Should we forgive adam and eve

[AandW]

God said to test Job not attack him. there is a clear distinction there.
God knew Jobs heart was strong and that was the only reason he allowed it. God was teaching satan a lesson here not job.
Dont forget everthing that satan took from job, God gave job it all back.

What makes you think because God allowed Job to be tested by satan he also allows other people to be tested by satan?
Do you know for sure ?
because the way i see it God only allowed it because he knew Job would be strong enough.
But satan as always went to far.
But what i get from the story of Job is God is telling satan one day all my children will be as strong as Job in heart and you will not succeed anymore in stealing my children one day.

Your doctrin is a reason why so many people resent God just so you know.

So again i ask what makes you think your rule applies to all people.

because the way i see it is many are weak in faith.

Don't worry, Sinners who deny God are denying God for things I have never mentioned. The Biggest reason is allowing the Hebrew peoples to slaughter several peoples and even ordered by God to completely eliminate the Amalakites. Then the Flood of Noah literally drowns billions of people from the face of the Earth. God, through my use of Discernment/Common Sense has opened their eyes and softened their views of God. How many people have you led to the Lord through your obvious distain for the Truth and your Judgmental Attitude?

 

[randyk]

Hi all
The lords prayers tells us to forgive those who tresspass against us, which means those who sin against us to.
My understanding here is any sin is a tresspass against us, and where told to forgive those who tresspass against us. However can we forgive somebody who tresspasses against somebody else and is that a tresspass against us also.


should we forgive adam and eve for there sin which did lead to a tresspass against all mankind ?

Thoughts please and scripture to back your thoughts up thanks.

I believe we hold out grace for all men and women, for all people. This doesn't mean we have to actually *forgive them* unless they actually repent. One cannot forgive a murderer who has no conscience, and continues to murder!

Jesus himself placed conditions on his forgiveness. He said, "Forgive them *for they know not what they do.* "

In other words, Jesus predicated showing actual forgiveness to lawless and wicked Israel upon their willingness to repent. He suggested that their ignorance prevented them from repenting, and that if they come to know more, they will repent.

Obviously, not all repent when they learn more. So Jesus was offering forgiveness only for those who learn more and actually repent. You can read it between the lines, and it's just plain old common sense.

Adam and Eve did, I believe, show contrition. They raised up their children in the knowledge of God, and preserved the story of their fall. They should certainly be forgiven. One reason we all share in the fallen world created by Adam and Eve is to show them God's grace. We endure suffering, not holding against anybody what they have done to cause misery on this planet.

That is, indeed, what Christ came to do. He came to share in our human misery, not holding our sins against us. And then, he provided for us legal redemption so that *if we repent* at the preaching of the Gospel, we will receive eternal forgiveness, as well as Eternal Life.

 

[soberxp]

You never know what the next unbeliever will answer what reason to you why they don't believe in God.
a>I don't have sin, so do I need sin to believe in Jesus.
b>God is so cruel.he let Israel kill baby and all others.
c>Science doesn't find God.
d>What you said is very reasonable, but I think it is far fetched.

 

[soberxp]

I think no matter what, just forgive,The wisdom of the world is about good and evil,Justice and evil,It's distorted.

We no longer need the wisdom of the world.

Whether or not your justice is just, or whether or not you are right.

just try to forgive.

 

[AandW]

I think no matter what, just forgive,The wisdom of the world is about good and evil,Justice and evil,It's distorted.

We no longer need the wisdom of the world.

Whether or not your justice is just, or whether or not you are right.

just try to forgive.

We only forgive that which has been done wrongly to us personally. To save a lost world, LOVE (not forgiveness because to say I forgive you to a stranger is implying they're wrong and passing judgment upon them) is the only answer. And not our personal love, but the love of God that should be within us.

 

[soberxp]

We only forgive that which has been done wrongly to us personally. To save a lost world, LOVE (not forgiveness because to say I forgive you to a stranger is implying they're wrong and passing judgment upon them) is the only answer. And not our personal love, but the love of God that should be within us.

forgive can be from mind and heart inside, sometimes don't need speak from mouth.

I mean, if what I think is right is wrong,then no matter what first I forgive others in mind and heart.

sometimes, I am really right, still forgive others.

I knew a women in U.S.A, Her daughter's husband killed her daughter,But she still claimed in court to forgive him, which in other people's view is extremely stupid behavior，It is God who has chosen those who are regarded as fool.

 

[AandW]

forgive can be from mind and heart inside, sometimes don't need speak from mouth.

I mean, if what I think is right is wrong,then no matter what first I forgive others in mind and heart.

sometimes, I am really right, still forgive others.

