Sabbath

[SophieT]

No I am aware of the history of the SDA Church. Their leaders had Meetings with Walter Martin and they changed to correct doctrines that are necessary for Salvation. At a latter date they had a movement of reform in their church turning away from legalism to grace.

that is patently not true. the confusion with keeping the law with an emphasis on the 4th commandment is ongoing as recent (within the last 3 days or so) posts in this thread from SDA members indicate

the lie that we believe there are no more commandments continues in order to create emphasis on the law, when the emphasis should be on being a new creation in Christ. if and when grace is mentioned, it is in response to someone objecting to the emphasis on law keeping.

Christians who actually understand the law as it was given and the fact that it was a SHADOW of the perfect salvation through Christ, are accused of being sinners etc. Sabbath keepers are one confused lot of people and do not understand who it is they are actually supposed to follow

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that is patently not true. the confusion with keeping the law with an emphasis on the 4th commandment is ongoing as recent (within the last 3 days or so) posts in this thread from SDA members indicate

the lie that we believe there are no more commandments continues in order to create emphasis on the law, when the emphasis should be on being a new creation in Christ. if and when grace is mentioned, it is in response to someone objecting to the emphasis on law keeping.

Christians who actually understand the law as it was given and the fact that it was a SHADOW of the perfect salvation through Christ, are accused of being sinners etc. Sabbath keepers are one confused lot of people and do not understand who it is they are actually supposed to follow

And as I said before. If we really get down to it, WHile they claim to keep the sabbath, In reality, they do not keep it. as it was given.

 

[SophieT]

Thank you for posting this and I quite agree.
Throughout the gospels jesus was shown to participate in the sabbaths and feast according to custom.
What many don't realize is just as the church has wolves in sheep's clothing so do the jews.
The Pharisees and Sadducees in jesus day took the law and added to it to control the masses.
Making it impossible for anyone to follow.
The law could never save nor was it intended for that purpose, but it showed our need for a savior to rescue us from it.
Anti-Semitic views and teachings in the early churches who also reguarded replacement theology as sound doctrine has done much harm in understanding the scriptures, making a almost instant rejection in any Jewish practice.
Many christians today avoid old testament studies especially about the law and appointed times under the banner it does not apply to christians under the new covenant. Yet the new covenant was given to the jews first as it is in line with God's order.....to the jews first then the gentiles.
God has stated that he is a never changing holy one it would be wise to study theses things and see if it isn't or is so.

The law does not apply to believers in Christ. Acquaint yourself with the teachings of Paul to better understand that. In fact, the Apostle Peter was soundly rebuked by Paul because he was sliding from freedom in Christ back into legalistic practices. He accepted what Paul had to say and changed his behavior

We, as followers of our Lord Jesus Christ, are not bound by the law. We have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, not animals, and are free of condemnation because of it. I do not practice replacement theology and I have a sound comprehension of both old and new testaments. the confusion occurs when people believe that in some manner, the law is still binding on them. It is not

A person may say that many Christians today avoid the OT, as you do in your post, but I would point out that many must avoid the NT to insist they are still bound to ANY part of the law. Paul refers to Hagar the slave woman and to Sarah the free woman, to explain the difference

We are free in Christ. The lie many Sabbath keepers like to promulgate, is that saying we are free in Christ means we think we can sin. This is totally false and has been addressed over and over in this forum alone.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Galatians 5:13-14 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

1 Peter 2:16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom to cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law does not apply to believers in Christ. Acquaint yourself with the teachings of Paul to better understand that. In fact, the Apostle Peter was soundly rebuked by Paul because he was sliding from freedom in Christ back into legalistic practices. He accepted what Paul had to say and changed his behavior

We, as followers of our Lord Jesus Christ, are not bound by the law. We have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, not animals, and are free of condemnation because of it. I do not practice replacement theology and I have a sound comprehension of both old and new testaments. the confusion occurs when people believe that in some manner, the law is still binding on them. It is not

A person may say that many Christians today avoid the OT, as you do in your post, but I would point out that many must avoid the NT to insist they are still bound to ANY part of the law. Paul refers to Hagar the slave woman and to Sarah the free woman, to explain the difference

We are free in Christ. The lie many Sabbath keepers like to promulgate, is that saying we are free in Christ means we think we can sin. This is totally false and has been addressed over and over in this forum alone.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Galatians 5:13-14 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

1 Peter 2:16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom to cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

to add

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

9 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Its sad people want to go back to the tutor.

 

[Gideon300]

What does it mean for us today, to keep the Sabbath holy? It is still a commandment.....

