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“The teaching on women in the Bible is the Word of God. The Holy Spirit has given those words to Paul, so Paul is not the originator of any teaching”
“And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.”
1 Corinthians 7:10, 12 KJV
why is Paul saying in one place “ the lord is saying this “ and in another place “ I’m saying this not the lord ?”
heres niv incase that’s the issue your having
“To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.”
1 Corinthians 7:10, 12 NIV
it’s like your unable to hear what someone else is saying even when what they are saying is simple paul eas not always speaking on behalf of God as a commandment and anyways there’s a difference in a woman who’s married , a woman who’s married to a believer , a woman who’s married to non believer , unmarried women ect ect
It seems really simple to me paul says in one place he’s “speaking for the lord “in the other he says “ I’m saying this not the lord “ it’s hard to discuss things with you brother
“And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.”
1 Corinthians 7:10, 12 KJV
why is Paul saying in one place “ the lord is saying this “ and in another place “ I’m saying this not the lord ?”
heres niv incase that’s the issue your having
“To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.”
1 Corinthians 7:10, 12 NIV
it’s like your unable to hear what someone else is saying even when what they are saying is simple paul eas not always speaking on behalf of God as a commandment and anyways there’s a difference in a woman who’s married , a woman who’s married to a believer , a woman who’s married to non believer , unmarried women ect ect
It seems really simple to me paul says in one place he’s “speaking for the lord “in the other he says “ I’m saying this not the lord “ it’s hard to discuss things with you brother
HAHAHAHAH
The word "chatter" is not even found in Scripture in this context! So you are already off on the wrong foot.
According to the context, there was no chattering in the churches. Even the NASB does not translate that Greek word laleo as "chatter".
NASB Translation
made (1), proclaiming (1), said (6), say (5), saying (7), says (2), speak (95), speak forth (1), speaking (54), speaks (25), spoke (44), spoken (38), stating (1), talked (1), talking (5), tell (1), telling (1), things spoken (2), told (7), uttered (1), whispered* (1)
The issue was "speaking". Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak*; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. (1 Cor 14:34)
*Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2980: λαλέω
2. to speak, i. e. to use the tongue or the faculty of speech; to utter articulate sounds: absolutely 1 Corinthians 14:11.
In fact that would be quite an insulting assumption regarding the churches and the women at that time. The issues were quite different. Women were attempting to speak in tongues publicly, and Paul made it clear that that was unacceptable to God. Women were to keep silent in church meetings and also be in submission ("under obedience") to their own husbands. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Cor 14:35) That is a very strong statement. "It is a shame" because the women shame both themselves and the whole church!
Then women were attempting to teach and usurp authority in the churches, and that too was unacceptable to God. And Paul makes this quite clear in 1 Timothy 2. So anyone trying to promote disobedience to these Scriptures is promoting rebellion. And the Bible says that rebellion is "as the sin of witchcraft" (1 Sam 15:23).
Then you have taken several passages OUT OF CONTEXT to prove your point. Not a single one of those passages relates to New Testament church gatherings or meetings for worship.
The word "chatter" is not even found in Scripture in this context! So you are already off on the wrong foot. According to the context, there was no chattering in the churches. Even the NASB does not translate that Greek word laleo as "chatter".
NASB Translation
made (1), proclaiming (1), said (6), say (5), saying (7), says (2), speak (95), speak forth (1), speaking (54), speaks (25), spoke (44), spoken (38), stating (1), talked (1), talking (5), tell (1), telling (1), things spoken (2), told (7), uttered (1), whispered* (1)
The issue was "speaking". Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak*; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. (1 Cor 14:34)
*Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2980: λαλέω
2. to speak, i. e. to use the tongue or the faculty of speech; to utter articulate sounds: absolutely 1 Corinthians 14:11.
In fact that would be quite an insulting assumption regarding the churches and the women at that time. The issues were quite different. Women were attempting to speak in tongues publicly, and Paul made it clear that that was unacceptable to God. Women were to keep silent in church meetings and also be in submission ("under obedience") to their own husbands. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Cor 14:35) That is a very strong statement. "It is a shame" because the women shame both themselves and the whole church!
Then women were attempting to teach and usurp authority in the churches, and that too was unacceptable to God. And Paul makes this quite clear in 1 Timothy 2. So anyone trying to promote disobedience to these Scriptures is promoting rebellion. And the Bible says that rebellion is "as the sin of witchcraft" (1 Sam 15:23).
Then you have taken several passages OUT OF CONTEXT to prove your point. Not a single one of those passages relates to New Testament church gatherings or meetings for worship.
It was in response to Keneth that he is correct no one should chatter, speak, murmur but all, Men, women child should be silent in church; they should be there to learn the WORD of GOD! You can’t hear if you are all talking at same time or can’t understand what a person is speaking and Paul was not speaking of the Pentecostal tongue here but tongues of foreign language where you need an interpreter..
To speak=Gr. laleo=utter, speak out
Very few Women were taught to read and certainly not different languages back then, they were not to ask the husband disrupting the church on what was said –interpretation of languages the subject, wait until they got home to ask them not while church was going on.
Definition of chatter-is to talk fast, incessantly, and foolishly. Paul was speaking to those speaking in tongues he even said that men should keep silent that only one should be speaking, not just women. When those spoke in unknown tongue’s it was chatter to the rest.
Where do you think people gathered in the time of Paul and the Apostles? Some great church marked with a big cross? Paul was even one that persecuted the early church. The true Christian church of their time was the many member body just as CHRIST said it would be.
They gathered in secret in homes usually marked with the fish symbol. Christians were being hunted down, crucified.