I knew a women in U.S.A, Her daughter's husband killed her daughter,But she still claimed in court to forgive him, which in other people's view is extremely stupid behavior，It is God who has chosen those who are regarded as fool.

This is also a direct sin unto that mother from her son in law. And she is following the Lord's Prayer in this example whether she believes in God or not. And that was my point in a couple of previous posts.

It would make no sense for me to say to the son in law, I forgive you, because he has never done me wrong.

 

[de-emerald]

Don't worry, Sinners who deny God are denying God for things I have never mentioned. The Biggest reason is allowing the Hebrew peoples to slaughter several peoples and even ordered by God to completely eliminate the Amalakites. Then the Flood of Noah literally drowns billions of people from the face of the Earth. God, through my use of Discernment/Common Sense has opened their eyes and softened their views of God. How many people have you led to the Lord through your obvious distain for the Truth and your Judgmental Attitude?

your being presumptous

 

[de-emerald]

Every Believer is Tempted in one way or several. A Pastor can be Tempted by the number of people in his congregation, the access to the cash flow, even women who like a man of status and power. All Believers are Tempted with the example of Paul, thorn in their side, that is a sin they can never overcome but understands the Grace of God and His work upon the Cross is more than sufficient enough. A Believer struggling with Cancer, Disease, Virus, Pornography, Alcoholism, Smoking, Adultery, Lying, Jealousy, etc are all under Temptation and Attack by the Adversary (which only God can allow).

My Doctrine is Discernment/common sense, which would be nice if you possessed enough to comprehend the intent here!

still being presumptous

 

[AandW]

your being presumptous

Nah, I can feel your Spirit, and you ain't no one to listen to!

 

[pottersclay]

Correct. He taught that if a brother or sister asks for forgiveness and repents then we're obligated to forgive them.

Luke 17:3-4
3Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

So forgiveness is conditional? Let's just look at a few other examples.

1 thief on the cross.
2 woman caught in adultery.
3 woman at the well.

 

[Runningman]

So forgiveness is conditional? Let's just look at a few other examples.

1 thief on the cross.
2 woman caught in adultery.
3 woman at the well.

Those are examples of Jesus forgiving peoples' sins. People can't forgive other peoples' sins.

 

[de-emerald]

I dont think forgiveness is conditional for people personaly. my fealings are there will be conviction from the holy spirit for christians befor you forgive someone.

I feal that the holy spirit will know your not happy about something in your heart and know you are griefing. The holy spirit will probably remove the tresspass against you automaticaly and help you to forget the tresspass against you.

And at the same time also help you to forgive the sin against you if you cant forget.
I personaly feal a problem arises when we dont act upon conviction from the holy spirit. when we try to deal with it for our selfs.
Forgiveness is also the ability to still love sinners despite there faults.
Jesus still loves the sinner but dislikes the sin.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

It depends if Adam and Eve have repented. Contrary to popular belief, Jesus never taught unconditional forgiveness. He taught that if your brother or sister asks for forgiveness, and repents, then you're obligated to forgive them.

Luke 17:4
4And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Are Adam and Eve even our brother and sister in a literal or spiritual sense? Are they in Christ?

All of that being said, there is nothing wrong with being proactive with forgiveness and giving it to those who don't even ask. But if they don't ask then I don't think forgiveness is a requirement.

I believe this is wrong.

Love even your enemies Jesus said. Your enemy obviously sins against you and yet you are to love him. How can you love your enemy if you refuse to forgive him?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

What part of the lords prayer say only forgive tresspasses if the sinner asks you for forgiveness. it just says forgive those who tresspass against you.

You are right.

We want God to forgive all our sins, ourselves. Even the sins we neglect to repent for or ever recognize.

Matthew 6:15
If you do not forgive others their sins then neither will your Father in heaven forgive your sins.

Now we do not have to forgive Adam and Eve per say. But we ought not to judge them for going against God's command. For we all also go against God's commands. Do we not?


Romans 2:1-3
God’s Righteous Judgment
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I believe this is wrong.

Love even your enemies Jesus said. Your enemy obviously sins against you and yet you are to love him. How can you love your enemy if you refuse to forgive him?

An enemy of yours typically does not repent of their transgressions against you. I would say.

 

[Evmur]

you replying to a post where i double quoted by accident.

not sure i understand what your saying here could you explain more

You were in Adam's loins, when he fell you fell with him.

 

[Runningman]

I believe this is wrong.

Love even your enemies Jesus said. Your enemy obviously sins against you and yet you are to love him. How can you love your enemy if you refuse to forgive him?

