walking in perfect love. You need to correct your heart." After repenting and thanking God for His correction I went into work the next day focused on her, praying in my heart for her that she would fit in well with the rest of the staff, praying that she would enjoy this work, praying that she would understand it well. Any Christian who worked in my office would never had seen the difference from my outward show from the beginning of the week to the end of the week. All they would have seen is someone taking time out of their own work to be patient and kind to a new person. But the outward show in my life is not relevant, its my heart God instructs. Its my heart God corrects because its only by circumcision of the heart does a person belong to the Lord. So when you say "I am not some one who can be corrected" I think God may have a different opinion on that one to you.

As for new believers, I too am concerned. Many times I have witnessed to people who have had a taste of religion and ate of that fruit of "GOOD and EVIL head knowledge". They cannot see past the religion to let God instruct their heart, instead they have to study and read and go round in circles of what they think it means arguing with other christians with debate after debate wondering what they can or cant do because they is no freedom. They spend hours talking about sin instead of trusting that God will instruct their heart if they have done something wrong. And that's the key to the issue...trusting God with their Salvation, trusting God to clean them up. So they continue to try figure it out themselves with nothing but divisions constantly munching on that Tree of knowledge of "is it good? or is it Evil? I want no part of that fruit, I would rather talk about Jesus and keep my eyes on Him as He keeps His story straight every time. I do not want to take part in the never ending focus of sin. Whatever you focus on will become your idol.

And then there are the lost of this world who come into chat who mention "A" sin in their life and all those munching on those "Good and Evil" fruit tell them they need to repent of that sin. FABOULOUS!!!!! Lets tell that person to go clean that dirty mark off their face when actually they are covered in mud from head to foot and need a bath! I may as well be in work watching people change their lives around to fit in to society better. Yes, lets "clean them up" so they can be accepted better into society or if really lucky may be nice enough now to attend church but their hearts are still far away from God. "You need to stop that sin in your life!!! You need to repent!!! " you yell......so they think "ok, yeah, I be a better person if I stop stealing or lying. I might get more friends or a good job". That is not the good news of Jesus, thats a self help group teaching them to eat from that tree of "good and evil". When Jesus spoke to the woman caught in adultery He never said " now stop sleeping around" or "don't do it again" He said " sin no more". Jesus is in the business of building His kingdom, not a better society. A kingdom of hearts set apart for Him, hearts that do not compromise on the slightest of sin so therefore those people have no interest in spending hours upon hours discussing sin.

Its about the heart. Its ALL about a heart for Him. Totally, without excuse. A slave to righteousness.

If you want to call what I've said "false teaching" or "hyper-grace" you go ahead. If I am incorrect in what I believe and How God instructs my heart where is your love and concern for me? Have you tried emailing me "hey sister I need to explain some things to you" or "can you please explain what I heard in chat the other day? Can you tell me where you are coming from?"

The fruits of the spirit are "love, joy and peace" are they not? And is not the greatest of these love?

 

[CeileDe]

I have recently been training a new lady at work. It hasn't been easy trying to do my own job and fit in training her as well .I know If I dont do it well she may decide the job is not for her and in turn leave me coping until they replace her. After 2 days of training her I sat praying to the Lord and He said to me " Love is patient, Love is kind. You are doing these things at work with this new lady. However, Love is also not self seeking and your motive for being patient and kind to her are selfish ones.They are for your benefit and not hers. You are not walking in perfect love. You need to correct your heart." After repenting and thanking God for His correction I went into work the next day focused on her, praying in my heart for her that she would fit in well with the rest of the staff, praying that she would enjoy this work, praying that she would understand it well. Any Christian who worked in my office would never had seen the difference from my outward show from the beginning of the week to the end of the week. All they would have seen is someone taking time out of their own work to be patient and kind to a new person. But the outward show in my life is not relevant, its my heart God instructs. Its my heart God corrects because its only by circumcision of the heart does a person belong to the Lord. So when you say "I am not some one who can be corrected" I think God may have a different opinion on that one to you.

