Saved by Water

[Everlasting-Grace]

The sum of God's word is truth (Psalm 119:160) Truth cannot be realized in rejecting some passages and accepting others. God's Word states that truth is established by 2-3 scriptures. (Matt. 18:16) The need to obey God's command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is a part of the rebirth process. This truth is seen in the history of the NT church described in the Acts of the Apostles. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 8:35-40, 10:44-48, 16:14-15, 16:28-33, 18:6-10, 19:1-6, 22:16) It began in Jerusalem and continues to spread throughout the world as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47)

Your right it is truth

But twisting acts 2: 38 and other passages in an attempt to make water baptism a work required to be saved., Is not truth.

The OT equivilent is circumcision.

Your in effect saying people in the OT can be saved by faith alone, and people in the NT have to actually do a work.

Paul in collosians answer the question. the spiritual circumcision is the baptism of the hs. (chapter 2) not the physical baptism being promoted by many here

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

the question is, did they have the HS.

I just read they had knowledge of salvation.

It depends on the context of how the words, Understanding, Knowledge, and Wisdom are used, just like the Word Flesh. When the word Flesh is used, is it in reference to physical flesh, or Spiritual Flesh (Sarx).

Examples Below (just something to think about and consider if anyone is interested):

Exodus 31:3 NKJV - 3 "And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all [manner of] workmanship,
Exodus 35:31 NKJV - 31 "and He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom and understanding, in knowledge and all manner of workmanship,
Proverbs 2:6 NKJV - 6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding;
Proverbs 9:10 NKJV - 10 "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One [is] understanding.
Isaiah 11:2 NKJV - 2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
Daniel 1:17 NKJV - 17 As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.
Daniel 2:21 NKJV - 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.
Colossians 1:9 NKJV - 9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you know why these people bully others? Because they're allowed; they [can].

Hi @2ndTimothyGroup,

I just want to say that I think that you are pretty solid for the most part.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Hi @2TimothyGroup,

I just want to say that I think that you are pretty solid for the most part.

Well, thank you. I appreciate the encouragement.

I feel that I continue to improve. I still have "work" to do, but I certainly hope that more and more I am Transformed to reflect the Glory of Christ. My goal (and it seems so close to obtaining yet so impossible to achieve), is to be like the image of Abraham that I have in my mind of him. I "see" Abraham as this big, sort of lumbering man, who when you look at him, you see someone that is Graceful, Humble, Kind, and Gentle. If I live for another thirty years, perhaps I might get there.

2 Corinthians 3:14-18 NLT - "But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord--who is the Spirit--makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image."

If I am not being Transformed (by the WillPower) of the Lord, then it means the Veil has not been lifted. It means that the Curse of the Lord has not been Spiritually Circumcised from my heart. In all things, there is nothing more terrifying than not having received the Circumcision of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

Its not that I do not want to hear it. It is that it is not there

John 3, John 4 John 5, John 6., many other places. Baptism is not mentioned.

You want to take 1 (2) verses and distort and twist them, then claim your not trying to earn salvation.

Then get mad and attack and belittle people who can not see as you do. Because they have tested what you say, and found it to be lacking evidence and proof.

I would suggest doing a study on the word baptism and see if the verses that have that word teach salvation through it.

If you read and study with an open mind, I believe that you will come to a change in your point of view.

 

[Wansvic]

God performs the saving work through god himself baptizing you into Christ, His death, His burial, His body, and his church. (a spiritual baptism)

Not because a pastor or teacher or discipler or anyone baptized you in water (a physical baptism)

Both water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost are required of all groups of people as confirmed by the actual Word of God. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It depends on the context of how the words, Understanding, Knowledge, and Wisdom are used, just like the Word Flesh. When the word Flesh is used, is it in reference to physical flesh, or Spiritual Flesh (Sarx).

Examples Below (just something to think about and consider if anyone is interested):

Exodus 31:3 NKJV - 3 "And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all [manner of] workmanship,
Exodus 35:31 NKJV - 31 "and He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom and understanding, in knowledge and all manner of workmanship,
Proverbs 2:6 NKJV - 6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding;
Proverbs 9:10 NKJV - 10 "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One [is] understanding.
Isaiah 11:2 NKJV - 2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
Daniel 1:17 NKJV - 17 As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.
Daniel 2:21 NKJV - 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.
Colossians 1:9 NKJV - 9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

I think the term dog answers the question

a dog returns to his…

he was a dog, is a dog and will be a dog

 

[justbyfaith]

We need to be careful about pointing the finger at other people (calling them "dogs" and whatnot).