I’ll give you this that women by most men were as a second class citizen back then but that didn’t keep those who were learned and loved GOD from standing up when there was no man to. Those were dangerous times and a woman making a circuit would be very dangerous and the only reason they didn’t except Phillip and his 4 daughters in a bad place.
When Paul made his circuits one of his favorite place was that of Priscilla’s who ran a church in her home besides helping husband making tents as Paul did. I say she ran it because she was the prevalent figure.
Act 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
I would like to see you tell Mary the mother of CHRIST she could not speak, or Mary Magdalene who often spoke out. Or Martha, or Pricilla
If women went to the Temple in Jerusalem they best not speak out for they would have been stoned with the strict Legalist of the Sanhedrin they crucified the WORD HIMSELF for speaking truth.
Act 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
A disciple of the LORD, well known in Joppa and many were taught of the LORD by HER.
Very few women could read at the time, they had many chores but there were those who were learned and taught others and brought yes even men to the LORD.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Smiths-Prisca-(Pauls pet name for her) (Priscilla) the wife of Aquila 2Tim4:19 The name of the wife is placed before that of the husband in Ro. 16:3: 2 Tim. 4:19; and according to some of the best MSS in Acts 18:26. Hence we should be disposed to conclude that Priscilla was the more energetic of the two. In fact we may say that Pricilla is an example of what married women may do for the general service of the Church, in conjunction with home duties, as Phoebe is the type of the unmarried servant of the church or deaconess.
Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
This certainly does not sound like Paul is telling her to be silent for she was unmarried and ran her church. Paul even said receive her as one of the Apostles a Saint. She brought many to truth.
Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
Rom 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
I usually dont get into vain arguments as Scriptures tells us to stay from but as a Christian man hard for me to not stand up for my Christian sisters when this subject comes up. In many homes and Churches they are leaders and have been since this age. You want to tell 53% of the population that they cant be a leader or even speak in church. Good thing I listen to what GOD says and not man. I pray every day HE keeps my eyes open and thank HIM everyday that HE opens my eyes and not deceived by man.
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Lol thanks..... Let me try again...... I think Paul was saying that the "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” part of the curse stands, even after we get saved. Which is why wives must submit to their husbands and not teach or have authority over men. But the "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children" part of the curse is broken for those women who are earnestly following Christ. We are, in essence, preserved or protected from that part if we do what He says.
I have spoken to many God-fearing ladies who said their deliveries were amazingly peaceful, even when things went wrong and required emergency response. They did not bring their children forth in sorrow at all, rather in joy.
I have spoken to many God-fearing ladies who said their deliveries were amazingly peaceful, even when things went wrong and required emergency response. They did not bring their children forth in sorrow at all, rather in joy.
Okay let's see if we can't put this thing to bed. Proverbs 31 it's all about a good wife. Before we start I want to give you a little background on my life. My wife is the love of my life, she has stood by my side and supported me could not have accomplished many of the things that I have without her help. Okay I'd like to start this in Proverbs 31 verse 10. who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies verse 11 the heart of her husband death safely trust in her so that he shall have no need of spoil. verse 12 she will do him good and not evil all the days of her life and it keeps going all the way down to verse 22 about how the woman works tirelessly to help her husband. Now let's take a verse about the husband and how he should act. Okay verse 23. Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the Elders of the land. No one resolute for that knowledge respected from all at The City Gate: this means that he is respected by all those that sit at The City Gate. The City Gate was a place of gathering it was a place where people came air grievances here with the city leaders have to say Etc. Which includes high and low rich and poor peasants, laborers and judges. are you that man? Okay we're going to go down to 25 and see just what the role of the wife should be. Strength and honor are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. Verse 26 she opened her mouth with wisdom and in her tongue it's the law of kindness. Verse 27 she looked as well to the way of her household, and eat not the bread of idleness verse 28. Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also and he and he phrases her. We're going to close with verse 30. favor is deceitful, and beauty is vain :But a woman that feareth the Lord she shall be praised.
Are you no one of the gates, are you a man that the people of your community can turn to and get wise counsel? Are you the husband that your wife will want to look up to, we'll want to respect and listen to. The husband is not supposed to rule over the wife with an iron fist. Why did God make Eve? To be a helpmate for Adam. She was not to be a slave to him, she was not to be a doormat for him to walk on. God fully intended for Eve to work side by side with Adam in the garden. Of course God knowing all things beforehand knew that this was not going to be the case and thus the fall of Man. Adam gave up his role as head of the house, he should never have let Eve get anywhere near the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil but he did not do that thus fall of Man. I know I have covered all of this but I'm going to go through something one more time; You we'll find In the Old Testament women that judged Israel, that taught the prophets, and even led the men into war. If you do not know what a judge is in the Old Testament they were like the king they did exactly what the name says. THEY JUDGED THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL. Lets go to The New Testament. Let's go to Acts chapter 18 we're going to look at verses 1 and 2. after these things Paul Departed from Athens and came to corrupt; and he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; because that Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome: and came unto them.
This is the first time that Paul will meet both Aquila and his wife Priscilla.
Then let's go to Romans chapter 16. Starting in verse 1. I command unto you Phoebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Here again we see that Paul is introducing another woman as a servant of the church. She is not a pure warmer, but someone that has influence and work to do in the church.
Verse 2. That you receive her in the Lord has becometh Saints and that you assist her in whatsoever business she have need of you: for she has been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Here again we find that Paul is commanding the church to assist THIS WOMAN IN WHAT SO EVER BUSINESS SHE HAVE NEED OF YOU: Paul did not say that the women only should a sister in whatever business she have it does say all of you need to assist her. Paul did not say of her that she was to sit in a corner be quiet and not involved herself in the work of the church. Verse 3. Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
Paul gives Piriscilla top billing here by putting her name first.
verse 4. Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
Here again we see that Periscilla get the top billing.