As for new believers, I too am concerned. Many times I have witnessed to people who have had a taste of religion and ate of that fruit of "GOOD and EVIL head knowledge". They cannot see past the religion to let God instruct their heart, instead they have to study and read and go round in circles of what they think it means arguing with other christians with debate after debate wondering what they can or cant do because they is no freedom. They spend hours talking about sin instead of trusting that God will instruct their heart if they have done something wrong. And that's the key to the issue...trusting God with their Salvation, trusting God to clean them up. So they continue to try figure it out themselves with nothing but divisions constantly munching on that Tree of knowledge of "is it good? or is it Evil? I want no part of that fruit, I would rather talk about Jesus and keep my eyes on Him as He keeps His story straight every time. I do not want to take part in the never ending focus of sin. Whatever you focus on will become your idol.

And then there are the lost of this world who come into chat who mention "A" sin in their life and all those munching on those "Good and Evil" fruit tell them they need to repent of that sin. FABOULOUS!!!!! Lets tell that person to go clean that dirty mark off their face when actually they are covered in mud from head to foot and need a bath! I may as well be in work watching people change their lives around to fit in to society better. Yes, lets "clean them up" so they can be accepted better into society or if really lucky may be nice enough now to attend church but their hearts are still far away from God. "You need to stop that sin in your life!!! You need to repent!!! " you yell......so they think "ok, yeah, I be a better person if I stop stealing or lying. I might get more friends or a good job". That is not the good news of Jesus, thats a self help group teaching them to eat from that tree of "good and evil". When Jesus spoke to the woman caught in adultery He never said " now stop sleeping around" or "don't do it again" He said " sin no more". Jesus is in the business of building His kingdom, not a better society. A kingdom of hearts set apart for Him, hearts that do not compromise on the slightest of sin so therefore those people have no interest in spending hours upon hours discussing sin.

Its about the heart. Its ALL about a heart for Him. Totally, without excuse. A slave to righteousness.

If you want to call what I've said "false teaching" or "hyper-grace" you go ahead. If I am incorrect in what I believe and How God instructs my heart where is your love and concern for me? Have you tried emailing me "hey sister I need to explain some things to you" or "can you please explain what I heard in chat the other day? Can you tell me where you are coming from?"

The fruits of the spirit are "love, joy and peace" are they not? And is not the greatest of these love?

Amen. I believe in the end God will work this out.

 

[followjesus]

I've heard some professed teachers say sin doesn't matter.

Can you believe these teachers?

No.

Since sin doesn't matter, they have no concern with lying. Therefore, they are not valid sources of information. Their claim is a contradiction.

Reading the apostolic writings should tell you otherwise anyways.

I am surprised when such individuals are respected by some as teachers, though. No, not really...some Christians are gullible.

I am not a legalist, either, and I do believe in grace. I do not believe real Christians should live in condemnation, either. To claim that sin doesn't matter, though, is a statement that cannot be believed, though, because the person demonstrates by their presupposition that they do not value the truth.

Satan is such a bad liar

its actually a very common false doctrine spoken in many different ways that sin is no longer sin, or it doesnt matter what you do right or wrong, as long as you claim to believe. it has been the lie from the garden of eden. God told adam the truth " you must not eat this fruit or you will surely die"...along came the devil. to question and then twist what God had said, it has always and will always be the way of satan to deceive people into thinking Gods Word isnt true or isnt valid, or doesnt apply to you. anything He can do to convince people to ignore Gods Word and follow His deception.

Sadly it seems as if Gods Word is what doesnt matter to so many modern believers. Humanism transforms the word into what sinful man wants to hear, and eliminates what sinful man doesnt want to hear..things like "God says we must repent of sin" becomes a terrible judgemental thing to say. or Jesus says " if you Love me you will obey my word, if you do not love me you will not obey my word." this then is distorted to " legalism" because we wantto say i believe and let that be the end of our commitment and false doctrine feeds that into more and more distortions that are needed to support itself so You then get interpretations that exclude truth, exchanging it for what sounds good to the flesh.

Thats where ideas like these come from

the only person who applies to the church is paul, or Jesus taught the Law of moses, or the gospel is limited to Jesus death and resurrection and has nothing to do with His teachings and commands, or everything before the cross doesnt apply, only what is after...so many false angles and interpretations. That part from the simplicity of Hearing and believing what the words clearly says. its simple to understand repentance and obedience , it becomes complex when the majority of " believers" hold the position that were just helpless powerless sinners who cant change our ways, even though God has empowered us to live freely and upright in His sight.

its the trouble when doctrine parts from truth, it removes the power of Gods word to change us, because we distort what is written, thankfully we have the words of Our Lord and Savior to keep us from the many deceptions in the world that in truth deny Gods word and present deception

 

[sparkman]

If someone is not under church authority, and has openly rejected such authority, and is a very strong willed person, there is no chance of them listening to correction in a chat room. Especially when they've vehemently called those who speak against their views "Pharisees".

