Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Jackson123]

Yes they have real faith demonstrating it by helping Jesus' brethren the Jews during the tribulation. We saw similar acts by 'righteous Gentiles' hiding and aiding the Jews from the Nazi war machine.

It seem happen not only during tribulation but Jesus say
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

To me Jesus brother is believer it do not say during the tribulation.
Is Jesus brother hungry an sick and need cloth, not all but some Christian is poor, we may never meet Jesus in need, we may never meet Jesus physically how we feed Jesus?
By helping the poor brother and sister not only during tribulation

 

[Jackson123]

What good is hear only with do

Say we hear a preaching to believe in Jesus but not doing believe what good it is

Correction
With change to without

 

[Jackson123]

Yes they have real faith demonstrating it by helping Jesus' brethren the Jews during the tribulation. We saw similar acts by 'righteous Gentiles' hiding and aiding the Jews from the Nazi war machine.

If only happen during great tribulation, what happen if we die before great tribulation?
We go to hell because we don't have a chance to feed Jesus?

 

[crossnote]

It seem happen not only during tribulation but Jesus say
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

To me Jesus brother is believer it do not say during the tribulation.
Is Jesus brother hungry an sick and need cloth, not all but some Christian is poor, we may never meet Jesus in need, we may never meet Jesus physically how we feed Jesus?
By helping the poor brother and sister not only during tribulation

It says quite clearly when it happens...

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
(Mat 25:31-32)

I happen to believe that is right after the Great Tribulation, at least Chap 25 comes after Chap 24,

 

[crossnote]

If only happen during great tribulation, what happen if we die before great tribulation?
We go to hell because we don't have a chance to feed Jesus?

I already gave you the Scripture that says Christians have passed from judgment into life...

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
(Joh 5:24)

 

[Inquisitor]

I've already shown you that the OT differentiates between the law of God He wrote with His own finger in stone, and the law Moses wrote with his hand in a book, and I offered several examples. It's a matter of history. We simply cannot claim that the phrase "the law" in the OT always refers to the law of Moses.

Remember when God Himself said "Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My statutes, My commandments, and MY LAWS"? Moses hadn't come along for many many centuries after that.

Yes, Abraham was mentioned in the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. The Hebrew word 'Torah' translates into the English word, 'law'. There is no other translation of the Hebrew word 'Torah', other than the law.

When Paul uses the word, 'law', Paul is referring to the first five books of the O.T.

That usage by Paul of the word, 'law', of course includes the entire law of Moses.

 

[Jackson123]

It says quite clearly when it happens...

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
(Mat 25:31-32)

I happen to believe that is right after the Great Tribulation, at least Chap 25 comes after Chap 24,

homicide trial held on next July 20

It do not mean the homicide happen next July 20
The homicide happen before but the trial will on July 20

The last trial will held after tribulation but the event of helping the poor or not happen before the trial

 

[Inquisitor]

The question was what were the commands for? Salvation or blessings and reward? Do you have an answer?

Yes FreeGrace2, I do have an answer.

The shadow law found in the Torah grants the knowledge of sin to the user.

The shadow law will not grant righteousness to the user.

The shadow law will condemn one and all, for no one is righteous.

Once the law is fulfilled by Jesus, then we are no longer under the letter of the law. We then fall under the law of Christ.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

These two commandments are the only commandments in the scripture that grant eternal life.

The ten commandments condemn everyone and continue to condemn.

 

[crossnote]

homicide trial held on next July 20

It do not mean the homicide happen next July 20
The homicide happen before but the trial will on July 20

The last trial will held after tribulation but the event of helping the poor or not happen before the trial

whatever

 

[Goliath]

These "what if's...." aren't the issue.

The "what IS" is the issue. Let's stay focused on what the Bible does say. Not would it could have said.

Yes sir!

 

[Goliath]

so your saying paul. the apostle who was sent to spread the gospel to the gentiles. was not given the true gospel?

Say it is not so..

No...I'm saying Paul was not the Author of Salvation.

 

[Goliath]

If haven't build the ark?
Mean he haven't faith
God saved base on faith
No faith no save

But didn't he show his faith through his Works?
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
(James 2:18)
Many Christians show their faith, without works. If Moses had believed as they do...Moses would have drowned with the rest.

 

[Goliath]

why would you think these are believing Christians if Christ never knew them?

Because though the call Jesus Lord...they do not do the righteousness Jesus commands them to do.
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
(Luke 6:46)

And this is because Works has become a swear word in the Christian community.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When Paul uses the word, 'law', Paul is referring to the first five books of the O.T.

Actually when Paul uses the word "law" is can have one of several meanings, depending on the context. So the word "law" can apply to (1) the entire Tanakh (OT), (2) the Torah or Pentateuch, (3) the Ten Commandments, or (4) just the ordinances in the last four books of the Torah.

