Rom. 8:9 and starting our walk with Christ .

[Nehemiah6]

I'm only asking to agree or disagree with a state of being , before we receive the Spirit of Christ .

Before anyone receives the Holy Spirit they are simply UNREGENERATE people. This is the natural state before conversion.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Hi Baptist Bible believer , I'm just highlighting the state of being " I understand " we are all in at the very beginning of our walk with Christ , as per Rom. 8:9 .

Do you agree with the understanding I presented in the OP ?

Thanks .

You OP states that we have Christ at our new birth, but we do not have the Holy Spirit you. I do not agree with that. I stated why in my reply above.

 

[Hevosmies]

Pisteuo could you just tell me what you mean please?

Your name is faith in the greek. Can you just tell us what you are teaching?

Im guessing this is promoting a separate filling of the Spirit after salvation, OR something of that sort. But I could be wrong. Please Pisteuo let us know what you believe, so we arent guessing.

 

[Pisteuo]

I suppose it's fun to take one single verse out of a Chapter of Scripture and play around with it, however, without the ENTIRE Chapter for context and understanding, one can easily play games with a single verse as to it's meaning

In this instance, from vs. 1 to vs. 17 should be enough to come to an understanding of vs, 9

1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded islife and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

...........thanks for playing..........

Is that an agreement or disagreement ?

I never play games with anything associated with God .

 

[Pisteuo]

The Bible says many are called, but few are chosen, and not many wise men after the flesh, not many noble, not many mighty, are called.

No person says that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

Peter claimed Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, and Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but the Father in heaven.

If a person's heart condition is right enough while in the world God will call them and work with them to get them to the truth.

So they would not have the Spirit at the start of their salvation journey until they get to the truth acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior, and hating sin, and not wanting sin, allowing the Spirit to lead them.

Which many are called, but few are chosen for many do not come to the truth hating sin, and not wanting sin, and understand God hates sin and does not want us to sin, but some have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, and it points out their sins, and they are lover of pleasures, things of the world, more than the lovers of God.

The Spirit will not lead anyone that does not hate sin, and does not want sin.

We will be led of the Spirit when we come to the truth to hate sin, and do not want sin, and all were sinners when called and God started working in their life, so they would not have the Spirit at the beginning of their salvation journey to be saved, although the Spirit is working with them to get them to the truth.

The Lord knows them that are His having this seal, which this is what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Is your reply an agreement or disagreement to the understanding I've presented in the OP ?

 

[Pisteuo]

You OP states that we have Christ at our new birth, but we do not have the Holy Spirit you. I do not agree with that. I stated why in my reply above.

Please reread the OP , I stated , we all start our walk with Christ without the Holy Spirit . And as per ROM. 8:9 if we don't have the Holy Spirit , we don't have Christ . If we don't have Christ " I say " we do not have His Word or the promises in His word either . We are all in this state of being at the very beginning of the Salvation journey .

What I'm asking is do you agree or disagree with this understanding ? If not , why .

 

[posthuman]

Romans 8:9 states , that if we do not have the Spirit of Christ in us , we are none of His .

With that said , would you agree that we all start the Salvation journey in the same state of being . Meaning , at the very start of the Salvation journey , we are being drawn to Christ by the Father , but do not have the Spirit of Christ yet , making Christ , His Word , and His promises in His Word , not ours to claim yet .

My question , is this understanding acceptable ?

i would say this depends on clearly defining what we mean by 'the start'
do we begin our walk when we are born?
when we reach an age able to comprehend what we hear?
when we first hear about a being called God?
when we are first introduced to the Bible?
when we first hear the gospel?
when we first believe it?
at baptism?

i'm inclined to agree with those who say we received the Spirit the moment we believe - which isn't necessarily being 'filled' with Him. if we call that moment the start then we all may have different degrees of knowledge and understanding and experience, tho we're all equal in Christ, babes, but at that moment having been given a measure of the Spirit and of faith. those may not be the same measure i each of us.

if the start should be before we believe, then for sure, spiritually we are all in the same state, dead, enemies of God, evil, darkened in understanding. we may have varying degrees of knowledge and wisdom tho, even then.

positioning spiritual things in time is complex tho, because His gifts are eternal, transcending time. i can look back to times before i knew of Christ now, and see that He was with me, but i didn't know it then, it was impossible for me to see at that time. if that makes any sense?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I stated , we all start our walk with Christ without the Holy Spirit .