Enough said. I'm not addressing you any further. Play the victim here if you want. There are many more in the chat room that share the same view.

Maybe you fool others with your claims that clubbing and other immoral behaviors are appropriate for a Christian..you don't fool me. Neither do I believe outrageous charismatic claims concerning raising the dead, casting out demons, or talking to cats.

 

[preacher4truth]

its actually a very common false doctrine spoken in many different ways that sin is no longer sin, or it doesnt matter what you do right or wrong, as long as you claim to believe.

Yep. That system would be called Free Grace Theology and the proponents of that system are Chuck Swindoll, Charles Ryrie, Charles Stanley, Tony Evans and many others. It is also a huge part of the theology at DTS.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yep. That system would be called Free Grace Theology and the proponents of that system are Chuck Swindoll, Charles Ryrie, Charles Stanley, Tony Evans and many others. It is also a huge part of the theology at DTS.

Nonsense. You're no minister of God, you're just another accuser of the Brethren.

 

[preacher4truth]

Nonsense. You're no minister of God, you're just another accuser of the Brethren.

Nope. sorry it's truth and I preach it, but go on ahead, lie and slander, it's you. Any person can look into what FGT teaches, and who the proponents are.

 

[FreeNChrist]

If someone is not under church authority, and has openly rejected such authority, and is a very strong willed person, there is no chance of them listening to correction in a chat room. Especially when they've vehemently called those who speak against their views "Pharisees".

Enough said. I'm not addressing you any further. Play the victim here if you want. There are many more in the chat room that share the same view.

Maybe you fool others with your claims that clubbing and other immoral behaviors are appropriate for a Christian..you don't fool me. Neither do I believe outrageous charismatic claims concerning raising the dead, casting out demons, or talking to cats.

You were under "church authority" at the WWCOG weren't you? How'd that work out for ya??

 

[FreeNChrist]

Nope. sorry it's truth and I preach it, but go on ahead, lie and slander, it's you. Any person can look into what FGT teaches, and who the proponents are.

The lie and slander is to preach that they teach that sin is no longer sin, or it doesn't matter what you do right or wrong, as long as you claim to believe. God help those who you are preaching that crap to.

 

[twofeet]

If someone is not under church authority, and has openly rejected such authority, and is a very strong willed person, there is no chance of them listening to correction in a chat room. Especially when they've vehemently called those who speak against their views "Pharisees".

Enough said. I'm not addressing you any further. Play the victim here if you want. There are many more in the chat room that share the same view.

Maybe you fool others with your claims that clubbing and other immoral behaviors are appropriate for a Christian..you don't fool me. Neither do I believe outrageous charismatic claims concerning raising the dead, casting out demons, or talking to cats.

I am no victim Sparkman, far from it. So tell me which church am I suppose to submit to then in your opinion? Which is the correct one? Do you not think Ive heard the constant debates of who is right and who is wrong with your various teachings? Which is the correct one? When I'm in a church I respect the leadership of that Church, always have done. As for "clubbing" and other "Immoral" behavior I guess when David was dancing he was sinning against God? I had no idea that dancing and music was so bad. I thought God was more interested in my heart rather than have a boogie to a few beats? I guess I should focus more on what music I listen to rather than whether God is instructing my heart to be more loving towards a person even though she was totally unaware of my actions right? You never know, the F# or B flat may corrupt me right? ALL sin comes from a corrupt heart Sparkman and the more you focus on the outward show trying to clean up the white washed tombs on the outside the more you will miss how easy His yolk is.