Normally, when we do that, we have three fingers pointing back at us (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

We need to be careful about pointing the finger at other people (calling them "dogs" and whatnot).

Normally, when we do that, we have three fingers pointing back at us (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

I hear what you're saying, but when I was told that I was not a Christian, it hurt really bad. BUT . . . that pain was also necessary for me to understand who and what, exactly, I was. I needed to know the Truth, for if people didn't tell me the Truth, then I could have continued marching through my horrific, sinfilled life, still believing that I was just fine.

One thing for sure is this: We need to be tested. We need to know the Truth about who and what we are. But I realize that in this process of discovery, the risk of being banned from an actual "church" is heightened. We've got to know!! If we don't determine the actual Truth, Hello could be the result. And having felt the Terror of the Lord, I can testify that Hell is NOT where we want to be. It is the most unbelievable form of terror and fear imaginable. I've escaped being murdered (in my mind) a few times . . . I know what human terror is. But Evil Terror is a completely, TOTALLY different sport. Those stories the Terror of the Lord in the Old Testament . . . that stuff is real.

2 Corinthians 5:11 KJV - "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences."

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Having knowledge, and having salvation are not the same

Alot of people have knowledge, yet have never received Christ in faith.

A dog is a dog. You can teach a dog a new trick, But he is still a dog. A dog returns to his vomit because that is what he is.

And it will be worse for them, they had the knowledge to be saved in their grasp. and let it slip by and did not receive it in faith.

Imagine going through eternity with this knowledge

Peter, and the message in the Proverb, then?

Having knowledge, and having salvation are not the same

Alot of people have knowledge, yet have never received Christ in faith.

A dog is a dog. You can teach a dog a new trick, But he is still a dog. A dog returns to his vomit because that is what he is.

And it will be worse for them, they had the knowledge to be saved in their grasp. and let it slip by and did not receive it in faith.

Imagine going through eternity with this knowledge

True, I can have a head full of knowledge, but if my spirit has not been brought to life by God through it, I won't be able to properly understand it and be saved by the washing of the Word (baptism by the Word, if you like).

Spiritual truths and understanding can only be gotten through the spoken word of God that brings us knowledge of Him and His ways. To be able to discern spiritual truths, "You must be born again".

When God presented me with the gift of faith, in my lounge room whilst I was hearing the Word of God (reading the Bible), there was no one there to baptise me. If there was then I would have been over the moon to have been baptised in water. And where or who could God send me to be baptised after my conversion? There was no assembly of His church anywhere to be seen where that could be done, and He has never been able to find me one during my almost 40 year Christian walk!

 

[ChristianTonyB]

the question is, did they have the HS.

I just read they had knowledge of salvation.

Yet they returned to what they were. a dog.

A dog always returns to his vomit.. because he is a dog.

It's a metaphor, recorded in the Word of God for our counsel. If you can't see what the Lord is getting to here, then it would be in your best interest to pray to Him for understanding.

Anyone that would ridicule the Word of God in any way, is being blasphemous.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It's a metaphor, recorded in the Word of God for our counsel. If you can't see what the Lord is getting to here, then it would be in your best interest to pray to Him for understanding.

Anyone that would ridicule the Word of God in any way, is being blasphemous.

I see clearly what the lord is getting at there.

Not sure how you think I ridicule the word, if that is what you are insinuating.

What I said was true. It was peter, like many, giving people a warning..

 

[ChristianTonyB]

I see clearly what the lord is getting at there.

Not sure how you think I ridicule the word, if that is what you are insinuating.

What I said was true. It was peter, like many, giving people a warning..

I felt it needed clarification, in case others got the wrong impression. I was using the word 'you' as a collective. I realised after I posted you might get the wrong impression that I was specifically targeting yourself, but when I went to edit 'you' to 'anyone' it was too late. I thought about posting a sub-comment to that ilk, but felt that I may be adding unnecessarily to the post, and the message I was trying to impart lost in the trail. My apologies if my post subjected you to ridicule, or hurt your feelings in any way.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I felt it needed clarification, in case others got the wrong impression. I was using the word 'you' as a collective. I realised after I posted you might get the wrong impression that I was specifically targeting yourself, but when I went to edit 'you' to 'anyone' it was too late. I thought about posting a sub-comment to that ilk, but felt that I may be adding unnecessarily to the post, and the message I was trying to impart lost in the trail. My apologies if my post subjected you to ridicule, or hurt your feelings in any way.

