Salvation is for the Whole World

[ForestGreenCook]

Thanks for the explanation, and I'm definitely not looking to disagree with you and actually agree with some of what you've said above, but nevertheless would like to reconcile and understand the "God so loved the world" of John 3:16, which relates to 3:17's " the world through him might be saved". I feel this is critical to know because so much hangs on its intent. Regardless of whether one or the other of us is correct, or if in some way we both are, I think it could be an extremely beneficial dialogue to have.

So, if I understand your point of view correctly, I believe the crux of our different perceptions, comes down to what is to happen to this world, as that will be the determinant of which world it was that "God so loved", as represented by John 3:16. Personally, I find it hard to conceive how Jesus's offering would have been expended upon a world that is to be temporal, destroyed, and therefore not eternal, because if it was then his offering must be judged as a failure, which of course, it was not. Instead, anything covered under His offering was by that made eternal.

If I may ask, how would you interpret the following verses regarding the longevity of this current world? It seems to me that
if it is to be destroyed - which is what these verses seem to indicate - then the world that "God so loved" cannot be this one and must be towards another eternal world - the world that is to come - which would then dramatically change the assumptions that most make regarding the intent of 3:16 and 3:17.

[Isa 65:17 KJV] 17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

[2Pe 3:10,11 KJV]
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,

[Isa 34:4 KJV] 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling [fig] from the fig tree.

We seem to be in agreement with each other. Keep giving your answer to everyone who asks you of the hope that is within you.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Not to make a single SINNER believe they have no Hope.

The natural man, (1 Cor 2:14), before he has been quickened by God's sovereign grace, (Eph 2:1), has no hope in being saved eternally


Eph 2:12 - That at that time, ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That’s exactly why I crush Calvinism the way I do, and do so with the Word of God.

And do so by wrongly interpreting the scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize, before you can understand the truth of Christ's doctrine.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I personally have never read a single portion of God's Holy Word and walked away thinking now I must make that sound how I see it.

That is SELF INDULGENCE that creates the desire to discuss God's Word from back end of human reasoning.

And this is how non-believers respond when they cannot explain the truths that have been presented to them.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

And this is how non-believers respond when they cannot explain the truths that have been presented to them.

Delusional Ramblings...

 

[ForestGreenCook]

An abstract? I don't understand what you mean by that?

Our hope should never be in ourselves but in God alone. Should someone think that they can save themselves by any of their own actions (to include by their belief), then they would be attempting to take the power of salvation away from God bequeathing it to themselves. Instead, a faith given by God, is such that He alone is its object from beginning to end and is in no way by/of us. A faith not given by God, will instead be a trust in ourselves and in our own works which can never bring salvation.

[1Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

What is your understanding of the word redeemed? Do you think Jesus redeemed any who were not of His people?
If you do, then read Luk 1:68 more closely because it clearly tells us otherwise - that it was intended only for His people alone. This means they were first His people, and being His people, He redeemed them.
Only the redeemed have been/will be saved, and only His people are redeemed. Luk 1:68 places all the work of redemption solely and squarely upon Christ alone and nothing upon those who are of the redeemed.


Redeemed:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

[Luk 1:68 KJV] 68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[Heb 9:12 KJV] 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].

I commend the ability that you have in explaining your defense of the gospel with boldness, in humility, and love.

My defense seems to come out more blunt and harshly. I pray that God would give me more of what he has given you.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I commend the ability that you have in explaining your defense of the gospel with boldness, in humility, and love.

My defense seems to come out more blunt and harshly. I pray that God would give me more of what he has given you.

 

[rogerg]

I commend the ability that you have in explaining your defense of the gospel with boldness, in humility, and love.

My defense seems to come out more blunt and harshly. I pray that God would give me more of what he has given you.

Thank you ForestGreenCook- I appreciate that, but sometimes I can be very blunt indeed - probably too much so.
Anyway, you greatly underestimate your abilities.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

And just Who are you to diminish the Glory God rightfully deserves?