 

[CeileDe]

I am no victim Sparkman, far from it. So tell me which church am I suppose to submit to then in your opinion? Which is the correct one? Do you not think Ive heard the constant debates of who is right and who is wrong with your various teachings? Which is the correct one? When I'm in a church I respect the leadership of that Church, always have done. As for "clubbing" and other "Immoral" behavior I guess when David was dancing he was sinning against God? I had no idea that dancing and music was so bad. I thought God was more interested in my heart rather than have a boogie to a few beats? I guess I should focus more on what music I listen to rather than whether God is instructing my heart to be more loving towards a person even though she was totally unaware of my actions right? You never know, the F# or B flat may corrupt me right? ALL sin comes from a corrupt heart Sparkman and the more you focus on the outward show trying to clean up the white washed tombs on the outside the more you will miss how easy His yolk is.

So far I see no fault in anything you have said or have done. Keep on boogying to the beat there twofeet. Oops I did a rhyme, is that against anything that I'm not aware of?

 

[dcontroversal]

I am no victim Sparkman, far from it. So tell me which church am I suppose to submit to then in your opinion? Which is the correct one? Do you not think Ive heard the constant debates of who is right and who is wrong with your various teachings? Which is the correct one? When I'm in a church I respect the leadership of that Church, always have done. As for "clubbing" and other "Immoral" behavior I guess when David was dancing he was sinning against God? I had no idea that dancing and music was so bad. I thought God was more interested in my heart rather than have a boogie to a few beats? I guess I should focus more on what music I listen to rather than whether God is instructing my heart to be more loving towards a person even though she was totally unaware of my actions right? You never know, the F# or B flat may corrupt me right? ALL sin comes from a corrupt heart Sparkman and the more you focus on the outward show trying to clean up the white washed tombs on the outside the more you will miss how easy His yolk is.

Did not Paul say...All things are lawful unto me<---not that they are expedient, but LAWFUL

 

[PeterJens]

Did not Paul say...All things are lawful unto me<---not that they are expedient, but LAWFUL

Paul is talking about ceremonial law, dietry law. who you can and cannot eat with, sabbaths,
what defiles you ceremonially etc. He is not talking about the law of Christ.

It is why taking some of his phrases out of context is very dangerous. And in the hands of
anti-legalists, you could justify anything, but anything that contradicts loving your neighbour
is wrong and damaging. But for those with a jaded desire to excuse sin and abuse, any excuse
to make things without condemnation even though they are sinful, to deny the need to repent
and flee from evil, it is just a total compromise with self deception, to claim the kingdom while
denying it by ones lifestyle.

 

[Andycross]

Originally Posted by sparkman

She is not someone who can be corrected. Been there, done that. The chat room is her forum to teach her nonsense. My concern is for other newer believers or seekers who tune in to her hours long teaching sessions.

I have recently been training a new lady at work. It hasn't been easy trying to do my own job and fit in training her as well .I know If I dont do it well she may decide the job is not for her and in turn leave me coping until they replace her. After 2 days of training her I sat praying to the Lord and He said to me " Love is patient, Love is kind. You are doing these things at work with this new lady. However, Love is also not self seeking and your motive for being patient and kind to her are selfish ones.They are for your benefit and not hers. You are not walking in perfect love. You need to correct your heart." After repenting and thanking God for His correction I went into work the next day focused on her, praying in my heart for her that she would fit in well with the rest of the staff, praying that she would enjoy this work, praying that she would understand it well. Any Christian who worked in my office would never had seen the difference from my outward show from the beginning of the week to the end of the week. All they would have seen is someone taking time out of their own work to be patient and kind to a new person. But the outward show in my life is not relevant, its my heart God instructs. Its my heart God corrects because its only by circumcision of the heart does a person belong to the Lord. So when you say "I am not some one who can be corrected" I think God may have a different opinion on that one to you.

As for new believers, I too am concerned. Many times I have witnessed to people who have had a taste of religion and ate of that fruit of "GOOD and EVIL head knowledge". They cannot see past the religion to let God instruct their heart, instead they have to study and read and go round in circles of what they think it means arguing with other christians with debate after debate wondering what they can or cant do because they is no freedom. They spend hours talking about sin instead of trusting that God will instruct their heart if they have done something wrong. And that's the key to the issue...trusting God with their Salvation, trusting God to clean them up. So they continue to try figure it out themselves with nothing but divisions constantly munching on that Tree of knowledge of "is it good? or is it Evil? I want no part of that fruit, I would rather talk about Jesus and keep my eyes on Him as He keeps His story straight every time. I do not want to take part in the never ending focus of sin. Whatever you focus on will become your idol.