This sentence is what is confusing me (as to your point). None of us START our "walk WITH CHRIST" WITHOUT the Holy Spirit. Nor "without Christ".

 

[Pisteuo]

Pisteuo could you just tell me what you mean please?

Your name is faith in the greek. Can you just tell us what you are teaching?

Im guessing this is promoting a separate filling of the Spirit after salvation, OR something of that sort. But I could be wrong. Please Pisteuo let us know what you believe, so we arent guessing.

Pistis is the Greek word for our English word Faith .

Do you have an agreement or disagreement concerning the OP ?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Im guessing this is promoting a separate filling of the Spirit after salvation, OR something of that sort.

My guess was, something like, "does regeneration precede faith?"

 

[Pisteuo]

i would say this depends on clearly defining what we mean by 'the start'
do we begin our walk when we are born?
when we reach an age able to comprehend what we hear?
when we first hear about a being called God?
when we are first introduced to the Bible?
when we first hear the gospel?
when we first believe it?
at baptism?

i'm inclined to agree with those who say we received the Spirit the moment we believe - which isn't necessarily being 'filled' with Him. if we call that moment the start then we all may have different degrees of knowledge and understanding and experience, tho we're all equal in Christ, babes, but at that moment having been given a measure of the Spirit and of faith. those may not be the same measure i each of us.

if the start should be before we believe, then for sure, spiritually we are all in the same state, dead, enemies of God, evil, darkened in understanding. we may have varying degrees of knowledge and wisdom tho, even then.

positioning spiritual things in time is complex tho, because His gifts are eternal, transcending time. i can look back to times before i knew of Christ now, and see that He was with me, but i didn't know it then, it was impossible for me to see at that time. if that makes any sense?

Yes , before any responding in Faith .

As I stated in the OP , at this beginning state of being , we would only be drawn to Christ by the Father , and like you correctly stated , would be feeling the affects of that . But I don't want any disagreement with the " drawing or calling of the Father " to derail the focus of this thread , which is how Rom .8:9 is applied to this part of the Salvation journey .

With that said , would it be safe to say you agree with my understanding ?

 

[Pisteuo]

My guess was, something like, "does regeneration precede faith?"

I clarified your concerns twice , did I miss your reply ?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Keep in mind, Jesus had said,

John 12:32 -

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I clarified your concerns twice , did I miss your reply ?

Post #28

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

My guess was, something like, "does regeneration precede faith?"

No, I think you get saved and then you believe . . . or something like that.

It's like, you get clean and then you get in the bathtub. yea?

 

[Pisteuo]

This sentence is what is confusing me (as to your point). None of us START our "walk WITH CHRIST" WITHOUT the Holy Spirit. Nor "without Christ".

Ah ok , my bad . But I thought I made it clear multiple times because we don't have the Holy Spirit yet " Rom. 8:9 Christ , His Word , and the promises there in are not ours either .

Now that we're clear , do you agree or disagree with my understanding ?

 

[Pisteuo]

No, I think you get saved and then you believe . . . or something like that.

It's like, you get clean and then you get in the bathtub. yea?

The state of being in the OP is before any responding in Faith , or believing .

 

[Pisteuo]

I agree....untill adoption is made we remain outside any inheritance, or promise.

So far pottersclay is the only agreement . And no solid disagreements yet .

 

[Pisteuo]

Pottersclay used a perfect word , we are still " outside " of Christ .

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ah ok , my bad . But I thought I made it clear multiple times because we don't have the Holy Spirit yet " Rom. 8:9 Christ , His Word , and the promises there in are not ours either .

Now that we're clear , do you agree or disagree with my understanding ?

Does this help?

John 7:39 -

"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

So when we "believe on Him" we "receive" the Spirit, and the entire gift package that goes with this.



It seems to me, though, that you might be asking/saying something like, that the following verses are not intended for unbelievers (unless/until AFTER they are saved):

John 3:16-17 [bsb] -

"16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through [by means of] Him."