Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Goliath]

aren't you contradicting yourself then, to say there are both saved Christians and unsaved Christians?
see your quote below:



there you say everyone with a lamp is a Christian.
so are the lamps works? what works?
by the definition of Christian you gave me, all these are servants of God who do works. ((what works?))
and if the lamps are works, what is the oil?
some are unsaved even though they are His servants doing His works ((what works?)). why? what do they lack?

Well I guess you have me there...I call everyone who identifies as a Christian, Christian,..just to be kind.
I honestly don't know how to address you. What would you like to be called? Christian right?
Anything else would make you angry...and if you are angry, would you listen to anything I had to say?
As it is...everything I say is foolish to you.
Am I right..or Wrong?

 

[Jackson123]

But didn't he show his faith through his Works?
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
(James 2:18)
Many Christians show their faith, without works. If Moses had believed as they do...Moses would have drowned with the rest.

Yes, and if he only say he believe but not build an ark, his faith is fake and when the flood come he drown not save

 

[posthuman]

For anyone who wants to know....the meaning of "The Ten Virgins".
All ten virgins were given the gift of the Holy Spirit/Lamps.
The Oil in the Lamp is the instruction one receives through the Holy Spirit, an instruction that keeps you in the Light and leads to salvation. This is the oil the Wise Virgins use.

interestingly "Torah" translates as "instruction"

so are you saying, having begun in the Spirit, one must be perfected through the law in their flesh?

 

[posthuman]

Well I guess you have me there...I call everyone who identifies as a Christian, Christian,..just to be kind.
I honestly don't know how to address you. What would you like to be called? Christian right?
Anything else would make you angry...and if you are angry, would you listen to anything I had to say?
As it is...everything I say is foolish to you.
Am I right..or Wrong?

clearly not all Israel is Israel, eh



i'm not angry. you can just call me post is fine

 

[Goliath]

Yes, and if he only say he believe but not build an ark, his faith is fake and when the flood come he drown not save

You are correct...

 

[Goliath]

interestingly "Torah" translates as "instruction"

so are you saying, having begun in the Spirit, one must be perfected through the law in their flesh?

Really..I didn't know that.
No...I'm not saying that at all.
The Law of Christ is designed for one thing..and one thing only. That one thing is to change our hearts.
I would like to elaborate brother, but I gotta go now. But if you have anymore questions, I will try to answer them the best I can. May God bless you!

 

[TMS]

There seems to be some confusion about
JUSTIFICATION and
SANCTIFICATION
They are different, one is imputed righteousness and one is imparted righteousness.
They both come by faith in Jesus. One is instantaneous and the other is the Work of a lifetime.

Don't try to seperate faith and works.
Sure we are saved by faith 100% but works will always be seen in those with real faith.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No...I'm saying Paul was not the Author of Salvation.

so in fact your saying he was wrong.

Fact is paul was no different than Peter, James or the rest of them.

He took the truth to the gentiles

If you want to know the truth. You have to find the truth where Paul. Jesus, James, Peter and john all agree.. If you cause ANY of them to contradict any of the others. You have misinterpreted one of them..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

To jump in here...
What The Lord means by this statement, is this, He never Knew you...as his servant.
Why?
Though he gives you his commands, through the Holy Spirit...You do not do them.
How can you be a servant of Righteousness, (Good Works), if you don't keep his commands?

Now your adding to the word of God

He said I never knew you period.

You are worrying me sir. You are too self focused..

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

I think you misunderstood this verse

If you think 1 Cor 3:14,15 is about losing salvation, then YOU misunderstand the verse.

The builder is Christian
Build a house, the house is ministry

Example
A missionary go to preach the gospel than some people convert

A missionary in that context is the builder
A church is house
Than persecution come to that church and all believer denied Jesus mean will deny by Jesus in front of Hus father mean not save
It mean the house burn
But missionary still save because he not deny jesus

On john 15:6 branch is the Christian not the ministry
No fruit go to fire
In this context fire mean hell

Nope. Here, "fire" is God's evaluation of the believer's works. You are forgetting what the believer's "building materials" are gold, silver and jewels (divine good), and wood, hay and stubble (human good). Isa 64:6 says man's human good (our righteousnesses) are like used menstrual rags (filthy rags) to God. Get the picture?

God evaluates EVERYTHING the believer does. Works done in the power of the Holy Spirit will be rewarded (v.14) and works in the power of the human nature will be BURNED UP, but the believer will be saved.

If you don't understand this, may God help you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Really? You mean there are verses that contradict each other? I had no idea!!

