Saved by Water

[justbyfaith]

I've addressed you several times, and given you several opportunities to explain your heresy. You have not done so with any degree of biblical soundness, but instead have doubled down, refused at length to answer simple questions, and insisted that you are teaching (which you do so yet again) and not merely discussing.

You have not identified any of my teaching as heresy except to make a general statement about it.

Why don't you specify what you think is heresy in my doctrine?

What specifically, in what I am teaching, do you find to be heretical?

I am in fact discussing the scriptures with you but my end of what is being spoken of is doctrine / teaching as well as yours.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Interesting thoughts. I like them. You know what else just occurred to me? Who parted the Red Sea so as to grant Life? The Lord. Therefore, how would it be possible for a person to cross back through that Red Sea on their own? They couldn't . . . no one can. This supports the idea that it is impossible to fall away from the Lord, just as it is impossible to choose the Lord under personal power.

And this is also what is SO UBER important about the concept of circumcision. If physical circumcision represents Spiritual Circumcision, who reverts to having the old skin sewed back into place? That ugly, unclean flesh had been removed. How can it be put back on? And this is the same as how can we pass back through that Red Sea? Physical circumcision is a one-way process . . . when it's done . . . it's done and there's no return (especially thousands of years ago.) When the "Old Flesh" is cut away from the body, it withers and all cellular matter dies . . . literally. When that flesh is removed and completely dead, it cannot be grafted back in, or on.

Using the analogy and metaphor of us having been brought out of Egypt, through the Red Sea, and out into the desert where our trust and loyalty towards God was tested, many of us subsequently failed that test in that desert walk and lost our lives.

I don't agree that we can't trash our faith, and lose our inheritance, we can. Once we've lost/discarded our faith (and I have come across people that appear to have done that), the Father won't hand out the gift of faith to us again, that would be tentamount to putting His Son back on the cross, and He will never do that. Throwing our faith away is different to our wayward nature transgressing against God from time to time, most if not all of us do that. But if we are sincere in our grief for transgressing and confess such failings to our God, then He is gracious and faithful to forgive us our sins, and wipe them from our record.

I need to emphasise that there is a difference to the gift of faith to believe and trust in Jesus that the Father offers out to us, to the denominational faith that may have passed onto us through our upbringing, or through our own selection, they are not one and the same.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The answer to your question is the answer to my question.

The LORD...in case you are too dense to be able to figure that out.

see, there you go again!

so much pride. You must be so insecure in your belief you feel you have to act like a child in your arguments.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

key word "allow"...



It is just by faith in the conditional promise of Acts 2:38-39.

Believing that because I have fulfilled the condition, I have received the promise.



It is water baptism in Jesus' Name, for the remission of sins, in my kjv Bible.

And I am kjv-superior in my position.

So, if you want to walk down the broad path of rejecting the plain rendering of the kjv, that is on you. You have been warned, in the now, that that is the broad path that leads to destruction.

I don't expect everyone to follow me down the narrow path that leads to life. But walk down it I will; and will also invite anyone who is willing to walk down it with me.

I did not know the KJV was written by the apostles, that it is a 2000 year old bible that was inspired by God.

for the remission f sin in any language does not always mean for the purpose of.. but you do not want to hear this,

you don’t want to hear 3rd person singular

you don’t want to hear you is not a 3rd person pronoun

you do not want to hear for could mean “for the purpose of” and can also mean “because of”.

you Don’t want to hear the origional text, you only want to hear an old bible interpreted in a flawed language

you want to replace the baptism of God with the baptism in water as a means of being born again, feel free, and will not force you to believe in his work.

but don’t blame us for not listening to you, because you have not offered us any reason to listen to you

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, and we have to live that out. If we return back over the Red Sea to give our loyalties back to our past ways, it's akin to a dog returning to its vomit. As the apostle says, there's no return for us, because it would be like asking Jesus to return to the cross again.