Believing that God desires to eternally save all the inhabitants of the whole world, but he can't, because some of them will not let him, is diminishing the glory that God rightly deserves.

Dan 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE CAN STAY HIS HAND, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is a straw man...

This is how to avoid answering a question that you don't know how to answer.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Delusional Ramblings...

More of the same!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

More of the same!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Was reminding myself this morning to never feel unworthy of God's love and mercy and stray away from his presence, Jesus did not die on the cross for the righteous people, he did it for us and all our imperfections, there is NOTHING under the sun we can do that his GRACE will not cover! Always find your way back to his embrace, he's always waiting for us with open arms.

Actually, we are all, by our fleshly nature, unworthy of God's love and mercy, but I commend you for your heartfelt comments.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

See where you and I differ perhaps, is that "saving faith" is not the gift, salvation is the gift by grace, conditional upon believing in Christ Jesus and His work on one's behalf.

You can't have it both ways. Grace is not conditional. It is an unmerited favor, given to an undeserving person.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You just don't get it!

All we are supposed to do is Glorify God.

How is God Glorified to the ENTIRE WORLD if people like you diminish what the Bible states for your interpretation?

The Bible claims God is LOVE!

Your definition shows only a Partial LOVE.

How come you are making God look bad?

The Bible tells us on SEVERAL ACCOUNTS God Died for the Whole World.

That shows the TRUE LOVE of God.

But when I ignore what the Bible claims for your own reasoning skills, I and the world no longer see God as LOVE.

You truly are removing Glory from God by how I view God after reading your thoughts.

Do you believe that God is happy about you making Him look like He is purposefully sending people to HELL?

Most of God's elect are blinded to the truths contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ, temporary, until they repent from believing that their eternal salvation is dependent upon their good works, such as yourself.

Your failure to recognise that salvation=deliverance, and that the born again child of God experiences many deliverances, according to scripture, as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, is the cause of your false belief.

It is the remnant's responsibility to teach the lost sheep of the household of Israel, such as yourself, to repent, and come unto a knowledge of the truth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

EVERYONE, from Adam to the End, whether we Accept His Invitation or Deny it, He DIED for us all giving us a FREE GIFT OF SALVATION. You and Myself are fortunate we said, Yes, to His Invitation.

Jesus's sacrifice for the sins of those that His Father gave to him, was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not an offering to mankind, for mankind's acceptance. Eternal deliverance is not an offer to mankind.

Your failure to accept that, as born again children of God, we experience many deliverances (salvations), as we sojourn here on earth.

Salvation=deliverance, according to Greek translation. Eternal deliverance is a one time event that was accomplished on the cross. All other deliverances that are accomplished by, the good works of God's born again children are received as they sojourn here on earth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The only "knowledge" Roger has is the indoctrination and brainwashing he has received in his cult. That is just like the JWs. You could present them with a hundred Scriptures to refute their false teachings, but it would make absolutely no difference. They would continue to cling to their nonsensical beliefs. Calvinism is not only nonsensical but it is a PERVERSION of the Gospel. And that is extremely serious.

Your belief in eternal salvation by your good works is a PERVERSION of the gospel. Let's give God all of the praise, and none to mankind.

 

[Magenta]

You are making progress in learning the truth, that there is a world of the elect, as referenced in John 3:16, and there is another world of the non-elect.

Forest, good morning, I wanted to ask you if there is a particular verse you would like to see on one of my Scripture panels?

I would use the KJV - Though I make no promises -

 

[ForestGreenCook]

ALL and every SIN HAS BEEN RESOLVED AND FORGIVEN, ALL ANYONE TO BE GIFTED IT HAS TO DO IS JUST SAY, YES GOD!

it's FREE to Everyone!

The spiritually born again person is the only one that will say yes, to God that is a spirit. Not the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Forest, good morning, I wanted to ask you if there is a particular verse you would like to see on one of my Scripture panels?

I would use the KJV -Though I make no promises -

Eph 1:3-4, would be a good place to start.