Sheol
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Ditto to you. Many Christians seem ignorant of the difference between hell and the Lake of Fire. Just the other day I had someone present in this thread tell me that: "Heaven and hell are not physical locations. They are spiritual states." Funny how you claim to be a Bible believer while denying what it explicitly states, while you promote ideas which are un-Biblical.
Catholics also promote a lot of heresies, such as some here do.
God chose death as the consequence/punishment for sin, while you deny that death is punishment.
So really, who is not believing the Bible???
I affirm that the wages of sin is death.
Others have adopted and vociferously defend an RCC doctrine.
God chose death as the consequence/punishment for sin, while you deny that death is punishment.
So really, who is not believing the Bible???
I affirm that the wages of sin is death.
Others have adopted and vociferously defend an RCC doctrine.
Yeah, you got it; however our incorruptible, immortal bodies will never be made out of flesh and blood bodies like we have now. At the Second Coming, our bodies will be changed! No more flesh!
There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
- 1 Corinthians 15:40-46 (NKJV)
There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
- 1 Corinthians 15:40-46 (NKJV)
The destruction of the wicked is explicitly articulated from beginning to end of Scripture, and was taught for many centuries after Jesus Christ walked this world, with eternal conscious torment creeping in via Hellenistic thought and the Catholic Church's endorsement with pope Gregory in the 6th century, after which, close to a thousand years later, the RCC declared the destruction of the wicked heretical.
What spin? Did you not say death is not punishment because the dead do not know they are dead?
And if not that explicitly, something that definitely conveyed that idea?
What spin? Did you not say death is not punishment because the dead do not know they are dead?
And if not that explicitly, something that definitely conveyed that idea?
I disagree with most of your post. I'm not usung the red x because it looks so severe.
I'm really not interested in going over the same ground we did recently in the annihilation thread.
We have different beliefs on this subject & both of us have scriptural reasons for those beliefs.
I'm really not interested in going over the same ground we did recently in the annihilation thread.
We have different beliefs on this subject & both of us have scriptural reasons for those beliefs.
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While it makes sense that Jesus would be willing to enter Hades to free the saints, neither of these scriptures prove that. Neither does Acts 2:31. All three verses merely state that God was willing, through the resurrection of Christ, and not necessarily Jesus' descension into Hades, to free those from this place of judgment.
In Ephesians 4:9, I think Paul was pondering the same question I have. And the reason he was asking the rhetorical question was that he didn't know for sure. And neither do you or I.
We can theorize that he descended to Hades, but some suggest that he descended to his grave, later conquering it after three days. That, they guess, was his descension.
It makes no difference to me whether he went to Hades to free the captives, or if it was done through the almighty hand of the Father. It will not change my view of the Gospel. However, I think we have to be careful when we attempt to reveal something God himself is not ready to reveal to us.
In this case, He has not fully revealed where Jesus was between the death and resurrection. And I would have to assume that is part of His divine will.
In Ephesians 4:9, I think Paul was pondering the same question I have. And the reason he was asking the rhetorical question was that he didn't know for sure. And neither do you or I.
We can theorize that he descended to Hades, but some suggest that he descended to his grave, later conquering it after three days. That, they guess, was his descension.
It makes no difference to me whether he went to Hades to free the captives, or if it was done through the almighty hand of the Father. It will not change my view of the Gospel. However, I think we have to be careful when we attempt to reveal something God himself is not ready to reveal to us.
In this case, He has not fully revealed where Jesus was between the death and resurrection. And I would have to assume that is part of His divine will.
The truth is that God has already revealed to us what occurred between the crucifixion and the resurrection. So what you are really saying is that you do not believe God.
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph 4:7-10)
What is God revealing to us in this passage, and what is "the lower parts of the earth"? Is it not Sheol/Hades? Christ was indeed in Sheol/Hades and when He "led captivity captive" it means that the OT saints who were in virtual captivity in Hades were released from prison when Christ ascended with them to Heaven after His resurrection. Their captivity is personified here. And it is only after the ascension of Christ that the Holy Spirit was poured out upon "all flesh". And that is when Christ gave "gifts" to men, the primary gift being the gift of the Holy Spirit (see Acts 2).
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph 4:7-10)
What is God revealing to us in this passage, and what is "the lower parts of the earth"? Is it not Sheol/Hades? Christ was indeed in Sheol/Hades and when He "led captivity captive" it means that the OT saints who were in virtual captivity in Hades were released from prison when Christ ascended with them to Heaven after His resurrection. Their captivity is personified here. And it is only after the ascension of Christ that the Holy Spirit was poured out upon "all flesh". And that is when Christ gave "gifts" to men, the primary gift being the gift of the Holy Spirit (see Acts 2).
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While it makes sense that Jesus would be willing to enter Hades to free the saints, neither of these scriptures prove that. Neither does Acts 2:31. All three verses merely state that God was willing, through the resurrection of Christ, and not necessarily Jesus' descension into Hades, to free those from this place of judgment.
In Ephesians 4:9, I think Paul was pondering the same question I have. And the reason he was asking the rhetorical question was that he didn't know for sure. And neither do you or I.
We can theorize that he descended to Hades, but some suggest that he descended to his grave, later conquering it after three days. That, they guess, was his descension.
It makes no difference to me whether he went to Hades to free the captives, or if it was done through the almighty hand of the Father. It will not change my view of the Gospel.
In this case, He has not fully revealed where Jesus was between the death and resurrection. And I would have to assume that is part of His divine will.
In Ephesians 4:9, I think Paul was pondering the same question I have. And the reason he was asking the rhetorical question was that he didn't know for sure. And neither do you or I.
We can theorize that he descended to Hades, but some suggest that he descended to his grave, later conquering it after three days. That, they guess, was his descension.
It makes no difference to me whether he went to Hades to free the captives, or if it was done through the almighty hand of the Father. It will not change my view of the Gospel.
In this case, He has not fully revealed where Jesus was between the death and resurrection. And I would have to assume that is part of His divine will.