 

[Goliath]

the lamps are not the Holy Spirit, the oil is -- and the foolish had no oil.
they never had any oil.
they thought they could buy it.

such is the way with all who think to 'purchase' salvation with their own works and willpower: they have no oil, and the Lord doesn't know them. salvation is not 'for sale'

Your free to interpret it anyway you like. Just trying to give you a key.

 

[Goliath]

@Goliath was quoting Matthew 25 - in which the word 'never' isn't found.
so it wasn't a misquote.

but Matthew 7 must be put together with it: how many times does God say "I do not know you?"
all those times must be placed together to understand what He means when He says it, just like any other thing in scripture.
that is one of the basics of how to study the Bible. common things have correlation and commonality.
how can omniscience be ignorant of anyone? Matthew 7 informs Matthew 25. it is the same Word.

so when Christ, The Bridegroom comes and says "depart from Me; I do not know you" -- that is equivalent to Matthew 7.
i put "never" because never is implied by study of the scripture.

To jump in here...
What The Lord means by this statement, is this, He never Knew you...as his servant.
Why?
Though he gives you his commands, through the Holy Spirit...You do not do them.
How can you be a servant of Righteousness, (Good Works), if you don't keep his commands?

 

[Goliath]

you honestly do not seem to have the same definition of "Christian" as the Bible does.

no one whose trust is in the Lord will ever be ashamed, and those who depart from us prove they were never one of us.
The Evil One has sown tares among the wheat. tares are not wheat who changed their nature; tares are tares and have never been wheat at all. tares reveal themselves as tares in time to have never been wheat in the first place; they never had the substance of wheat and are nothing but tares disguised as wheat.
do you disagree?

perhaps you ought to tell us your personal definition of what a 'Christian' is?
that would help us come to some kind of mutual understanding that we can proceed from.

Fair enough.
A Christian is a servant of Jesus Christ. Many do not share in my definition, because to be a servant of Jesus Christ, requires you to keep his commands. And to keep his commands, requires Works. And we both know that Word had been vilified in the church.

 

[posthuman]

Fair enough.
A Christian is a servant of Jesus Christ. Many do not share in my definition, because to be a servant of Jesus Christ, requires you to keep his commands. And to keep his commands, requires Works. And we both know that Word had been vilified in the church.

aren't you contradicting yourself then, to say there are both saved Christians and unsaved Christians?
see your quote below:

Many folks believe as you do, that being there is only one type of Christian, a saved Christian. The Parable of the Ten Virgins says different. Notice...they all had lamps!! And they all went out to meet him!!
If you are honest with yourself, you must admit, this parable shows Two types of Christians.

there you say everyone with a lamp is a Christian.
so are the lamps works? what works?
by the definition of Christian you gave me, all these are servants of God who do works. ((what works?))
and if the lamps are works, what is the oil?
some are unsaved even though they are His servants doing His works ((what works?)). why? what do they lack?

 

[Goliath]

For anyone who wants to know....the meaning of "The Ten Virgins".
All ten virgins were given the gift of the Holy Spirit/Lamps.
The Oil in the Lamp is the instruction one receives through the Holy Spirit, an instruction that keeps you in the Light and leads to salvation. This is the oil the Wise Virgins use.

The foolish virgins were given Lamps/Holy Spirit, but they chose not to use the instruction provided by the Holy Spirit. Instead they followed the popular, but false teachings of men. Many of which require you to pay for this oil/instruction. One trip to a "Christian" book store will show you this is true.
I ask, Why would these men, men who claim to Love you, make you pay for information which they believe can save you???
Go to any of these book stores, and you will find your most beloved teachers.....are selling the oil.
Just check...they are all there!!

Now when Jesus comes, the foolish virgins will finally turn to the Wise virgins, for some instruction. But by then, it's too late to save them. And the wise virgins, in a sarcastic statement, will tell the foolish virgins...to seek the instruction, of those teachers they chose over the Holy Spirit. Those who sell the oil.

Now the sarcasm is not out of spite, but out of pure frustration. Frustration.... because the Wise Virgins know there is nothing they can do to save their Brothers now. I know, because I feel this Frustration every single day. All their lives, the wise virgins tried to tell the foolish virgin..., "Learn from the Holy Spirit", but they reject the teachings...which come directly from God, for the false teachings which come from men, and sadly many will not discover they were false...until it's to late to be saved.

 

[posthuman]

And we both know that Word had been vilified in the church.

i could equally say grace has been vilified -- every time someone affirms that salvation is by faith, not of works, a number of people arise and accuse them of hating works, and of trying to excuse a life full of willful sin.