Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists
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Nice try but nope.
Jesus is talking about believers and preachers too but mostly believers. He said, "..i also pray for those that will believe me through their message.." not to be taken out of this world but be protected from the evil.
The context does not start at John 16 and Jesus always spoke about the church/believers.
Jesus is talking about believers and preachers too but mostly believers. He said, "..i also pray for those that will believe me through their message.." not to be taken out of this world but be protected from the evil.
The context does not start at John 16 and Jesus always spoke about the church/believers.
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John 17:20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
Jesus' prayer was for disciples and all believers of all time including us that non should be taken out from the world but be protected from evil. The rest are just your own ideas.
Jesus' prayer was for disciples and all believers of all time including us that non should be taken out from the world but be protected from evil. The rest are just your own ideas.
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John 16 -
12 I have yet many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Because of this, I said that He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you.
[John 7:39 - "Now He said this concerning the Spirit, whom those having believed in Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."]
12 I have yet many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Because of this, I said that He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you.
[John 7:39 - "Now He said this concerning the Spirit, whom those having believed in Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."]
The air is the holy unseen place of faith. It like a blank canvas is the opportunity the father of lies seizes after as that in which the Christian are forbidden to seek after. .
We have the complete revelation the book of the law the bible sealed with 7 seals and are warned of that air. . The place of opportunity for signs as lying wonders they come pre- mixed with the strong delusion that God sends.
The graves made up of a massive number of Old testament saints ( ten thousands) signaled by a earth quake were opened. Witnessed by the angels in heaven. Opening the ressurection gate when Jesus said it is finished. The veil is rent . That gate will remain open until the last day .
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
We have the complete revelation the book of the law the bible sealed with 7 seals and are warned of that air. . The place of opportunity for signs as lying wonders they come pre- mixed with the strong delusion that God sends.
The graves made up of a massive number of Old testament saints ( ten thousands) signaled by a earth quake were opened. Witnessed by the angels in heaven. Opening the ressurection gate when Jesus said it is finished. The veil is rent . That gate will remain open until the last day .
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Sorry friend but I have to disagree with your pinball doctrine. You have us and Jesus bouncing around between heaven and earth. You have a groom without a bride for a crazy amount of time. You acknowledge the Church as His body but yet He's unmarried to His own body? How long is Christ dating His church? You even seem unsure who makes up the bride, is it 5, is it 10? In your view we are not in the MK yet meaning we are not in His Kingdom yet? Meaning, we are outside of the kingdom to this day, apart from Him, although somehow we are His body? Does your view also have us all going to Hades when we die waiting for the resurrection? How can we be the body sitting apart in Hades while He is in Heaven?
Let me state what the real situation is without explaining it out.
70 AD to Today and beyond:
Those of us alive and remaining after these events, when we die, we go straight to heaven, to the place prepared for us. PERIOD end of story. No bouncing around. Our bodies decay and return to dust, our spiritual body which was trapped inside the tent of our physical body rises from our dead flesh body and away we go, "raptured" to heaven. The Earth isn't coming to an end. Christ isn't coming back bodily to sit on some stupid man-made throne in some future temple in Jerusalem. We are in the MK now and have been since 70 AD.
Let me state what the real situation is without explaining it out.
- Christ died 30-33 AD
- Christ returned 67 AD, The Mosaic Age came to an end. The LAST DAY
- Christ went down to Hades and resurrected the Saints 67 AD
- The Wrath of the Lamb was poured out on disbelieving Israel 67-70 AD
- Jewish Christians were safe in Pella
- The Great Tribulation of Jerusalem 70 AD
- All Christians were gathered into the Kingdom, dead or alive, 67-70 AD, spiritual event
- The Wedding feast of the Lamb 70 AD, Bride and Groom married, as one
- It is done.
70 AD to Today and beyond:
Those of us alive and remaining after these events, when we die, we go straight to heaven, to the place prepared for us. PERIOD end of story. No bouncing around. Our bodies decay and return to dust, our spiritual body which was trapped inside the tent of our physical body rises from our dead flesh body and away we go, "raptured" to heaven. The Earth isn't coming to an end. Christ isn't coming back bodily to sit on some stupid man-made throne in some future temple in Jerusalem. We are in the MK now and have been since 70 AD.
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You have a point Noose. I've never considered that verse to be referring to the last day but it could encompass it. I don't see why it couldn't apply to the entire history of the Church including the time of the end.
I wish people would be more open to honest and rational discussion about this particular subject.
I wish people would be more open to honest and rational discussion about this particular subject.
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Yes, when we die. Paul should have stated it clearer.
Yes, at the same time!! "that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him."
You cited this passage. This means we are His bride right now!! It isn't a future event. It's an on-going event. When someone accept Christ into their hearts, they are born again and Christ/Father/HS indwell. This person joins the kingdom with all of those who went ahead of us and are in heaven. So whether we are alive or in heaven, we are all in the Kingdom of God.
You also cited 2 Cor 5:1-8 with an exclamation point but you wrongly interpret it. This passage describes our physical body as a temporary tent. When it dies, our spiritual self steps out of it and is whisked off to heaven.
Yes, at the same time!! "that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him."