Lord Jesus made it clear that the Sabbath was for man, not man for the Sabbath. In the western world, most people are not farmers. Physical rest is not a necessity for most. However, a day not doing what you would normally do for work is extremely beneficial. Some employers seem to think that they own you. Some workers feel obliged to be always available. I was like that for many years. It does not help that Australia sleeps while the northern hemisphere is working.

A sensible balance of work and recreation improves your health and productivity. God knows our limitations. God always has good reasons for His principles. When I was first saved, I was in the military. I knew nothing of sabbaths. I had no choice but to work on any, and if necessary, every day. It rarely came to that but when it did, I did what I had to do, one time for 3 weeks straight without a break and with little sleep. I survived.
Sidetrack alert........
I have to say that I wish people would get over the Sabbath issue. Colossians 2:16 settled the issue as far as I am concerned. I would like to see a discussion on the 9th commandment, which gets violated constantly on this forum. Not too many seem to care what they say about other believers. I have news for you. Both old and new testaments warn against slander. We will give an account for every careless word that we speak. When we speak the truth, it needs to be in love, not because we love to stick it to others.

 

[Gideon300]

Fulfilling the righteousness demanded by the 4th commandment is seeking first the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness so that we may know GOD.

I'm so glad that Lord Jesus is my righteousness. I am free from the curse of the Law because I now live by the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

 

[Gideon300]

Thank you for posting this and I quite agree.
Throughout the gospels jesus was shown to participate in the sabbaths and feast according to custom.
What many don't realize is just as the church has wolves in sheep's clothing so do the jews.
The Pharisees and Sadducees in jesus day took the law and added to it to control the masses.
Making it impossible for anyone to follow.
The law could never save nor was it intended for that purpose, but it showed our need for a savior to rescue us from it.
Anti-Semitic views and teachings in the early churches who also reguarded replacement theology as sound doctrine has done much harm in understanding the scriptures, making a almost instant rejection in any Jewish practice.
Many christians today avoid old testament studies especially about the law and appointed times under the banner it does not apply to christians under the new covenant. Yet the new covenant was given to the jews first as it is in line with God's order.....to the jews first then the gentiles.
God has stated that he is a never changing holy one it would be wise to study theses things and see if it isn't or is so.

Lord Jesus was born in Israel under the Old Covenant. That is how He lived. The new Covenant has rendered the old obsolete. If you study God's purpose, you will find that the Law was God's second best, so to speak. Israel as a nation refused to come to God to be blessed. They preferred to stay aloof. So instead of a personal relationship with the living God, they chose slavery to words on stone. All the law did was prove that there is no desire in the heart of man to keep it. Paul's letter to the Galatians lays out exactly the believer's relationship to the law. You can't have it both ways. Either you live by law or by grace. The law will kill you. Grace is Life (Romans 5:10)

 

[Gideon300]

Being indwelt by God's holy spirit we're always in relationship with the most high.
The argument that really doesn't comport with scripture is that which condemns observation of the Sabbath, while the one making that argument knows themselves to be one who goes to church on Sunday. That's observing what is the spirit of the Sabbath on a day the Lord did not identify as the day of rest.

There is that argument that repeatedly argues, we are not under the law. And yet, if that is believed they would then be arguing they don't abide nor respect the ten moral commands, or laws of God, that Jesus did not abolish at all. The law and the prophets , he said, hang on two commandments. Love the Lord your God with all your heart. And love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The ten commandments encompass that very thing. Are we to disavow those? Thou shalt not steal. Murder. Take the Lord's name in vain. Etc...

Up to the Book of Revelation we read that the Sabbath, this well after Jesus returned to the father, was observed and by the Apostle John on the isle of Patmos.
How is it argued to be something wrong, that we observe God's Sabbath on the day he designed for us to? We Gentiles, or Christians, are grafted into the olive tree an are nourished by its root. Ezekiel 37 & Romans 11.

And how does someone condemn resting on the Bible's Sabbath day, per those scriptures, and worship God in church on a Sunday? Thinking that much better and more in keeping with God's will?
They can't.

Lord Jesus is the Vine, not the Law. If you want to live by the law, first pick which of the 600 plus apply to you. Then do your best. When you have failed enough, come back to the Lord Jesus. The Law will lead you to Him, if you allow it.