And you can find other places in the Bible where women take a very active role in church affairs. I am not saying here that woman is in charge of the man, what I am saying is that there are times when a man gives his wife the opportunity to use the talent that God has given her, give her the right to do what God has asked of her even if that means that in the church she may have a position that puts her over him.
I want to give you some personal information. My wife and I have been together dating and marriage 33 years. I have a deeper more fulfilling love for her today than I did when we were first married or even first dating. Yes God's order is Him first, then the husband, and then the wife. This does not give the husband the right or the authority to tell his wife to sit down shut up and sit in your corner. This goes for at home and in the church. Just like with Priscilla and Aquila Paul gives her first billing, because she is the one that God has chosen to use above her husband. I'll say again in the 33 years that we have been together I can only think of three or maybe four times that Brenda and I have not seen eye to eye on things after we have prayed together, slept on whatever problem was facing us, or decision that we needed to make before we came together to make it. Of those times there is only one for after my own praying, and time of meditation have not come back to her in a week or so and told her yes let's go ahead and do whatever it was we were talking about doing. There has only been one time when I have said that we needed to hold off on doing something. Things worked out that in about 4 to 6 weeks we got some more business and were able to afford to do what she had wanted and I told her she could go ahead and do it. I am always quick to tell people that God has blessed me with the proverbs 31 wife.
I hope that this makes clear my interpretation and my understanding of what God has to say. There is another place in Proverbs that talks about having a contentious woman in the house it's no piece of cake. I am not going to look it up right now and go through it, but it is up to the man to help the woman become a God-fearing woman.
May God bless you and keep you, and with His love, Kenneth
Are you no one of the gates, are you a man that the people of your community can turn to and get wise counsel? Are you the husband that your wife will want to look up to, we'll want to respect and listen to. The husband is not supposed to rule over the wife with an iron fist. Why did God make Eve? To be a helpmate for Adam. She was not to be a slave to him, she was not to be a doormat for him to walk on. God fully intended for Eve to work side by side with Adam in the garden. Of course God knowing all things beforehand knew that this was not going to be the case and thus the fall of Man. Adam gave up his role as head of the house, he should never have let Eve get anywhere near the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil but he did not do that thus fall of Man. I know I have covered all of this but I'm going to go through something one more time; You we'll find In the Old Testament women that judged Israel, that taught the prophets, and even led the men into war. If you do not know what a judge is in the Old Testament they were like the king they did exactly what the name says. THEY JUDGED THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL. Lets go to The New Testament. Let's go to Acts chapter 18 we're going to look at verses 1 and 2. after these things Paul Departed from Athens and came to corrupt; and he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; because that Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome: and came unto them.
This is the first time that Paul will meet both Aquila and his wife Priscilla.
Then let's go to Romans chapter 16. Starting in verse 1. I command unto you Phoebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Here again we see that Paul is introducing another woman as a servant of the church. She is not a pure warmer, but someone that has influence and work to do in the church.
Verse 2. That you receive her in the Lord has becometh Saints and that you assist her in whatsoever business she have need of you: for she has been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Here again we find that Paul is commanding the church to assist THIS WOMAN IN WHAT SO EVER BUSINESS SHE HAVE NEED OF YOU: Paul did not say that the women only should a sister in whatever business she have it does say all of you need to assist her. Paul did not say of her that she was to sit in a corner be quiet and not involved herself in the work of the church. Verse 3. Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
Paul gives Piriscilla top billing here by putting her name first.
verse 4. Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
Here again we see that Periscilla get the top billing.
And you can find other places in the Bible where women take a very active role in church affairs. I am not saying here that woman is in charge of the man, what I am saying is that there are times when a man gives his wife the opportunity to use the talent that God has given her, give her the right to do what God has asked of her even if that means that in the church she may have a position that puts her over him.
I want to give you some personal information. My wife and I have been together dating and marriage 33 years. I have a deeper more fulfilling love for her today than I did when we were first married or even first dating. Yes God's order is Him first, then the husband, and then the wife. This does not give the husband the right or the authority to tell his wife to sit down shut up and sit in your corner. This goes for at home and in the church. Just like with Priscilla and Aquila Paul gives her first billing, because she is the one that God has chosen to use above her husband. I'll say again in the 33 years that we have been together I can only think of three or maybe four times that Brenda and I have not seen eye to eye on things after we have prayed together, slept on whatever problem was facing us, or decision that we needed to make before we came together to make it. Of those times there is only one for after my own praying, and time of meditation have not come back to her in a week or so and told her yes let's go ahead and do whatever it was we were talking about doing. There has only been one time when I have said that we needed to hold off on doing something. Things worked out that in about 4 to 6 weeks we got some more business and were able to afford to do what she had wanted and I told her she could go ahead and do it. I am always quick to tell people that God has blessed me with the proverbs 31 wife.
I hope that this makes clear my interpretation and my understanding of what God has to say. There is another place in Proverbs that talks about having a contentious woman in the house it's no piece of cake. I am not going to look it up right now and go through it, but it is up to the man to help the woman become a God-fearing woman.
May God bless you and keep you, and with His love, Kenneth
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There was more than one question Asked in this post, why is it that every post has been on question #1.