You cited this passage. This means we are His bride right now!! It isn't a future event. It's an on-going event. When someone accept Christ into their hearts, they are born again and Christ/Father/HS indwell. This person joins the kingdom with all of those who went ahead of us and are in heaven. So whether we are alive or in heaven, we are all in the Kingdom of God.
You also cited 2 Cor 5:1-8 with an exclamation point but you wrongly interpret it. This passage describes our physical body as a temporary tent. When it dies, our spiritual self steps out of it and is whisked off to heaven.
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For as in the days that were
before the flood they were
eating and drinking, marrying
and giving in marriage, until
the day that Noe entered into the ark
.....then shall two men be in a field
One taken the other left.
Jesus VIVIDLY placed the rapture before the gt.(before the flood...before judgement...he also used lot to make sure we know we are removed)
Btw what are you going to do with the verse that Jesus said "not a hair of your head will be harmed"
All but John were martyred gruesomly by the devil
I thought we were protected?
Mentally pigeonholing verses is not wise
before the flood they were
eating and drinking, marrying
and giving in marriage, until
the day that Noe entered into the ark
.....then shall two men be in a field
One taken the other left.
Jesus VIVIDLY placed the rapture before the gt.(before the flood...before judgement...he also used lot to make sure we know we are removed)
Btw what are you going to do with the verse that Jesus said "not a hair of your head will be harmed"
All but John were martyred gruesomly by the devil
I thought we were protected?
Mentally pigeonholing verses is not wise
[Addressing PlainWord's Post #211] I said it has to be connected with the verb "caught up" (i.e. at the same time as "them"/the dead in Christ who "shall rise first" when they are "caught up"--AT THE SAME TIME)
I didn't elaborate.
Because I've made posts on that passage before (and I added that line last, during "edit" and knew I wouldn't have time to spell it all out [what the passage involves and other passages that touch on the same]).
I don't even have the time presently
... but perhaps you may recall (briefly):
--"unclothed" (in this passage) refers to our [/believers] being apart from our body, for a time, UPON "DEATH"
--"clothed upon" refers to our [/believers] being immediately clothed upon with our glorified bodies APART from having to DIE FIRST (this takes place for the "still-living" believers [the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"] ONLY at "our Rapture" point-in-time; this connects with the "still-living" ["mortal"] sections of the 1Cor15:51-54 passage [where Paul is disclosing "A MYSTERY," not something the OT saints already WELL-KNEW!], where the other halves of those verses speak of "the DEAD in Christ" [those believers who have DIED: "this corruptible"]); so view vv.3-4 in this light
[1Cor15:51-54 specifically addressing "THIS mortal" and "THIS corruption [/corruptible]" in this "mystery" he is disclosing here, regarding "the Church which is His body" (all those saved "in this present age [singular]")]
I didn't elaborate.
Because I've made posts on that passage before (and I added that line last, during "edit" and knew I wouldn't have time to spell it all out [what the passage involves and other passages that touch on the same]).
I don't even have the time presently
... but perhaps you may recall (briefly):--"unclothed" (in this passage) refers to our [/believers] being apart from our body, for a time, UPON "DEATH"
--"clothed upon" refers to our [/believers] being immediately clothed upon with our glorified bodies APART from having to DIE FIRST (this takes place for the "still-living" believers [the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"] ONLY at "our Rapture" point-in-time; this connects with the "still-living" ["mortal"] sections of the 1Cor15:51-54 passage [where Paul is disclosing "A MYSTERY," not something the OT saints already WELL-KNEW!], where the other halves of those verses speak of "the DEAD in Christ" [those believers who have DIED: "this corruptible"]); so view vv.3-4 in this light
[1Cor15:51-54 specifically addressing "THIS mortal" and "THIS corruption [/corruptible]" in this "mystery" he is disclosing here, regarding "the Church which is His body" (all those saved "in this present age [singular]")]
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
This passage is also badly mis-understood. Many take it as a rapture passage, Christ coming back and rapturing us to heaven. Christ leaving to prepare heaven, then coming back thousands of years later at some point in our future, after enough rooms are built, to gather all the dead and living saints. This view is DEAD WRONG!!
Christ is speaking directly to his disciples. His words are for them. Christ is about to die, leave them, come back briefly, then ascend to heaven, to prepare a place for them. He then says He is going to come again and receive them and that nobody comes to the Father except through Jesus. For them to get to heaven, they must be resurrected, not raptured alive.
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
This passage is also badly mis-understood. Many take it as a rapture passage, Christ coming back and rapturing us to heaven. Christ leaving to prepare heaven, then coming back thousands of years later at some point in our future, after enough rooms are built, to gather all the dead and living saints. This view is DEAD WRONG!!
Christ is speaking directly to his disciples. His words are for them. Christ is about to die, leave them, come back briefly, then ascend to heaven, to prepare a place for them. He then says He is going to come again and receive them and that nobody comes to the Father except through Jesus. For them to get to heaven, they must be resurrected, not raptured alive.
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Wrong way to think. Jesus wasn't praying for them to be safe from persecution because he knows most will be martyred and he tells them that in Mat 24, but rather was praying for them not to be seduced by the evil one and turned away from their faith as so many of their countrymen would be.
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