Having been brought across/through the Red Sea, we are now travelling through the desert (aka this world), led by the Spirit of God. We need to press in together for protection, and dwell on the same pages of the one book, which is the plan of God. Jesus said a house divided against itself will fail/fall, and His words never return to Himself without them accomplishing what He stated.

A dog is a dog, he returns to his vomit because he is a dog

a christian is no longer a dog, he was created new a new creature, he does not return to what he is no longer

 

[ChristianTonyB]

A dog is a dog, he returns to his vomit because he is a dog

a christian is no longer a dog, he was created new a new creature, he does not return to what he is no longer

Insomuch as Peter's reference below is to 'those that had previously escaped defilement through their knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ', he was obviously referring to those that were previously counted as Christian:

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”"

 

[Wansvic]

So you did not walk to the river or baptismal?
You did not go to whoever will baptize you and ask to be baptized?
You did not walk into the later. and allow someone to immerse you in water?
...

Through obedience to Acts 2:38 God accomplishes salvation in us. It is God who actually performs the saving work. We are compelled to repent after He calls and leads us. God remits our sin in water baptism, and also takes up residence in those who believe and obey Him. (Heb. 5:9) The spiritual rebirth would not even be available without Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. It is the very grace of God that made this possible.

It is faith that what God says is true that results in one receiving the promised rebirth experience. As Jesus stated except a man be born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)

 

[justbyfaith]

see, there you go again!

so much pride. You must be so insecure in your belief you feel you have to act like a child in your arguments.

Normally, when we see some sin in the life of someone else, it is because that sin is very prevalent in our own lives (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

 

[justbyfaith]

I did not know the KJV was written by the apostles, that it is a 2000 year old bible that was inspired by God.

for the remission f sin in any language does not always mean for the purpose of.. but you do not want to hear this,

you don’t want to hear 3rd person singular

you don’t want to hear you is not a 3rd person pronoun

you do not want to hear for could mean “for the purpose of” and can also mean “because of”.

you Don’t want to hear the origional text, you only want to hear an old bible interpreted in a flawed language

you want to replace the baptism of God with the baptism in water as a means of being born again, feel free, and will not force you to believe in his work.

but don’t blame us for not listening to you, because you have not offered us any reason to listen to you

I don't mind hearing any of those things...I simply do not believe in them.

I think that you do not want to hear that repentance and baptism in Jesus' Name is the condition to a conditional promise in holy scripture (of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost)...

I think that you are the one who has indeed developed itching ears concerning these things.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

see, there you go again!

so much pride. You must be so insecure in your belief you feel you have to act like a child in your arguments.

Do you know why these people bully others? Because they're allowed; they [can].

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Insomuch as Peter's reference below is to 'those that had previously escaped defilement through their knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ', he was obviously referring to those that were previously counted as Christian:

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”"

Having knowledge, and having salvation are not the same

Alot of people have knowledge, yet have never received Christ in faith.

A dog is a dog. You can teach a dog a new trick, But he is still a dog. A dog returns to his vomit because that is what he is.

And it will be worse for them, they had the knowledge to be saved in their grasp. and let it slip by and did not receive it in faith.

Imagine going through eternity with this knowledge

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Through obedience to Acts 2:38 God accomplishes salvation in us. It is God who actually performs the saving work. We are compelled to repent after He calls and leads us. God remits our sin in water baptism, and also takes up residence in those who believe and obey Him. (Heb. 5:9) The spiritual rebirth would not even be available without Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. It is the very grace of God that made this possible.

It is faith that what God says is true that results in one receiving the promised rebirth experience. As Jesus stated except a man be born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)

God performs the saving work through god himself baptizing you into Christ, His death, His burial, His body, and his church. (a spiritual baptism)

Not because a pastor or teacher or discipler or anyone baptized you in water (a physical baptism)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Normally, when we see some sin in the life of someone else, it is because that sin is very prevalent in our own lives (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

Normally, when we refuse to see sin in our own lives. and other people call us out. We attack them, because we are blinded to our own sins

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I don't mind hearing any of those things...I simply do not believe in them.

