Rapture True or False.

TMS · Mar 31, 2023

That's not what the bible states. No pre tribulation.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Jesus comes and then the marriage supper begins.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

The bridegroom is Jesus and He comes to His bride.
Before the wedding starts.

1Th 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

No secret rapture is mentioned.
As it was in the time of Noah.

kat-ab-ol-ay · Mar 31, 2023

1 Thess 4:17 reads like the faithful will meet Christ in the air, but that is not the subject there. It’s paramount that one identifies the subject in someone’s writing to understand the message being implied. You can not insert your own subject in someone else’s writing.

The subject in 1 Thess 4:17, is not rapture. You have to back up to verse 4:13, to identify the subject. 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep. This is the subject, Paul doesn’t want you to be ignorant where the dead are. If you have trouble identifying the subject here, take your Bible to a high school English teacher, and have them point the subject out.

1Thess 4:17 is basically describing another one of Paul’s writings, 1 Cor 15:52, which says at the last trump, which is the seventh trump, there is a body change that takes place in the twinkling of an eye, the moment the True Christ appears on earth. Why the body change one may ask. Christ is here on earth and the millennium is about to begin. And everyone needs a body that is guaranteed to last a 1000 years
.
One needs to understand what this word, AIR, means In 1Thess 4:17. It does not mean sky or atmosphere. It would be more correct to mean, the breath of life body, the soul and spirit. And this is how we meet Christ, in our new air body, our soul/spirit.

soberxp · Mar 31, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

The way I look at it, we may not be able to change what the Bible says about suffering, the period of tribulation.

But we should live by every word of God Matthew 4:4
,We need to live by the right words of God and send the right message to others.

We are witnesses to God's word, we are not witnesses to the word of this world,We should be wary of some human words in the world,Sometimes we have to put up with the words of others for the sake of freedom of speech, but we only witness God's word.

What we love is not the way the world is made by fallen man. We love the new heavens and the new earth established by God's Word.

If all of us are able to communicate God's Word correctly to others, I think perhaps we can alleviate and lessen this period of tribulation.

kat-ab-ol-ay · Mar 31, 2023

The rapture. God law is, EVERYONE, has free will to do whatever they choose, provided it doesn’t harm anyone else. They and they only choose their path, and they and they only will make their decisions, from cradle to grave, period.

What I’m getting at is this, the rapture will not be automatic in selecting the ones being raptured, before anyone goes anywhere, they will be asked, to you want to go or stay on earth. Each and everyone will make that choice on their own. This is how free will works.

Whats so important about this end time choice, is your very soul depends on it. As Christian, we know that there will be two supernatural entities appear on earth in these latter days, both will claim to be Jesus Christ. The choice is yours and yours alone, which one will you choose to follow, the first or the second one that appears on earth. Your choice had better be right, to take part in the FIRST RESURRECTION. Get it wrong, it will be a 1000 years later, at the end of the millennium, before one get a chance at the SECOND RESURRECTION. Miss out here, it’s the lake of fire.

Ive said all this to educate, to get one to think about the seriousness of the choice coming up, that everyone will be forced to make, be it right or wrong. To make the wrong choice, one looses out on the highest honor flesh being can achieve, and that would be to take part in the first resurrection. I mention this to help, not hurt.

It says anti christ will deceive the whole world, Rev 12:9. Just shows how good he is in being deceitful. Many preachers and layman alike will fall victim. And let me stress, these are very God loving people. Who may have spent a life time in church, doing their best, but risk throwing it all away, here at the very last, just by possibly making the wrong choice. There are only two choices, do you choose to follow the first Christ, or do you choose to wait, and follow the second Christ. Sounds to simple, but it’s written, many will get it wrong.

cv5 · Mar 31, 2023

GaryA said:

False.
ἐν τάχει "IN QUICKNESS" is the proper Greek terminology.
@TheDivineWatermark has been thru this a thousand times with you. What's your problem?