Question 2&3 were about the end times and when the Anti Christ will return. In this day and time we need to be watchman. What did Jesus tell us in Mark 13:23 But take heed behold I have foretold you all things. Jesus should have told us in at least one place if not more about these 2 questions. let's see if we can't find them let's go back to the Book of Matthew chapter 13. Verse 1 the same day when Jesus out of the house and sat by the seaside. Verse 2 and great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore. And he spoke many things unto them in parables saying behold A sower went out to sow. We are not going to get into the parable of the sower and the seed but we are going to dig into one of the parables. Jesus did not give us these parables it's nice little short stories or bedtime stories for children he gave them to us as a teaching tool. We need to treat them as such.
there are a couple of verses that I want to get into before we really start the study. Matthew chapter 13. verse 9 he who hath ears to hear Let Him hear. Verse 10 and the disciples came, and said unto him, why speak to thou unto them in Parables? Verse 11. And he answered and said unto them, because it is given: unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given. Verse 12. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundantly: mark but whoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he had. Verse 13. therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Do you have ears to hear and eyes to see with? I don't know you so I can't really answer that question but I hope so.
verse 24. Sharpen up this is why we came here. Other parable put he forth unto them, saying, the Kingdom of Heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: verse 25 that while the men slept his enemy came and so tears among the wheat, and went his way. I want to stop here because for quite some time I overlooked a word or 2 in verse 25, and that was very important that while the man slept his enemy came. The men were supposed to be on watch to sound the alarm if the enemy approached; but instead of being on watch the men fell asleep. Verse 26. but when the blades were sprung up, and brought forth through, then appeared the tears also. Verse 27. So the Servants of the housekeeper came and said unto him, sir, didst not thou so good seed in thy field? From whence then at it tears? verse 28.He said unto them, and enemy has done this. The servants said unto him, wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? Verse 29 but he said, Nay list while you gather up the Terrors, he wrote up also the wheat with them. Verse 30 let both grow together until the Harvest: and in the time of the Harvest I( now notice there's something strange about this the owner of the house is going to go out at the time of harvest) the owner didn't help sow the seed, the owner didn't stand watch over the field, but he is going to do the harvesting) verse 30. Let both grow together until the Harvest: mark and in the time of the Harvest I will say to the Reapers, gathered together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into the barn. So what do we have in this Parable so far; the kingdom of heaven is like a man which so good seed in his field. He had some workers that weren't so good because they fell asleep on their watch and allowed his enemy to come in and so bad seed in his field. No knew that there was bad seed in the field until they began to grow. The workers wanted to pull the tares out of the field the owner told them no. He was afraid that the workers might also pull up some of the wheat. So they let it grow together until the Harvest Time were the Reapers will gather together first the tears bind them in bundles to burn them and then gather the wheat into the barn.
I want to stop right here give you a chance to read this and to think about it before we go any further.
I look forward to bringing you part two later on have a blessed day. Kenneth.
Question 2&3 were about the end times and when the Anti Christ will return. In this day and time we need to be watchman. What did Jesus tell us in Mark 13:23 But take heed behold I have foretold you all things. Jesus should have told us in at least one place if not more about these 2 questions. let's see if we can't find them let's go back to the Book of Matthew chapter 13. Verse 1 the same day when Jesus out of the house and sat by the seaside. Verse 2 and great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore. And he spoke many things unto them in parables saying behold A sower went out to sow. We are not going to get into the parable of the sower and the seed but we are going to dig into one of the parables. Jesus did not give us these parables it's nice little short stories or bedtime stories for children he gave them to us as a teaching tool. We need to treat them as such.
there are a couple of verses that I want to get into before we really start the study. Matthew chapter 13. verse 9 he who hath ears to hear Let Him hear. Verse 10 and the disciples came, and said unto him, why speak to thou unto them in Parables? Verse 11. And he answered and said unto them, because it is given: unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given. Verse 12. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundantly: mark but whoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he had. Verse 13. therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Do you have ears to hear and eyes to see with? I don't know you so I can't really answer that question but I hope so.
verse 24. Sharpen up this is why we came here. Other parable put he forth unto them, saying, the Kingdom of Heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: verse 25 that while the men slept his enemy came and so tears among the wheat, and went his way. I want to stop here because for quite some time I overlooked a word or 2 in verse 25, and that was very important that while the man slept his enemy came. The men were supposed to be on watch to sound the alarm if the enemy approached; but instead of being on watch the men fell asleep. Verse 26. but when the blades were sprung up, and brought forth through, then appeared the tears also. Verse 27. So the Servants of the housekeeper came and said unto him, sir, didst not thou so good seed in thy field? From whence then at it tears? verse 28.He said unto them, and enemy has done this. The servants said unto him, wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? Verse 29 but he said, Nay list while you gather up the Terrors, he wrote up also the wheat with them. Verse 30 let both grow together until the Harvest: and in the time of the Harvest I( now notice there's something strange about this the owner of the house is going to go out at the time of harvest) the owner didn't help sow the seed, the owner didn't stand watch over the field, but he is going to do the harvesting) verse 30. Let both grow together until the Harvest: mark and in the time of the Harvest I will say to the Reapers, gathered together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into the barn. So what do we have in this Parable so far; the kingdom of heaven is like a man which so good seed in his field. He had some workers that weren't so good because they fell asleep on their watch and allowed his enemy to come in and so bad seed in his field. No knew that there was bad seed in the field until they began to grow. The workers wanted to pull the tares out of the field the owner told them no. He was afraid that the workers might also pull up some of the wheat. So they let it grow together until the Harvest Time were the Reapers will gather together first the tears bind them in bundles to burn them and then gather the wheat into the barn.
I want to stop right here give you a chance to read this and to think about it before we go any further.
I look forward to bringing you part two later on have a blessed day. Kenneth.
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If you want to try and change Gods word that is up to you. I also now of woman and my wife being one that have had easy births and have others that have taken long hard hours with a lot of pain to bring forth the child. So are you saying that my wife is not a Christian just because she had pain in birthing. Who gave you to be the judge to say that women that have no pain are Christian women and those that have pain are not. God is the judge nobody else!
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Hi Kenneth!
