Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists
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Jesus in John 17 is simply praying against rapture so?!
Jesus does not say "protect them against evil until they are glorified then you can take them out of the world", He says "do not take them out of the world but protect them.."
Being not of the world does not mean you must step outside this world, it simply mean do not conform to the world but being transformed with the renewal of the spirit. So many times Jesus said He is not of this world while He was walking in this world.
Jesus does not say "protect them against evil until they are glorified then you can take them out of the world", He says "do not take them out of the world but protect them.."
Being not of the world does not mean you must step outside this world, it simply mean do not conform to the world but being transformed with the renewal of the spirit. So many times Jesus said He is not of this world while He was walking in this world.
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Wrong.
John 17:
15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by d the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
The last part covers you and me and all believers in this end times even those at the very end. Non is to be taken out of this world but all should be protected from the evil one.
John 17:
15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by d the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
The last part covers you and me and all believers in this end times even those at the very end. Non is to be taken out of this world but all should be protected from the evil one.
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Paul was raptured, I suppose if he was speaking of himself as most assume.
It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up (RAPTURED) to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up (RAPTURED) into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Regardless of who it was, it is clear that this raptured person returned to earth and himself and didn't stay in heaven.
It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up (RAPTURED) to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up (RAPTURED) into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Regardless of who it was, it is clear that this raptured person returned to earth and himself and didn't stay in heaven.
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Pre-tribbers are not suggesting the Church which is His body "stays in heaven," but I have continually pointed out how we (the Church which is His body, of whom "the Rapture" SOLELY pertains) RETURNS *WITH [G4862]* Him, when HE "RETURNS" to the earth (as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom") FOR the promised and promised earthly Millennial Kingdom [not as its "Subjects"], aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [on the earth]"...
IOW, "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" (to whom "the MARRIAGE" itself pertains) is not "the Guests [PLURAL]," nor the "10 [nor even 5] Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," nor "the Servants [plural; of that specific, limited (future) time period]" (to whom "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [aka the MK inauguration] pertains)... He is not returning/coming to MARRY the "10 [or 5] Virgins [PLURAL]"! (they enter the MK age [as "saints" having come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture, IN/DURING the trib yrs] upon His "RETURN" there; see also Lk12:36-37,38,40-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!)
I don't believe ANY "saints" will be missing from the MK age... ALL will be present and accounted for... and only "saints" will ENTER it (at its commencement/starting point in time).
The question becomes... how long does "the Church which is His body" go up for, before His "RETURN" to the earth at Rev19 (I already provided the vid showing the manuscript evidence for Rev5:9 saying "US")
IOW, "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" (to whom "the MARRIAGE" itself pertains) is not "the Guests [PLURAL]," nor the "10 [nor even 5] Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," nor "the Servants [plural; of that specific, limited (future) time period]" (to whom "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [aka the MK inauguration] pertains)... He is not returning/coming to MARRY the "10 [or 5] Virgins [PLURAL]"! (they enter the MK age [as "saints" having come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture, IN/DURING the trib yrs] upon His "RETURN" there; see also Lk12:36-37,38,40-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!)
I don't believe ANY "saints" will be missing from the MK age... ALL will be present and accounted for... and only "saints" will ENTER it (at its commencement/starting point in time).
The question becomes... how long does "the Church which is His body" go up for, before His "RETURN" to the earth at Rev19 (I already provided the vid showing the manuscript evidence for Rev5:9 saying "US")
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Not true.
Your statement does not take into consideration the actual phrase (and specific wording) used, where it says,
"caught up TOGETHER WITH them"
Consider [quoting from BibleHub], regarding the word translated "together" (in kjv), "G260 hama" -
"In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Thessalonians 5:10, where ἅμα is followed by σύν, ἅμα is an adverb (at the same time) and must be joined to the verb."
[end quoting]
so, "caught up [<--that's the verb] together [<--that's connected to that verb; the verb-action is CONNECTED with this word] with [G4862 - a word denoting 'union' and/or 'identification'] them..."
This means they ("the dead in Christ" [who shall rise (be resurrected) first] AND the "we which are alive and remain unto") are "caught up" (like PAUL, a SINGULAR person) TOGETHER... AS ONE BODY!
(this is the EVENT known as our Rapture; it will occur at a particular future point in time--one point in time)
In fact, Paul distinguishes what happens at our death, and what happens at our Rapture, in 2Cor5:1-8!
