Well, God's wrath is poured out on sinners after they die in the lake of fire, right? If Jesus was our substitute would that mean He took the wrath of God for us, because God pours out His wrath on sinners in the lake of fire (and God's wrath might be on sinners before that - to a lesser extent I guess)?
Salvation
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That would be correct. God's wrath is against sin and unrighteousness. When Christ was made *SIN* for us, that wrath was poured out upon Him for three dark hours, while He suffered in His body, soul and spirit. Only the Father knows what He put His Son through. See Isaiah 53 for some intimation of this.
I guess I'm being told two different things here, Nehemiah6, yes Jesus took the wrath of God for us, and no Jesus did not take the wrath of God for us. I think understanding this might be a critical issue to my salvation (maybe so that I understand the logical coherency of salvation, if that makes sense and is the correct way to put it), but maybe it is not (a critical issue to my salvation)?
I guess I'm not completely convinced Jesus took the wrath of God for us or that Jesus did not take the wrath of God for us. You and John Piper say that Jesus took the wrath of God for us and maybe more people have told me He did (maybe just one other person) but others have said He did not (if it is not just blue_ladybug).
It is perfectly true. God's wrath against sin and the penalty for sin were all placed on Christ. It is not that the Father could not look up Him. The Father forsook the Son while He paid that penalty on the cross. Read Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.
When the Bible says that God cannot look upon sin, it also means that sin cannot go unpunished. So either the sinner had to pay the penalty or the Savior had to pay the penalty (which He did).
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:5,6)
When the Bible says that God cannot look upon sin, it also means that sin cannot go unpunished. So either the sinner had to pay the penalty or the Savior had to pay the penalty (which He did).
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:5,6)
Jesus took our sin upon Him, that's all you need to know..It is expressed in other words in Scripture, and you will note that in the bolded portions from Isaiah 53:
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Millions of people believe because they go to a certain Church or their Church attendance they are saved. Millions of people believe they are saved because of Water Baptism. Millions of people believe when they take the Communion (the Lord's Supper) in Church on Sunday they are saved. Millions of people believe in the unscriptural doctrine once saved always saved.
JSM
This is the most important question in human existence and one whose answer is clearly outlined in scripture. In order to be saved we must first realize our true state of sinfulness before God and know that He alone can save us, cleanse us, and give us eternal life. Scripture tells us that Jesus is the only way and we can not have access to God through any other means. In fact, in John 14:6, Jesus plainly stated...
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
God Loves You!
God loves you so much that he made a way for you, through the shed blood of his son so that you might be able to spend eternity with Him.
“For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have Everlasting Life” ( Jn. 3:16 ).
Man is a Sinner, and Sin has Separated him from God!
You may think you are a good person but being good is not enough! Every man has sinned and there is none that is righteous before God!
“For there is not a just man upon Earth, that doeth good and sinneth not” ( Eccl. 7:20 ).
“For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God” (Rom. 3:23).
Jesus Christ is the Only Remedy for Sin!
Jesus Christ is the only remedy for sin. We can not be good enough to get into heaven, nor can our good works get us there.
There was no other way for God to erase the effect of sin except by blood. The shedding of Christ's blood indicated that the penalty for sin had been paid; a perfect sinless life had been sacrificed for the lives of all who have sinned.
“. . .Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins” ( Hebrews 9:22 )
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God...” ( I Pet. 3:18 ).
“Neither is there Salvation in any other: for there is none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved” ( Acts 4:12 ).
You Must Receive Jesus Christ as Your Lord and Savior
To be saved, a man must confess that Jesus is Lord, while acknowledging in his heart that Christ must have full rule over his life. This confession of Christ as Lord assumes that it is Christ who will work and fulfill His own righteousness within man, as man is unable to attain righteousness of his own accord.
Jesus calls this experience the “new birth.” He told Nicodemus: “. . . Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God” ( Jn. 3:3 ).
We invite you now to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His Name” ( Jn. 1:12 ).
Pray this Prayer and Mean it with all Your Heart
Dear Lord Jesus, I realize that I am a sinner and have broken your laws. I understand that my sin has separated me from you. I am sorry and I ask you to forgive me. I accept the fact that your son Jesus Christ died for me, was resurrected, and is alive today and hears my prayers. I now open my heart’s door and invite Jesus in to become my Lord and my Saviour. I give Him control and ask that He would rule and reign in my heart so that His perfect will would be accomplished in my life. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
Congratulations!
If you prayed this prayer in all sincerity, you are now a Child of God. However there are a few things that you need to do to follow up on your commitment.
This is the most important question in human existence and one whose answer is clearly outlined in scripture. In order to be saved we must first realize our true state of sinfulness before God and know that He alone can save us, cleanse us, and give us eternal life. Scripture tells us that Jesus is the only way and we can not have access to God through any other means. In fact, in John 14:6, Jesus plainly stated...
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
God Loves You!
God loves you so much that he made a way for you, through the shed blood of his son so that you might be able to spend eternity with Him.
“For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have Everlasting Life” ( Jn. 3:16 ).
Man is a Sinner, and Sin has Separated him from God!
You may think you are a good person but being good is not enough! Every man has sinned and there is none that is righteous before God!
“For there is not a just man upon Earth, that doeth good and sinneth not” ( Eccl. 7:20 ).
“For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God” (Rom. 3:23).
Jesus Christ is the Only Remedy for Sin!
Jesus Christ is the only remedy for sin. We can not be good enough to get into heaven, nor can our good works get us there.
There was no other way for God to erase the effect of sin except by blood. The shedding of Christ's blood indicated that the penalty for sin had been paid; a perfect sinless life had been sacrificed for the lives of all who have sinned.
“. . .Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins” ( Hebrews 9:22 )
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God...” ( I Pet. 3:18 ).
“Neither is there Salvation in any other: for there is none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved” ( Acts 4:12 ).
You Must Receive Jesus Christ as Your Lord and Savior
To be saved, a man must confess that Jesus is Lord, while acknowledging in his heart that Christ must have full rule over his life. This confession of Christ as Lord assumes that it is Christ who will work and fulfill His own righteousness within man, as man is unable to attain righteousness of his own accord.
Jesus calls this experience the “new birth.” He told Nicodemus: “. . . Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God” ( Jn. 3:3 ).
We invite you now to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His Name” ( Jn. 1:12 ).
Pray this Prayer and Mean it with all Your Heart
Dear Lord Jesus, I realize that I am a sinner and have broken your laws. I understand that my sin has separated me from you. I am sorry and I ask you to forgive me. I accept the fact that your son Jesus Christ died for me, was resurrected, and is alive today and hears my prayers. I now open my heart’s door and invite Jesus in to become my Lord and my Saviour. I give Him control and ask that He would rule and reign in my heart so that His perfect will would be accomplished in my life. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
Congratulations!
If you prayed this prayer in all sincerity, you are now a Child of God. However there are a few things that you need to do to follow up on your commitment.
- Get baptized ( full immersion) in water as commanded by Christ
- Tell someone else about your new faith in Christ.
- Spend time with God each day through prayer and Bible reading
- Seek fellowship with other followers of Jesus
A suggestion;.....understand that Christ substituted Himself for us on the cross for our sins, by which He gave us ...grace......thru which we are able to receive forgiveness for our sins. It is not complex.
Make it a practice not to rely on persons to guide you...including me...but, yield to the Bible for complete guidance.