I must not have made my point very well. I was not trying to imply that a lack of pain in childbirth reveals who is Christian or not. I know a Godly woman who recently had to have an emergency C-section after a difficult and unsuccessful labor. I do not believe it had anything whatsoever to do with how "Christian" she is, I know that she is a solid believer. Godly women have difficult births all the time, experience miscarriages and even still die in childbirth sometimes. Just as solid, Godly people still die of heart attacks, cancer, and other ailments.
However, now that we have Jesus, He goes with us when we experience difficult things, childbirth included. So even when things go "wrong", if we have Him then we have all we need. So that part of the curse (sorrow in childbirth, sorrow in death and trials, etc.) is broken...and the closer we are to Him, the more peace we feel. In this world, we will have have troubles...but He has overcome this world so that we can even take joy in the trials.
Anyway, my point was that Paul was not talking about Eternal salvation in this passage, 1 Timothy 2:15
15Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
Paul also said that it's better for a person to remain a virgin, so it would make no sense for us to remain virgins if our only way to gain eternal salvation is through childbirth.
However, the Greek words for "save" are Sozo (verb) and Soteria (noun). This word has a variety of meanings, both earthly and eternal. Peter cried out to Jesus to "Sozo" him when he began sinking in the waves, and I think most would agree that he was asking Jesus to save him from the immediate danger of drowning, not the eternal danger of hell. Here is a link to a study on the word "Sozo", I think you will find it interesting:
https://www.preceptaustin.org/save_sozo_greek_word_study
Here is a little bit of the study to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
Saved (4982) (sozo) has the basic meaning of rescuing one from great peril. Additional nuances include to protect, keep alive, preserve life, deliver, heal, be made whole. The context must be considered to determine whether preservation of physical life or spiritual life is in view.
Sozo is sometimes used of physical deliverance from danger of perishing (see Mt 8:25; Mt 14:30; Lk 23:35; Acts 27:20, 27:31), physical healing from sickness (Mt 9:21, 22; Mk 5:23, Acts 4:9), and deliverance from demonic possession (Lk 8:36).
More often sozo refers to salvation in a spiritual sense as illustrated in the following passages: Matthew recorded the angel's conversation with Joseph declaring "She (Mary) will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save (sozo) His people from their sins." (Mt 1:21)
I did not have time to cross-reference every verse mentioned here to make sure I agree with the exact useage, but you get the point and can do that yourself. And it's possible that Paul was even saying women would feel "whole" through having kids, as it is a role given only to women. I do not know. but I do feel confident that Paul was not referring to the eternal meaning of "Sozo" in that passage.
I only mentioned any of this because a few of the guys were saying that the passage was confusing, and I was trying to clear up some confusion.
Thank you for standing up for women and recognizing that we have spiritual worth as well as practical worth. So often we are made to feel like we're only good for keeping the nursery, cleaning the bathrooms, and sweeping the floors after the men are through doing all the spiritual stuff. But God uses us and speaks to us too, as you already know. Your wife sounds like a lovely God-fearing woman, and I'm very glad yall have each other!
All the best, I'm sorry this was so long but I hope I made some sense!
I must not have made my point very well. I was not trying to imply that a lack of pain in childbirth reveals who is Christian or not. I know a Godly woman who recently had to have an emergency C-section after a difficult and unsuccessful labor. I do not believe it had anything whatsoever to do with how "Christian" she is, I know that she is a solid believer. Godly women have difficult births all the time, experience miscarriages and even still die in childbirth sometimes. Just as solid, Godly people still die of heart attacks, cancer, and other ailments.
However, now that we have Jesus, He goes with us when we experience difficult things, childbirth included. So even when things go "wrong", if we have Him then we have all we need. So that part of the curse (sorrow in childbirth, sorrow in death and trials, etc.) is broken...and the closer we are to Him, the more peace we feel. In this world, we will have have troubles...but He has overcome this world so that we can even take joy in the trials.
Anyway, my point was that Paul was not talking about Eternal salvation in this passage, 1 Timothy 2:15
15Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
Paul also said that it's better for a person to remain a virgin, so it would make no sense for us to remain virgins if our only way to gain eternal salvation is through childbirth.
However, the Greek words for "save" are Sozo (verb) and Soteria (noun). This word has a variety of meanings, both earthly and eternal. Peter cried out to Jesus to "Sozo" him when he began sinking in the waves, and I think most would agree that he was asking Jesus to save him from the immediate danger of drowning, not the eternal danger of hell. Here is a link to a study on the word "Sozo", I think you will find it interesting:
https://www.preceptaustin.org/save_sozo_greek_word_study
Here is a little bit of the study to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
Saved (4982) (sozo) has the basic meaning of rescuing one from great peril. Additional nuances include to protect, keep alive, preserve life, deliver, heal, be made whole. The context must be considered to determine whether preservation of physical life or spiritual life is in view.
Sozo is sometimes used of physical deliverance from danger of perishing (see Mt 8:25; Mt 14:30; Lk 23:35; Acts 27:20, 27:31), physical healing from sickness (Mt 9:21, 22; Mk 5:23, Acts 4:9), and deliverance from demonic possession (Lk 8:36).
More often sozo refers to salvation in a spiritual sense as illustrated in the following passages: Matthew recorded the angel's conversation with Joseph declaring "She (Mary) will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save (sozo) His people from their sins." (Mt 1:21)
I did not have time to cross-reference every verse mentioned here to make sure I agree with the exact useage, but you get the point and can do that yourself. And it's possible that Paul was even saying women would feel "whole" through having kids, as it is a role given only to women. I do not know. but I do feel confident that Paul was not referring to the eternal meaning of "Sozo" in that passage.
I only mentioned any of this because a few of the guys were saying that the passage was confusing, and I was trying to clear up some confusion.