Your statement does not take into consideration the actual phrase (and specific wording) used, where it says,
"caught up TOGETHER WITH them"
Consider [quoting from BibleHub], regarding the word translated "together" (in kjv), "G260 hama" -
"In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Thessalonians 5:10, where ἅμα is followed by σύν, ἅμα is an adverb (at the same time) and must be joined to the verb."
[end quoting]
so, "caught up [<--that's the verb] together [<--that's connected to that verb; the verb-action is CONNECTED with this word] with [G4862 - a word denoting 'union' and/or 'identification'] them..."
This means they ("the dead in Christ" [who shall rise (be resurrected) first] AND the "we which are alive and remain unto") are "caught up" (like PAUL, a SINGULAR person) TOGETHER... AS ONE BODY!
(this is the EVENT known as our Rapture; it will occur at a particular future point in time--one point in time)
In fact, Paul distinguishes what happens at our death, and what happens at our Rapture, in 2Cor5:1-8!
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The time of 1st century reformation. A time of trouble Jacob , such as never before or ever since. Michael the prince of peace the head messenger his Son who he has spoken though in the last days ,
Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, (rapture) and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever
In other words its the first time he took one nation made up of two nations to teach other nations how to hear the voice of God not seen called, walking by faith.
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to "this time", no, nor ever shall be.
The time of reformation has come. No more demonstrations.
Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, (rapture) and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever
In other words its the first time he took one nation made up of two nations to teach other nations how to hear the voice of God not seen called, walking by faith.
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to "this time", no, nor ever shall be.
The time of reformation has come. No more demonstrations.
Yes, they (the resurrected) were taken up from Hades into Heaven. Air (Aer) often means the third heaven. Satan was the prince and power of what? The Air (AER).
Peter states that Paul is difficult to understand. He clearly has everybody miffed in this passage but look at it in the YLT, which is the most accurate:
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be.
The dead rise first (which they did around 67/68 AD), the last day of the age. Then we are are still living, not resurrected (remaining over past it), we get caught away in clouds to heaven (when we die). Paul should have added "when we die" as it would have made it much clearer. Paul doesn't discuss any mortal becoming transformed into immortal beings here, does he? There are historical records of the resurrection but not of any massive group of living Christians flying away to heaven, sorry. There is also no other place where this idea is taught. Jesus certainly never taught it.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
Both can't be right if your interpretation is correct. Under my interpretation, both are correct!!
Peter states that Paul is difficult to understand. He clearly has everybody miffed in this passage but look at it in the YLT, which is the most accurate:
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be.
The dead rise first (which they did around 67/68 AD), the last day of the age. Then we are are still living, not resurrected (remaining over past it), we get caught away in clouds to heaven (when we die). Paul should have added "when we die" as it would have made it much clearer. Paul doesn't discuss any mortal becoming transformed into immortal beings here, does he? There are historical records of the resurrection but not of any massive group of living Christians flying away to heaven, sorry. There is also no other place where this idea is taught. Jesus certainly never taught it.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
Both can't be right if your interpretation is correct. Under my interpretation, both are correct!!
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Roman historian Cassius Dio in Epitome of Book 62 records the resurrection and Nero witnessed it:
16 As a secondary achievement connected with his sojourn in Greece he conceived a desire to dig a canal across the isthmus of the Peloponnesus, and actually began the task. Men shrank from it, however, be, when the first workers touched the earth, blood spouted from it, groans and bellowings were heard, and many phantoms appeared. 2 Nero himself thereupon grasped a mattock and by throwing up some of the soil fairly compelled the rest to imitate him
16 As a secondary achievement connected with his sojourn in Greece he conceived a desire to dig a canal across the isthmus of the Peloponnesus, and actually began the task. Men shrank from it, however, be, when the first workers touched the earth, blood spouted from it, groans and bellowings were heard, and many phantoms appeared. 2 Nero himself thereupon grasped a mattock and by throwing up some of the soil fairly compelled the rest to imitate him
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Ignatius, in The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians in Chapter 9, "Let us Live with Christ" also recorded the resurrection.
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death — whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master — how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead.
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death — whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master — how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead.
Jesus is not speaking of end times in John 17 He is speaking of the Work of the church specifically the disciples. And the context starts in Chapter 16 Not in 17. Jesus did not speak of the taking of the church HERE Because they had not even been empowered as Jesus said would happen in its 1:8. Jesus was assuring them the Gospel message would not be hindered even if the whole world hated them because Jesus over came the world. SO GO!!! and DO the work That I did and do more of it. So saying one is wrong does not make you right.
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