And then there are the lost of this world who come into chat who mention "A" sin in their life and all those munching on those "Good and Evil" fruit tell them they need to repent of that sin. FABOULOUS!!!!! Lets tell that person to go clean that dirty mark off their face when actually they are covered in mud from head to foot and need a bath! I may as well be in work watching people change their lives around to fit in to society better. Yes, lets "clean them up" so they can be accepted better into society or if really lucky may be nice enough now to attend church but their hearts are still far away from God. "You need to stop that sin in your life!!! You need to repent!!! " you yell......so they think "ok, yeah, I be a better person if I stop stealing or lying. I might get more friends or a good job". That is not the good news of Jesus, thats a self help group teaching them to eat from that tree of "good and evil". When Jesus spoke to the woman caught in adultery He never said " now stop sleeping around" or "don't do it again" He said " sin no more". Jesus is in the business of building His kingdom, not a better society. A kingdom of hearts set apart for Him, hearts that do not compromise on the slightest of sin so therefore those people have no interest in spending hours upon hours discussing sin.

Its about the heart. Its ALL about a heart for Him. Totally, without excuse. A slave to righteousness.

If you want to call what I've said "false teaching" or "hyper-grace" you go ahead. If I am incorrect in what I believe and How God instructs my heart where is your love and concern for me? Have you tried emailing me "hey sister I need to explain some things to you" or "can you please explain what I heard in chat the other day? Can you tell me where you are coming from?"

The fruits of the spirit are "love, joy and peace" are they not? And is not the greatest of these love?

This is true, instead of putting things up there if you think a person has a problem, It is said "take them to one side privately". If we see someone may have a problem wouldn't it be best to approach them first? Then if your wrong your not going to look silly in-front of Everyone you have told, just because you had some misconceptions, misunderstanding, Or falsely accusing someone.
Not going about saying Hey guys do you think this is right about this person or what this person has said.
Ok so you put it out there, asking everyone what you think. Then its according to what you think, and in other words wanting Everyone to share what you think the problem is.
In the witch trials Many people were accused of Many things, and Many innocent people died, for things like just mixing a herb to get you better, your milk spoiled, you are poor/cannot support yourself.....ect.
Do people not know better today since the 17th century. Or should we go round asking what they think of this person, when they may Clearly have it wrong.

 

[joefizz]

this is all getting funny and odd but hey that's where I decide I've got God and I won't back down in fact I look forward to the challenge first off to our dear sister who is ranting on and desperately trying to not make sense the tree of good and evil is long since gone and adam and eve ate of that tree not anyone today and likewise you have not eaten of the tree of life for it too was taken from adam and eve lest were they to eat of it and become undying once more when they had done wrong and appropriately been punished,and we are not a quote "slave" to righteousness we are the children and humble servants of God,a slave is someone who is forced to serve,a servant is someone who is given the choice to serve or not,HUGE difference,and as far as your grousing about christians you have particularly focused on the people who force religion or correction on to people, those who truely serve God are not such a people we tell you the "Truth" with kindness and understanding and we "Help" those who are our neighbours whether they believe in God or not and "Teach" those wish to learn of the word of God and we "Hope" that those who are led by the "Holy spirit" will "love" God with all their heart,mind,strength,and most importantly SOUL for the SOUL is what is left when our body passes away and can be "saved" by Jesus Christ who died for our sins.

 

[sparkman]

Yep. That system would be called Free Grace Theology and the proponents of that system are Chuck Swindoll, Charles Ryrie, Charles Stanley, Tony Evans and many others. It is also a huge part of the theology at DTS.

I'm not sure which ones belong to the Free Grace theology, but you are right in that they are anti-Lordship salvation. They think someone can be saved yet not lead a productive Christianity..there are a few of those churches around here. Even worse is the groups associated with Grace Evangelical Society, with Robert Wilkin.

Somehow Lordship Salvation gets distorted into works salvation, but those who distort it don't understand that the person is saved by grace through faith alone, and that works and obedience are produced from this REAL faith. "Lordship salvation" is not a dirty phrase; it simply describes what James is talking about..faith without works is dead. The works are on the back end, as fruit, but regardless they are produced by a real faith. That's not to say that someone who struggles in any issue, even over a long time, isn't saved, though.