Thank you for standing up for women and recognizing that we have spiritual worth as well as practical worth
. So often we are made to feel like we're only good for keeping the nursery, cleaning the bathrooms, and sweeping the floors after the men are through doing all the spiritual stuff. But God uses us and speaks to us too, as you already know. Your wife sounds like a lovely God-fearing woman, and I'm very glad yall have each other! All the best, I'm sorry this was so long but I hope I made some sense!
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Adam was just as guiltily in a of this as Eve was and maybe even more because He was Her husband and God gave the command to Him to pass on to Eve. No where in chapter 2 or 3 did God speak to Eve. My may He did, but it does not say anywhere that He had a conversation with Eve. I personally believe he did but I can not prove it.
Yes I am the head of the household and as the head of the household I make sure that we make major decisions together and in the 2 or 3 times in all those years that I thought we should not do something we talked about it, she would tell why she thought we should do it; I would take her input we would pray about it sleep on it and talk the next day and I thank twice I said ya lets go ahead and do it and once I said no. Then in about 2 months later I came back to her and said I thank we can afford to go ahead and what it was she wanted to do. Remember God made Eve to be a help mate for him, not for him to be her master which is what it sounds like you are trying to do.
I am just taking what you have written here and coming up with that idea. It may be right it may not be right. My wife is the love of my life. When we were in business she was my sounding board I have learned to respect her abilities. You need to read and I mean slow down and consider everything you are reading. Verse 10 Who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies. Verse 11.The heart of her husband does safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. Verse 12.She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. Let's go down to verse 23. Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
I wan to stop right here I gust got a message from Sankerman not to long ago and I am sorry, in trying to make my point that woman are not second class people, and that God will use whom ever He wills I have over steep by bounds. I am starting to try and tell people what to do in there marriage. That is wrong I am sorry if I have offended anyone I am sorry. Please forgive me if I have.
Yes I am the head of the household and as the head of the household I make sure that we make major decisions together and in the 2 or 3 times in all those years that I thought we should not do something we talked about it, she would tell why she thought we should do it; I would take her input we would pray about it sleep on it and talk the next day and I thank twice I said ya lets go ahead and do it and once I said no. Then in about 2 months later I came back to her and said I thank we can afford to go ahead and what it was she wanted to do. Remember God made Eve to be a help mate for him, not for him to be her master which is what it sounds like you are trying to do.
I am just taking what you have written here and coming up with that idea. It may be right it may not be right. My wife is the love of my life. When we were in business she was my sounding board I have learned to respect her abilities. You need to read and I mean slow down and consider everything you are reading. Verse 10 Who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies. Verse 11.The heart of her husband does safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. Verse 12.She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. Let's go down to verse 23. Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
I wan to stop right here I gust got a message from Sankerman not to long ago and I am sorry, in trying to make my point that woman are not second class people, and that God will use whom ever He wills I have over steep by bounds. I am starting to try and tell people what to do in there marriage. That is wrong I am sorry if I have offended anyone I am sorry. Please forgive me if I have.
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Aquila and Priscilla helped Apollo not Paul:
"And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly." Acts 18:24-26
"And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly." Acts 18:24-26
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While Aquila and Priscilla are known for their assistance to Apollos in the Scriptures, they also had a close relationship with the apostle Paul. Aquila and Priscilla were tentmakers by trade, like Paul, and they worked together with him in Corinth (Acts 18:1-3). They hosted Paul in their home and were fellow laborers in spreading the Gospel. Their partnership with Paul extended beyond just their interactions with Apollos. Aquila and Priscilla were valued companions and supporters of Paul in his ministry endeavors.
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I would like to move on to more questions than Just should woman be allowed to speak in church. My post #52 should have cleared this up. God will use whomever He wills; man, woman, child, or a donkey in the case of Balaam in Numbers 22.
Matthew13.
Verse 36. Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and the disciples came unto Him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. Verse 37. He answered and said unto them, He that soweh the good seed is the Son of Man; Verse 38.The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Verse 39.The enemy that sowed them is the devil; and the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Verse 40. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Verse 41. The Son of man shall send forth his angles, and they shall gather out of the kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Verse 42. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of the Father. Who hath ears to hear, let them hear.
This should be very easy to understand if you will just lay aside the church doctrine, pray and ask God to give you eyes to see and ears to hear.
What is the first thing that Jesus does? He sent the multitude away: The bible does not say, but I am sure that Jesus kindly dismissed the people. He goes into the house where His disciples had gathered, and they were waiting for Him; and what is the first thing they do? They go to Jesus and ask Him just what the parable of the wheat and tares mean. This is very important Jesus brakes it down so that anyone that wants can understand it.
Verse 37. The sower of the good seed in The Son of Man. Who is the Son of Man? Jesus. Verse 38. This is important because Jesus is not only going to explain what He meant but He is also going to to interpret something for us. The field is the would, the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares, (the weeds) are the children of the wicked one one. When is the harvest? Verse 39 says plainly says the harvest is at the end of the world. The same verse tells us that those that will reap the harvest are the angles. Verse 40 Tells us that it is the tares are gathered first and burned in the fire. What does that verse go on to compare this to, or better yet out right say? So shall it be in the end of the world. This is the way God has set things up to happen. This is His plan. Verse 41. The Son of Man (Jesus) shall send forth His angles and they shall gather out of His Kingdom; Stop the presses something has changed here; you had better check the doctrine and the teaching of your church. I thought that Jesus was talking about a wheat field; BUT now He says it is the kingdom and He is gathering all things out of it that offend, and them that do iniquity. Verse 42. And cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Remember Jesus told us, The field is the world. What is God going to clear out first at the end of the world. The weeds, the children of the evil one, everything that offends. His angles, God's angles are going to do that and remove ALL THE TARES, THE WEEDS, AND EVERYTHING THAT OFFENDS. Verse 43 Then and only then will God set His kingdom up in that field that is filled with the wheat; Then and only then shall the children of God shine forth in the Kingdom of God. Let him that has ears to hear; HEAR!
