Sabath

[carl11]

So should the Sabbath still be honoured by Christians?

It has to be, because the Sabbath has everything to do with that of salvation.

 

[posthuman]

On the outskirts one could say Paul was deluded but no, because every word that we have in the Bible is from God Almighty, in other words he crafted the Bible like this to make people think that the Bible cant be trusted and apparent contradictions.

And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? ​

He answered and said unto them, ​

Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
(Matthew 13:10-13)​

 

[posthuman]

Just HOW are you going to manage to thumb your nose at all rules and at the same time have faith in what God says?

he's Buddhist; he's here to learn about Christianity, but he doesn't necessarily have faith in what God says. he'd like to know how we understand what the Bible says about who God is, what God says and what He does. if you didn't know.

 

[posthuman]

((i think we should be hospitable to our guest, i mean, we are servant of the Lord of Hosts after all))

 

[posthuman]

*A shadow of Christ to come.
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Colossians 2:16‭-‬17 NASB
*
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Romans 14:5‭-‬9 NASB
*
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.
1 Corinthians 6:12‭ NASB
*
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Romans 10:4 NASB

If you believe scripture.

i believe scripture

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.​

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.​

(Matthew 28:29)​

​

He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,​

“today if you hear His voice,​

do not harden your hearts.”​

For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.​

(Hebrews 4:7-10)​

​

Indeed, He will speak to this people​

Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,​

He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”​

And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.​

So the word of the LORD to them will be,​

“Order on order, order on order,​

Line on line, line on line,​

A little here, a little there,”​

That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.​

(Isaiah 28:11-13)​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

 

[Magenta]

Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

 

[posthuman]

when a man comes to Jesus and calls Him 'teacher' and asks 'what works must he do to inherit life' this man has two strikes against himself immediately: He doesn't recognize Jesus as God enfleshed, but as a teacher, and he considers that life may be earned through good deeds and right actions.

As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up to Him and fell on his knees before Him. ​

“Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”​

​

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."​

​

"You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ ”​

​

“Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”​

​

Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack" He said.​

(Mark 10:17-21)​

this man says he has kept the commandments, but he knows that he cannot inherit life from doing so.
Jesus affirms that, by saying "one thing you lack" -- obeying the law cannot confer life. something else is needed

Is the law therefore contrary to God’s promises? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, then righteousness would certainly be by the law. ​

(Galatians 3:21) ​

what is this about a contradiction?
i don't see any

 

[Grandpa]

Starting to get it, but it does lean heavily on Paul.
How do we know Paul wasn't deluded?

Only Christians know Paul wasn't deluded.

Because Christians have come to Christ and have received Rest.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That's what Christ offers.

This is one of the ways Paul explains it;

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[Blik]

That's an unconvincing article. Of course Saul new all about Christianity and what they believed as he had been arguing against them for years, and trying to drum up opposition to then and what they believed.
Anybody can pretend to be blind, or have a hysterical blindness.
I'm still not able to make my mind up about Paul? 😒

If you understand Paul as a brilliant trained rabbi, a believer in God as God was also Christ, it is simple to understand Paul. Paul followed the training he was given by Gamaliel in his exclusive school for rabbis. Paul even uses the same outline for teaching that Gamaliel's school taught.

Paul had several goals. He was the apostle to the gentiles, he worked to convince Jews about Christ, and he sorted out the traditions of the Jews that were not scripture.

When we change the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, I wonder if God sees the specific day, but only one day a week. However, God said Saturday, and it is not a tradition rather than something God ordained, it is from God.

 

[Blik]

Only Christians know Paul wasn't deluded.

Because Christians have come to Christ and have received Rest.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That's what Christ offers.

This is one of the ways Paul explains it;

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

How can you define the scriptures about rest to exclude what God tells us about our body needing rest from our labors one day a week. To rest in the lord is an entirely completely different subject, if you mix them up you are distorting the word of God.

The rituals God gave is another example. You don't throw out what the rituals were to lead to because you are told to use another way to be led.

 

[Dino246]

How can you define the scriptures about rest to exclude what God tells us about our body needing rest from our labors one day a week. To rest in the lord is an entirely completely different subject, if you mix them up you are distorting the word of God.