And this is the problem . . . we're trying to discuss the most important things one could talk about . . . through a bloody keyboard with time restrictions. This is one of the reasons for why I have suggested that others speak with me in person or via Zoom or Web Meeting, etc. It is extremely difficult to get anywhere when we're dealing with keyboards, mice, and monitors. It's nearly impossible.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

And this is the problem . . . we're trying to discuss the most important things one could talk about . . . through a bloody keyboard with time restrictions. This is one of the reasons for why I have suggested that others speak with me in person or via Zoom or Web Meeting, etc. It is extremely difficult to get anywhere when we're dealing with keyboards, mice, and monitors. It's nearly impossible.

Particularly if your keyboard is dyslexic like mine as well🙄

But personally, I would hate for the insights that you bring out in your communication with others, to be hidden behind a privacy vail that will exclude me from seeing them. There is wisdom in the counsel of many, and I yearn for access to that. I just need to think more carefully about my comments before issuing them, making sure as best I can that they can't be misconstrued, or unnecessarily cause offense. That's the art of effective communication.

The other thing I need to work at is not to become so indignant when someone disagrees with me, and retort in an ungracious manner.

I don't know if and when I'll ever be able to ditch the 'L' plates here on earth..... can't help feeling the Lord is shaking His head from side to side at me at times, with His eyes rolled up to the Father!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

But personally, I would hate for the insights that you bring out in your communication with others, to be hidden behind a privacy vail that will exclude me from seeing them.

Thank you; that's a very kind thing to state. I will say, though, that what I write, here, is what I would convey in a "face-to-face" conversation or video call. The difference is this: The other party wouldn't have the chance, nor time, to figure out how to evade the Biblical references that I offer. And more, they wouldn't have the opportunity to simply not answer at all, which happens quite often. Often, members will "defeat" your positions by ignoring them. It's semi-clever, as silence seems to equate to being correct. But in a face-to-face conversation, the positions that I would offer could not be defeated in this manner. Given this opportunity, it would force a person to essentially conclude that their position is utterly wrong, simply by demonstrating a lack of convincing reply. If this could happen, so much time spent typing could be avoided through simple questions/answers.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Thank you; that's a very kind thing to state. I will say, though, that what I write, here, is what I would convey in a "face-to-face" conversation or video call. The difference is this: The other party wouldn't have the chance, nor time, to figure out how to evade the Biblical references that I offer. And more, they wouldn't have the opportunity to simply not answer at all, which happens quite often. Often, members will "defeat" your positions by ignoring them. It's semi-clever, as silence seems to equate to being correct. But in a face-to-face conversation, the positions that I would offer could not be defeated in this manner. Given this opportunity, it would force a person to essentially conclude that their position is utterly wrong, simply by demonstrating a lack of convincing reply. If this could happen, so much time spent typing could be avoided through simple questions/answers.

I personally wouldn't adopt this method. I prefer a conciliatory method of communication, on the basis that what I think I know is right, may well not be... my opinion could be wrong, partly right, or fully right. I'm not concerned if my opinion is accepted or not, but rather that it gets a chance to be aired so that it can be checked for correctness, and I need the opportunity to do the same with others opinions too. One on one discussions won't necessarily prove the accuracy of an opinion.

In the end, of course, it is the Lord's opinion that really counts, and I find that is often outed through the meaningful and gracious discussion of many participants. The Holy Spirit sifts through what is said, and will tell us what is right or wrong, and I personally diligently seek His counsel on all matters, particularly those regarding matters of scripture.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I personally wouldn't adopt this method. I prefer a conciliatory method of communication, on the basis that what I think I know is right, may well not be... my opinion could be wrong, partly right, or fully right. I'm not concerned if my opinion is accepted or not, but rather that it gets a chance to be aired so that it can be checked for correctness, and I need the opportunity to do the same with others opinions too. One on one discussions won't necessarily prove the accuracy of an opinion.

In the end, of course, it is the Lord's opinion that really counts, and I find that is often outed through the meaningful and gracious discussion of many participants. The Holy Spirit sifts through what is said, and will tell us what is right or wrong, and I personally diligently seek His counsel on all matters, particularly those regarding matters of scripture.

Your reply to what I wrote is the perfect example. I wasted valuable time typing.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Your reply to what I wrote is the perfect example. I wasted valuable time typing.

Yes, I suspected that's the way you would take it. You are unwell, in more ways than one. We won't have any further discourse. I do feel sorry for you, but you have made your own bed. You are ruled by a divisive and embittered spirit.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Yes, I suspected that's the way you would take it. You are unwell, in more ways than one. We won't have any further discourse. I do feel sorry for you, but you have made your own bed. You are ruled by a divisive and embittered spirit.

I forgive you.