For those that say Pastor is leading us astray, and that I should leave the church and learn how to study my bible, you better read his and compare it to what your being taught! I know I got a little pointed here but I will back my pastor but more importantly I will stand up for God and His Word.
This is all said in love and in hopes of opening some eyes to see and ears to hear.
In His love your Brother in Christ Jesus.
Matthew13.
Verse 36. Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and the disciples came unto Him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. Verse 37. He answered and said unto them, He that soweh the good seed is the Son of Man; Verse 38.The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Verse 39.The enemy that sowed them is the devil; and the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Verse 40. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Verse 41. The Son of man shall send forth his angles, and they shall gather out of the kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Verse 42. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of the Father. Who hath ears to hear, let them hear.
This should be very easy to understand if you will just lay aside the church doctrine, pray and ask God to give you eyes to see and ears to hear.
What is the first thing that Jesus does? He sent the multitude away: The bible does not say, but I am sure that Jesus kindly dismissed the people. He goes into the house where His disciples had gathered, and they were waiting for Him; and what is the first thing they do? They go to Jesus and ask Him just what the parable of the wheat and tares mean. This is very important Jesus brakes it down so that anyone that wants can understand it.
Verse 37. The sower of the good seed in The Son of Man. Who is the Son of Man? Jesus. Verse 38. This is important because Jesus is not only going to explain what He meant but He is also going to to interpret something for us. The field is the would, the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares, (the weeds) are the children of the wicked one one. When is the harvest? Verse 39 says plainly says the harvest is at the end of the world. The same verse tells us that those that will reap the harvest are the angles. Verse 40 Tells us that it is the tares are gathered first and burned in the fire. What does that verse go on to compare this to, or better yet out right say? So shall it be in the end of the world. This is the way God has set things up to happen. This is His plan. Verse 41. The Son of Man (Jesus) shall send forth His angles and they shall gather out of His Kingdom; Stop the presses something has changed here; you had better check the doctrine and the teaching of your church. I thought that Jesus was talking about a wheat field; BUT now He says it is the kingdom and He is gathering all things out of it that offend, and them that do iniquity. Verse 42. And cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Remember Jesus told us, The field is the world. What is God going to clear out first at the end of the world. The weeds, the children of the evil one, everything that offends. His angles, God's angles are going to do that and remove ALL THE TARES, THE WEEDS, AND EVERYTHING THAT OFFENDS. Verse 43 Then and only then will God set His kingdom up in that field that is filled with the wheat; Then and only then shall the children of God shine forth in the Kingdom of God. Let him that has ears to hear; HEAR!
For those that say Pastor is leading us astray, and that I should leave the church and learn how to study my bible, you better read his and compare it to what your being taught! I know I got a little pointed here but I will back my pastor but more importantly I will stand up for God and His Word.
This is all said in love and in hopes of opening some eyes to see and ears to hear.
In His love your Brother in Christ Jesus.
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I have been gone for a few days and I see we are right where we left off. I was going to skip any further response for the WORD when read with understanding should be clear. But since my Character has come under assault, and credibility questioned I have no choice but to carry it at least 1 more post on it. But it also leans into Kenneth’s next question, for it is related.
I knew exactly where Kenneth was going when he says women shouldn’t chatter, having done a study on this years ago.
If we read with understanding in 1Corinthian, Timothy, about church order we learn what Paul was talking about. I believe GOD leaves certain scripture open to interpretation because if something doesn’t make sense HE wants HIS children to STUDY! When Bible is clear that there are women teachers who are not silent and you have some macho boys come and say women need to be submissive to men and not speak in church. I got news for you, all who overcome are brides of CHRIST (spiritually).
There never are contradictions in GODS WORD just man’s translation and interpretations of them. and the unlearned misleading parceling words turning would be Christians away from. For some no matter what you show them they will never admit to being wrong.
Timothy a perfect example of women teachers; Timothy was taught scripture by his mother (Eunice/)and grandmother (Lois) who were Hellenist; Hebrews who spoke and studied in the Greek tongue, they were of Israel Paul was proud of the work Timothy was doing and Spiritually adopted him as his son.
If we go to 1Cor. 1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Strong’s want help here it is wrong (to speak-2980) word: you have to go to the MS and the one at British museum is one of best that is readily available to the public for small subscription, or use to be.
The word to speak :34=-Gr-λαλεῖν (lalein) — 21 Occurrences
: GRK: ἐπιτρέπεται αὐταῖς λαλεῖν ἀλλὰ ὑποτασσέσθωσαν
KJV: unto them to speak; but
Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
GRK: ἐστιν γυναικὶ λαλεῖν ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ
KJV: for women to speak in
Why would Paul in 14:33 bring up “GOD is not the author of confusion” talking of not just the women but men also. In :34 he goes on to say for it is not for women to speak=very important for in the Oldest Greek manuscript of British museum of the best Manuscript we can still get today the word is lalein= to babble. It is, its only meaning babble; there are other renditions of it like chatter as a bird chirps, and ape sounds but is is babble! and why Paul says :33 GOD is not the author of confusion=babble=confusion.
λαλεῖν is employed not only of men, especially when chatting and prattling, Moreover, the primary meaning of λαλεῖν, to utter oneself, can be rendered chatter.