The rituals God gave is another example. You don't throw out what the rituals were to lead to because you are told to use another way to be led.

Here you go again, adding to what people write and completely changing the meaning. Grandpa wrote nothing at all about "the body needing rest", yet you accuse him of throwing it out. You are picking fights unnecessarily.

 

[Magenta]

When we change the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, I wonder if God sees the specific day, but only one day a week. However, God said Saturday, and it is not a tradition rather than something God ordained, it is from God.

Try as I might, I cannot find the word "Saturday" in my Bible, while you speak of distorting the Word of God.

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm not a Christian and so I can perhaps be excused from misunderstanding Paul 😕
But that doesn't excuse you lot, if Paul is also doing follow the law then you should. Even if you slip sometimes... don't slip on purpose and say... Oh but faith, faith! That's just lazy.

The OP is about the Sabbath. My point is that Mosaic law still applies in full to the Sabbath for Christians. It's a commandment from God the Father and the Son.
Not being able to do it perfectly doesn't mean it no longer applies.
It no longer being strictly necessary for salvation doesn't mean you can use the new covenant to contrive ways of disobeying God.

The body of Christ are those of the New Covenant. Jesus left us with a will of inheritance. It's not about following rules but is being filled with Gods Holy Spirit.

 

[Blik]

Try as I might, I cannot find the word "Saturday" in my Bible, while you speak of distorting the Word of God.

The days of the week have been named by people who worship idols, so Monday is named for the moon, Sunday is named by worshippers of the Sun, and Saturday for Saturn. You won't find any of these names in scripture. In scripture there is the first day of the week, the day we call Sunday. Saturday is the last day of the week.

 

[Meditator]

As I'm listening to the discussion I get the sense that a living experience of knowing Jesus, having a real relationship with him, is what confirms the scriptures and makes sense of them.

 

[mailmandan]

As I'm listening to the discussion I get the sense that a living experience of knowing Jesus, having a real relationship with him, is what confirms the scriptures and makes sense of them.

Christianity is all about a living experience of knowing Jesus/having a real relationship with Him. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[obedienttogod]

As I'm listening to the discussion I get the sense that a living experience of knowing Jesus, having a real relationship with him, is what confirms the scriptures and makes sense of them.

Most of us have been to that point where there is nowhere to go/turn to for help. We know how to struggle in many areas until we release and allow God to control the situation. And when we can see for ourselves in a given situation, we can see things happening that would be impossible for anything we could humanly do. After awhile, once you finally get the gist of it, you just begin to let God control more and more matters in your life.

It's like having a very good friend that is willing to do the stupid things you like doing, is always there when your thoughts trouble you, whether free or locked up, God is with you 24/7/365. I just start my day off and go. As things begin to brew, I just say to God, you are here with me, help me understand and hear my clients needs, help me to find favor in my clients opinion, and help me be a better person always. The amount of positive things that happen vs things negative when you give it to God is amazing. Mathematically speaking, like 20 to 1 good things happen in place of bad.

This is our lives now, which include God being a vital say in all matters possible (possible as in : I don't just react in my own nature first, but will seek God's viewpoint before making any decision).

 

[Blik]

Every new attribute you learn of the lord is like opening up a new world, a real, wonderful, exciting world you lived in before but weren't really aware of.

 

[Chester]

As I'm listening to the discussion I get the sense that a living experience of knowing Jesus, having a real relationship with him, is what confirms the scriptures and makes sense of them.

Yes, yes, yes, you are so right and so close; oh so close!!

There is one stumbling block and that is the cross! Here is the core of the issue you need to dare to face:

(1) You have sinned - and one sin makes you nauseous in the eyes of God - the wages of sin is death - you will burn forever in hell unless you repent of your sin! (You have clearly said on this forum that you are not a Christian)

(2) God in His infinite love and mercy became your sacrifice and gave His life!

(3) If by faith you believe in Jesus Christ and accept His death and resurrection as payment for your sin you will be given the gift of eternal life!

(4) Then as you said above you will have a living experience of knowing Jesus! You evidently have no idea what this is really like!!


I am praying for you. I love you.

Chester

 

[stonesoffire]

And consider this too...why follow rules or laws when you have the lawgiver Himself within? He leads us to greater ways then of outward obedience.