Actually, when someone comes to verses that "say the opposite" of other verses, shows that they fail to properly understand either one or both of the verses.

My use of "opposite" was not from my perspective, but from the OSAS crowd's perspective.

The OSAS perspective IS the biblical perspective. That was my point.

We conditional salvationists know that "we are saved by grace through faith, not of works" and "not the hearers of the law but the doers of the law are justified" are two verses that mean EXACTLY the same thing

That is exactly where your error is. Faith and "doing the law" are exactly opposites.

while you OSAS folks cannot reconcile "not the hearers/he that doeth righteousness is righteous" with your beliefs, therefore you ignore them, regarding them as opposite sayings.

I explained that phrase. I guess you just didn't understand it.

I'm still waiting for you all to ask how it is that these verses can be reconciled.

I don't have to ask. I know that every verse is in harmony with every other verse. It's your side that has huge problems with conflicting verses.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The question was what were the commands for? Salvation or blessings and reward? Do you have an answer?

Yes FreeGrace2, I do have an answer.

The shadow law found in the Torah grants the knowledge of sin to the user.

The shadow law will not grant righteousness to the user.

The shadow law will condemn one and all, for no one is righteous.

Once the law is fulfilled by Jesus, then we are no longer under the letter of the law. We then fall under the law of Christ.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

These two commandments are the only commandments in the scripture that grant eternal life.

The ten commandments condemn everyone and continue to condemn.

So then, it seems you are saying that the commands are for blessings and reward, and not for salvation.

 

[TMS]

All of Gods laws are good.
They become a curse when perverted.

The shadow laws were introduced to help people see the solution to sin. The coming Saviour.

The moral laws are for us to know what sin is.
Sin = death. Know what sin is and how identify sin is a blessing. If the whole world obeyed the moral laws we would have no sin. Heaven.

The shadow laws are gone because Christ has replaced them.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[TMS]

That is exactly where your error is. Faith and "doing the law" are exactly opposites.

Sanctification comes by faith.
If i believe (have faith) that Jesus is inside me transforming me into His image do you think my works would be the same as an unbeliever?

If i truly believe something in my heart it will be reflected in my words and actions.

No boasting because it is God that is doing the transforming.

Faith and works go hand in hand with each other.

Faith = works

The devil believes but doesn't have faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sanctification comes by faith.
If i believe (have faith) that Jesus is inside me transforming me into His image do you think my works would be the same as an unbeliever?

What you have just expressed isn't even close to what is called "saving faith". Anyone can believe that Jesus is inside them and transforming them into His image. So what? Where is that found in the Bible as "saving faith"?

If i truly believe something in my heart it will be reflected in my words and actions.

OK.

No boasting because it is God that is doing the transforming.

God will transform ONLY those who have saving faith in His Son. No one else.

Faith and works go hand in hand with each other.

Well, works are commanded AFTER one has expressed saving faith.

Faith = works

Nope.

The devil believes but doesn't have faith.

OK, now tell me from James 2:19 what it is exactly that the devil believes. And if that is saving faith.

 

[Jackson123]

If you think 1 Cor 3:14,15 is about losing salvation, then YOU misunderstand the verse.

No that verse not lising salvation builder save but through flame
But john 15 :6 the branch burn , fire not save through flame
Corinthian say save throug ....
John say thrown into fire

2 different use of word and 2 different meaning

 

[Jackson123]

I agree with martin, faith that save never alone because real faith produce good work
Mathius 25 where Jesus say welcome to a sheep because when you see the poor you help them is product of real faith that come from real faith

We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.” ― Martin Luther: Motivational Notebook, Journal, Diary (110 Pages, Lined 6 x 9) Paperback – November 14, 2019. Find all the books, read about the author, and more.

 

[Goliath]

Now your adding to the word of God

He said I never knew you period.

You are worrying me sir. You are too self focused..

Now your adding to the word of God

He said I never knew you period.

You are worrying me sir. You are too self focused..

ok

 

[Goliath]

so in fact your saying he was wrong.

Fact is paul was no different than Peter, James or the rest of them.

He took the truth to the gentiles

If you want to know the truth. You have to find the truth where Paul. Jesus, James, Peter and john all agree.. If you cause ANY of them to contradict any of the others. You have misinterpreted one of them..

Read what you will into it

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Read what you will into it

it has nothing to do with what I want. It has everything to do with what actually happened.

You have paul going out telling a different gospel.. Then judging others for being accursed if they teach a different gospel. Which makes Paul not only a false teacher, But makes the largest part of the NT unreliable..