 

[SophieT]

to add

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

9 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Its sad people want to go back to the tutor.

it cannot get plainer than that

such an important and revolutionary passage of scripture. there really is not excuse for denying what is so plainly said and distorting what the law was actually for. the law had a purpose and for those without Christ, that purpose still serves

but we, the body of Christ, are no longer enslaved by that law

 

[SophieT]

I have to say that I wish people would get over the Sabbath issue. Colossians 2:16 settled the issue as far as I am concerned. I would like to see a discussion on the 9th commandment, which gets violated constantly on this forum. Not too many seem to care what they say about other believers. I have news for you. Both old and new testaments warn against slander. We will give an account for every careless word that we speak. When we speak the truth, it needs to be in love, not because we love to stick it to others.

exactly

just one thing though...this is an old thread, 2018, and was resurrected by a SDA member...I don't think you will a reply from all the people you actually responded to...this was already one long thread before it was kicked into start again. you might know that...some people are still here though

 

[SophieT]

Yes, it was established at creation. I imagine that people were keeping the Sabbath long before there even was a Jew. What makes you think that God didn't share with Adam His intent on Sabbath worship? The law given at Sinai/Horeb didn't establish the Sabbath, it said remember the Sabbath. God made the seventh day holy and man cannot make it unholy.

View attachment 185904

while it sounds nice, it is only speculation to say the above

God said everything He created was good. rest in Christ. He is Lord of the Sabbath

 

[TheLearner]

The original Christians (followers of Christ) were more like messianic jews today. They believed in, followed, and taught the law and commandments just like the Messiah did... and continued this long after his death. This includes the Sabbath. If you read the entire commandment... Exodus 20 verses 8-11 it tells us we are not to work on this day. A little history research will show how these original followers of Christ were brutally forced into giving up the sabbath day as well many other of The Most High God's instructions on how to live (law). Many of God's laws may have been given to the Israelites, but also had to be kept by the stranger if they wanted to live amongst the chosen. The original Christians being forced to give up the sabbath, holy days, and other laws and adopt the pagan practices at the time, played a huge role in creating what we now know as modern day Christianity.

The Messiah coming to "fulfill" the law (Mat 5:17) is often interpreted as a change to the law and furthermore concluded that this change takes place with his death. The word "fulfill" there should literally be translated "to make full or complete". How did he come to make the law complete? By teaching us how the law was SUPPOSED to be kept. The law was never the problem. The problem was mankind not able to keep the law correctly. E.G. The Pharisees adding and taking away from the laws with their own traditions. So the Messiah came to make the law complete by being our role model for the law. This is how he is literally the "word made flesh". The "Word" is "what the Father says"... The Messiah is a physical representation of what the Father says... A.K.A. word made flesh. If we follow the Messiah correctly, we will by default be keeping his Father's laws (instructions). With this understanding we don't have to try to excuse away the next two verses (Mat 5:18-19) that clearly state that the law is to be here until heaven and earth pass and the severity of teaching otherwise.

Many people seem to be confusing the law with the penalties for sin (breaking the law). The Messiah did not change the speed limit or take down any of the signs.... he only paid one big speeding ticket for us. His death did not alter or remove any laws, what it did was pay the penalty for us breaking the laws and gave us a renewed covenant (contract).... a second chance. This second chance is our "grace".

I know this original post was about the sabbath, but this all falls in the same box to me. When I say "the law", I'm speaking of all instructions from the Creator.... From "Be fruitful and multiply"... to the Sabbath... the holy days... the mosaic law, etc. Of course all of the law does not apply to all people. Some law was specific for priests, some for men, some women, some only for a specific place and/or time.... However if the instruction was to keep it throughout the generations forever, than the Messiahs death was not meant to change that.

Yah Bless

How does this law apply to christians today?

If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her.

Thanks,
Daniel

 

[TheLearner]

From the many posts I have seen from him, The user ID he chose does not fit.

Mainline SDA are in Christ.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

A little history for your all, that thread is met only to be informational.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...itionalism-comes-from-mankind-not-god.200704/

 

[TheLearner]

better to study the actual gospel, to understand that SDA is one of the 4 major cults

The Four Major Cults book is outdated. Today, there is Mainline SDA who are saved by Grace through Faith, believe in the Trinity and so on.
They keep the Sabbath out of Love for Christ.

There are independent SDA groups that still deny the Trinity and depend on keeping the law for salvation.

I posted the mainline SDA statement of faith. Follow the links to learn more about what they teach about Jesus.

https://www.asitreads.com/blog/2017/9/21/were-seventh-day-adventist-pioneers-arians-or-semi-arians

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/trinity/TrinityWhidden.htm

 

[SophieT]

The Four Major Cults book is outdated. Today, there is Mainline SDA who are saved by Grace through Faith, believe in the Trinity and so on.
They keep the Sabbath out of Love for Christ.