I think that you do not want to hear that repentance and baptism in Jesus' Name is the condition to a conditional promise in holy scripture (of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost)...

I think that you are the one who has indeed developed itching ears concerning these things.

Its not that I do not want to hear it. It is that it is not there

John 3, John 4 John 5, John 6., many other places. Baptism is not mentioned.

You want to take 1 (2) verses and distort and twist them, then claim your not trying to earn salvation.

Then get mad and attack and belittle people who can not see as you do. Because they have tested what you say, and found it to be lacking evidence and proof.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you know why these people bully others? Because they're allowed; they [can].

yeah.. There was a time that was not allowed.

Its sad

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Having knowledge, and having salvation are not the same

I could certainly be wrong, but my studies have led me to conclude that to have True Knowledge is symbolic of possessing the Holy Spirit. Anyone who is being permanently led by the Holy Spirit has received a Holy Inheritance in waiting to come.

Understanding - Christ
Knowledge - Holy Spirit
Wisdom - God, the Father

Sorry . . . just thought I'd interject this important notion.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

yeah.. There was a time that was not allowed.

It's sad

I agree with you, though. I LOVE opposing ideas of others! I really do, but it's when the belittling begins, that's when I back off and honestly, want nothing to do with that person (or bot). In my fifties, now, it has been proven to me that anyone who is able and willing to berate and belittle, there is no hope of reaching that person on that particular day, nor anytime in the near future. To date, those who have belittled and berated me . . . less than the fingers, on one hand, have they returned to apologize. Instead, they revel in their evil doings. Pretty incredible.

 

[Wansvic]

Its not that I do not want to hear it. It is that it is not there

John 3, John 4 John 5, John 6., many other places. Baptism is not mentioned.

You want to take 1 (2) verses and distort and twist them, then claim your not trying to earn salvation.

Then get mad and attack and belittle people who can not see as you do. Because they have tested what you say, and found it to be lacking evidence and proof.

The sum of God's word is truth (Psalm 119:160) Truth cannot be realized in rejecting some passages and accepting others. God's Word states that truth is established by 2-3 scriptures. (Matt. 18:16) The need to obey God's command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is a part of the rebirth process. This truth is seen in the history of the NT church described in the Acts of the Apostles. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 8:35-40, 10:44-48, 16:14-15, 16:28-33, 18:6-10, 19:1-6, 22:16) It began in Jerusalem and continues to spread throughout the world as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47)

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: saved by water?
Precious friend(s), Taking ALL The Related Scriptures (Rule 5 BsR),
and not rejecting, twisting, Misinterpreting, OR EXTRACTING Them
From "God's Context," Where HE Placed Them, But, Simply Rightly
Dividing (Rule 2 BsR) Them:

Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL, under the gospel of the kingdom:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Especially Luke 7:29-30;
Acts_10:37; Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Prophecy/Law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, with
The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 ◄◄◄)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE

Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "No water baptism, for
us Today," Under HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's
{Many Severely DIVIDED denominations?} Confusion into oblivion!?

Thus, "op's" Bible Answers = "Yes" for ISRAEL, but:

"NO!" For The Body Of CHRIST!
---------------------------------------------------
FULL "study" of ALL Bible baptisms is here:

12 baptisms vs ONE Baptism

LORD JESUS, thank You for This Precious Word Of Truth That Has Solved
my Confusion. May This Also be used for the Encouragement of Many others.
Amen.

GRACE And Peace (no rituals needed...)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I could certainly be wrong, but my studies have led me to conclude that to have True Knowledge is symbolic of possessing the Holy Spirit. Anyone who is being permanently led by the Holy Spirit has received a Holy Inheritance in waiting to come.

Understanding - Christ
Knowledge - Holy Spirit
Wisdom - God, the Father

Sorry . . . just thought I'd interject this important notion.

the question is, did they have the HS.

I just read they had knowledge of salvation.

Yet they returned to what they were. a dog.

A dog always returns to his vomit.. because he is a dog.