Matthew 5:38-48 says that God does good things, even for His enemies, and that's what we should do. I'm pretty sure the only people God forgives are those who are humble enough admit they're a sinner and believe in the sin offering Jesus did.

I don't think God forgives those who reject Jesus so, in my opinion, that isn't really a good precedent used to establish that we forgive everyone indiscriminately.

I think forgiveness is a good practice for Christians to have and I make a habit of it myself. Very few people will actually say sorry when they've wronged me, but that's just how it is.

However, what Jesus actually taught, based on numerous scriptures, such as the one I showed you, He included a lot ifs when deciding when to forgive. I believe He meant exactly what He said.

 

[SophieT]

Sorry thought i should requote you, i over exaggerated not hundreds. maybe just 10 or so i read through and all your post youve made since i joined this site. and they whernt terrible i was just joking with you. i do appreciate your posts and like your humor and honesty. I would love to have you as a friend also

well it's not fb where you friend people...but consider me your friend. I'm fine with that.

 

[de-emerald]

You are right.

We want God to forgive all our sins, ourselves. Even the sins we neglect to repent for or ever recognize.

Matthew 6:15
If you do not forgive others their sins then neither will your Father in heaven forgive your sins.

Now we do not have to forgive Adam and Eve per say. But we ought not to judge them for going against God's command. For we all also go against God's commands. Do we not?


Romans 2:1-3
God’s Righteous Judgment
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

I agree we should not Judge them because they broke a commandment of God.
And we should not Judge there salvation either. Because we all have falling short and like Jesus said he who is with out sin cast the first stone, and nobody did.

As for your quote we do not need to forgive adam and eve, i have to disagree. because all characters become apart of us in the bible. The story of adam and eve effects us all in some way, The biggest reason we need to forgive them is the belief that all mankind inherited a sinful nature from adam and eve including you and i.
I wanted to know peoples genuine fealings about that, as ive never come across a thread that pacifically talks about it.

So far ive herd many diffrent views, and it seems many people are devided on this subject. But at the end of the day only the holy spirit knows the heart and for those who
say they dont need to forgive adam and eve, perhaps they allready have at some point in there life.

Ive seen many families devided and hurt because they havent forgiven each other and its a shame. some people dont speak to each other for years. It is a sencitive area that we all need help with. Family members i have spoke to who have been hurt by other family members there wounds are so deep that they just can not forgive, there still nice people. I know the enemy reminds us to of upset to we havent dealt with or we are still getting over such as grief. and it may not be that you havent forgiven some one. more like the enemy reminding you of the upset and past event to cause you more affliction.

So i feal you could forgive some one and then be tricked by the enemy into unforgiving them again. The enemy can break our will in so many ways. can dig up past events from years and years ago and make you relive them as if your actually there.

Will power or self control is connected to every good fruit we have. You have to have a strong will to keep your own peace if say a noisey person is disturbing you.

Or say you have to have a strong will to have courage if your being bullied.

Or you have to have a strong will to maintain self control to beat temptation and something you have become addicted to.

The enemy did this to Job in the bible attacked Job in so many ways to try to get him to walk a way from God to break his good will. This is where the enemy wins and steals so many people from God.

God knew Job was strong enough and i dont think God allowed satan to kill his family despite what anyone says. My fealing is God was teaching satan a lesson by saying here is one man you wont steal from me go and test him if you like. The key to understanding job. is satan said to God, you have built a hedge around him. (But the truth of that is God had built Jobs heart up.

Satan at this point was allready breaking peoples will and having them curse God and go against him.
Job is the future of all mankind where we all have strong hearts able to with stand the enemy and to believe In God. I believe very strongly and my will is really strong here That Job is the only person ever to be allowed to be tested by satan.
To say satan and God work togeather is complete heresy to me.

In the Garden of eden is where satan rebelled from the beginning the bible is clear on that. its not where God allowed another person to be tested by satan.
I imagine the time gap between adam and Job was how long it took to build a living persons heart strong enough to not fall from grace because of how the enemy can break our will.

For all theese reason i also have to say forgiving another person should not be conditional on our part to fogive someone who has hurt you or sinned against you or Gone against your beliefs. because the enemy is attacking the whole world and everybody in it causing devision everywhere.

The lord is Gracious tho and recognises we can become heavy in burden and instructs us we only have to forgive those who sin against us personaly.
Here in this forums lies the battle to become strong willed because many peoples beliefs are being tested every day and many can come against you. Its enough to break a person will dealing with your beliefs being insulted every day. can be thrustrating at times to.