There are independent SDA groups that still deny the Trinity and depend on keeping the law for salvation.

I posted the mainline SDA statement of faith. Follow the links to learn more about what they teach about Jesus.

https://www.asitreads.com/blog/2017/9/21/were-seventh-day-adventist-pioneers-arians-or-semi-arians

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/trinity/TrinityWhidden.htm

did I mention a book? No I did not.

you are not informing me here. if you have something to say, just say it. don't direct people to information that I bet the kitchen sink you have not read yourself

 

[SophieT]

Every single group has a 'what we believe' under their 'about' in the menu

every single one paints a shining picture of heaven on earth

it is for us to study scripture so we are not led astray by these deceptions or think we have to shine the brass buttons on the SDA costume for them

 

[TheLearner]

that is patently not true. the confusion with keeping the law with an emphasis on the 4th commandment is ongoing as recent (within the last 3 days or so) posts in this thread from SDA members indicate

the lie that we believe there are no more commandments continues in order to create emphasis on the law, when the emphasis should be on being a new creation in Christ. if and when grace is mentioned, it is in response to someone objecting to the emphasis on law keeping.

Christians who actually understand the law as it was given and the fact that it was a SHADOW of the perfect salvation through Christ, are accused of being sinners etc. Sabbath keepers are one confused lot of people and do not understand who it is they are actually supposed to follow

You ignorance is invincible. Follow the links I posted.

 

[Blik]

better to study the actual gospel, to understand that SDA is one of the 4 major cults

I am not a member of the SDA and don't know much about them, except they take the old testament as scripture from God enough to go against the norm even to worship God according to how God tells us He created the world in Genesis. Do they believe in Christ as their savior? If they do then they are your brother and sisters in the Lord and according to Christ who explained the spirit of the law you are committing murder. It is fine and good to disagree, and say how you do, but you carry it to the point of "you fool" God warns against.

Paul explains they can choose their day of worship, just as you have. No scripture told you to worship on Sunday, it is your interpretation to do so. There is scripture telling us to worship on the seventh day. Of the two, you are most out of line.

 

[TheLearner]

Romans 14

Easy-to-Read Version



Don’t Criticize Others
14 Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas. 2 Some people believe they can eat any kind of food,[a] but those who have doubts eat only vegetables. 3 Those who know they can eat any kind of food must not feel that they are better than those who eat only vegetables. And those who eat only vegetables must not decide that those who eat all foods are wrong. God has accepted them. 4 You cannot judge the servants of someone else. Their own master decides if they are doing right or wrong. And the Lord’s servants will be right, because the Lord is able to make them right.
5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.
7 We don’t live or die just for ourselves. 8 If we live, we are living for the Lord. And if we die, we are dying for the Lord. So living or dying, we belong to the Lord. 9 That is why Christ died and rose from death to live again—so that he could be Lord over those who have died and those who are living.
10 So why do you judge your brother or sister in Christ? Or why do you think that you are better than they are? We will all stand before God, and he will judge us all. 11 Yes, the Scriptures say,
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘Everyone will bow before me;
everyone will say that I am God.’”
12 So each of us will have to explain to God about the things we do.
Don’t Cause Others to Sin
13 So we should stop judging each other. Let’s decide not to do anything that will cause a problem for a brother or sister or hurt their faith. 14 I know that there is no food that is wrong to eat. The Lord Jesus is the one who convinced me of that. But if someone believes that something is wrong, then it is wrong for that person.
15 If you hurt the faith of your brother or sister because of something you eat, you are not really following the way of love. Don’t destroy anyone’s faith by eating something they think is wrong. Christ died for them. 16 Don’t allow what is good for you to become something they say is evil. 17 In God’s kingdom, what we eat and drink is not important. Here is what is important: a right way of life, peace, and joy—all from the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever serves Christ by living this way is pleasing God, and they will be accepted by others.
19 So let’s try as hard as we can to do what will bring peace. Let’s do whatever will help each other grow stronger in faith. 20 Don’t let the eating of food destroy the work of God. All food is right to eat, but it is wrong for anyone to eat something that hurts the faith of another person. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else that hurts the faith of your brother or sister.
22 You should keep your beliefs about these things a secret between yourself and God. It is a blessing to be able to do what you think is right without feeling guilty. 23 But anyone who eats something without being sure it is right is doing wrong. That is because they did not believe it was right. And if you do anything that you believe is not right, it is sin.

 

[TheLearner]

nap time