1722 [e]ἐν
en in Prep

5034 [e]τάχει
tachei quickness N-DNS

Revelation 1:1 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com)

Rev 1:1
The Revelation G602 of Jesus G2424 Christ, G5547 which G3739 God G2316 gave G1325 unto him, G846 to shew G1166 unto his G846 servants G1401 things which G3739 must G1163 shortly G1722 G5034 come to pass; G1096 and G2532 he sent G649 and signified G4591 it by G1223 his G846 angel G32 unto his G846 servant G1401 John: G2491

cv5 · Mar 31, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Not in the Greek. Says the same thing in ALL manuscripts. WAKE UP for pity's sake.

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ, τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνει,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνει / Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦς Χριστός ὅς δίδωμι αὐτός ὁ θεός δεικνύω ὁ δοῦλος αὐτός ὅς δεῖ γίνομαι ἐν τάχος καί σημαίνω ἀποστέλλω διά ὁ ἄγγελος αὐτός ὁ δοῦλος αὐτός Ἰωάννης

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεός δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ

Cameron143 · Mar 31, 2023

cv5 said:

Not in the Greek. Says the same thing in ALL manuscripts. WAKE UP for pity's sake.

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ, τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνει,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνει / Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦς Χριστός ὅς δίδωμι αὐτός ὁ θεός δεικνύω ὁ δοῦλος αὐτός ὅς δεῖ γίνομαι ἐν τάχος καί σημαίνω ἀποστέλλω διά ὁ ἄγγελος αὐτός ὁ δοῦλος αὐτός Ἰωάννης

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ,

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεός δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ

It's a nice bit of scholarship. Still wrong.

Beckie · Mar 31, 2023

God kids were in Egypt during the plagues.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 31, 2023

GaryA said:

Question: Are you putting both "begin" and "to come to pass" for the same Greek word here? Just wondering

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 31, 2023

Beckie said:

So will Israel be in the Tribulation period. Some of them will come to faith in Christ during that time, which is much of its purpose (Hosea 5:14-6:3 and other passages)

cv5 · Mar 31, 2023

TMS said:

Wrong. The Jewish marriage ceremony has TWO PHASES.

1) The "snatch"/honeymoon at the Father's house aka honeymoon meant to consummate the marriage. No feast no celebration that includes the entire village.
2) The WEDDING SUPPER/FEAST where the ALREADY MARRIED BRIDE AND GROOM prepare a celebration where there are GUESTS that are invited from the villiage.

The truth is that the harpazo and 7 year honeymoon are over, and Jesus the Bridegroom is coming FROM heaven TO earth WITH His Bride the Saints to prepare/celebrate the WEDDING SUPPER.

Rev 19:7
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his (ALREADY MARRIED) wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him (FROM HEAVEN) upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

cv5 · Mar 31, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Go ahead and try to prove it genius. I'm all ears.

KohenMatt · Mar 31, 2023

False.

Cameron143 · Mar 31, 2023

cv5 said:

My apologies. I meant to respond to Gary.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 31, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

the Greek wording: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/1/1/t_concr_1168001

Beckie · Mar 31, 2023

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

cv5 · Mar 31, 2023

TMS said:

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 31, 2023

@Beckie 's Post #56,

No one is denying such.

In fact, Paul acknowledged the "persecutions AND TRIBULATIONS" that the Thessalonians "endure[d]" in their own day, per 2Th1:4.
And indeed "ALL that will live godly in Christ Jesus SHALL SUFFER PERSECUTION" (etc etc)... The Church which is His body has been experiencing this throughout its existence since the first century (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])...

...we are not waiting for the future, specific, LIMITED time-period [7-yr Trib period] in order to experience it.

cv5 · Mar 31, 2023

Beckie said:

This is NOT the same as the WRATH of God so noted in Revelation that is meted out to the "earth dwellers".
Willful ignorance and poor scholarship begets all sorts of heresies and unbiblical myths.
Don't let this kind of guilt fall upon you.

Nothing could be clearer than what is laid out in these passages.

G3709 - orgē - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

Jhn 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath G3709 of God abideth on him.
Rom 1:18
For the wrath G3709 of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath G3709 against the day of wrath G3709 and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath G3709 through him.
Col 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath G3709 of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath G3709 of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17
For the great day of his wrath G3709 is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath G3709 is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; G3709 and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Beckie · Mar 31, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

Never said anything about anyone denying anything... simply posting some scriptures i found interesting. Please no need to attack.

I was kinda thinking about how the decuples died.

Rapture True or False.

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