From the British museum who has the best set NT of Greek MS that are readily available to the public today.
to speak Gr=lalein; ein is very important
Strongs has this 2980 laleo as is very wrong, the word in MS is lalein and has only 1 meaning= to babble; 1 rendition is to make ape sounds. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance- preach, say, speak A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. Utter words -- preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare lego. see GREEK lego
1st off there is no law from GOD that tells a woman to be silent in church, from man but not GOD. As stated before Miriam, Moses sister prophesied in the presence of GOD; never read where GOD told her to sit down and shut up. Acts 2, and Joel 2 GOD said in the end of days both sons and daughters will prophecy where HOLY SPIRIT speaks through them.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Many read right over what Paul said: But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth; how can you Prophesy if you are silent? Paul is not talking about hair. Certainly not about some cloth vail for mans sake that does nothing. Prophesying is teaching. If one doesn’t get that than I am sorry, you will never get it and denying the Doctrine . Man and women best have their head covered with CHRIST because Satan and the fallen are coming back and the reason of head covering, not in submission to man as some here suggested.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
Women in this final generation have to be careful for the fallen are coming back to seduce and take as wives just as they did in the days of Noah.
If you read on in chapter 11 it would tell you if man needed this it would be a perverted act for the angels are all male.
Just as in the days of Noah these spiritual beings are perfect without a flaw on them; that is the way GOD made us all. They will be more handsome than anyone you have ever seen in the flesh. They will have 100% brain power and will speak elegantly and flawless and would be hard to resist their temptations unless you know what is to happen and have CHRIST as your vail.
This is for the woman preachers (prophesying in verse 5) because you are the very 1st ones, those of the pulpit Satan and his cronies are coming after. He has the rest of the world and those who do not understand the true WORD of GOD and spreading false teachings you are doing the work for Satan, the mark in the right hand.
Paul in Rom. 16, 10 of 29 people praised by Paul were women.
Anyone who try to place them as second class citizens WILL answer to GOD. Paul in 1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Paul here says “I” suffer not a woman to teach; Paul probably still had in his possession the letter and decree to carry out persecutions of early church. He had firsthand knowledge of the dangers for Christians. It was clear Paul had special place in his heart for women teachers.
You tell Kenneth and me to read the Holy Scriptures; It seems you should take your own advice! What do you think these women did to get such high acclaim by Paul? They didn’t sit around and just washed men’s feet. There is a lot of scripture twisting going on but I see no fault in Kenneth’s post’s nor mine. Saying his pastor is a “false pastor”? NO! Calling right wrong and turning things upside down.
We both walked you through scripture that disclaims what you think it means for “women to be silent in church”
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
I hope all move on as OP wanted for I think we all see the truth, at least those who want to see. Paul says some have to let go to the devil before their eyes are opened I hope that is none of you for it is a bad place to get too, even harder to get out.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
We have bigger fish to fry! not very long from now if people do not have the seals by now in our minds and call themselves learned Christians Satan and the Fallen in their full glory and spiritual bodies are coming after you first, he already has everyone else. 1st the pulpit and then self professed Christians. ALL men and woman best have CHRIST over them!!!
I knew exactly where Kenneth was going when he says women shouldn’t chatter, having done a study on this years ago.
If we read with understanding in 1Corinthian, Timothy, about church order we learn what Paul was talking about. I believe GOD leaves certain scripture open to interpretation because if something doesn’t make sense HE wants HIS children to STUDY! When Bible is clear that there are women teachers who are not silent and you have some macho boys come and say women need to be submissive to men and not speak in church. I got news for you, all who overcome are brides of CHRIST (spiritually).
There never are contradictions in GODS WORD just man’s translation and interpretations of them. and the unlearned misleading parceling words turning would be Christians away from. For some no matter what you show them they will never admit to being wrong.
Timothy a perfect example of women teachers; Timothy was taught scripture by his mother (Eunice/)and grandmother (Lois) who were Hellenist; Hebrews who spoke and studied in the Greek tongue, they were of Israel Paul was proud of the work Timothy was doing and Spiritually adopted him as his son.
If we go to 1Cor. 1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Strong’s want help here it is wrong (to speak-2980) word: you have to go to the MS and the one at British museum is one of best that is readily available to the public for small subscription, or use to be.
The word to speak :34=-Gr-λαλεῖν (lalein) — 21 Occurrences
: GRK: ἐπιτρέπεται αὐταῖς λαλεῖν ἀλλὰ ὑποτασσέσθωσαν
KJV: unto them to speak; but
Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
GRK: ἐστιν γυναικὶ λαλεῖν ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ
KJV: for women to speak in
Why would Paul in 14:33 bring up “GOD is not the author of confusion” talking of not just the women but men also. In :34 he goes on to say for it is not for women to speak=very important for in the Oldest Greek manuscript of British museum of the best Manuscript we can still get today the word is lalein= to babble. It is, its only meaning babble; there are other renditions of it like chatter as a bird chirps, and ape sounds but is is babble! and why Paul says :33 GOD is not the author of confusion=babble=confusion.
λαλεῖν is employed not only of men, especially when chatting and prattling, Moreover, the primary meaning of λαλεῖν, to utter oneself, can be rendered chatter.
From the British museum who has the best set NT of Greek MS that are readily available to the public today.
to speak Gr=lalein; ein is very important
Strongs has this 2980 laleo as is very wrong, the word in MS is lalein and has only 1 meaning= to babble; 1 rendition is to make ape sounds. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance- preach, say, speak A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. Utter words -- preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare lego. see GREEK lego
1st off there is no law from GOD that tells a woman to be silent in church, from man but not GOD. As stated before Miriam, Moses sister prophesied in the presence of GOD; never read where GOD told her to sit down and shut up. Acts 2, and Joel 2 GOD said in the end of days both sons and daughters will prophecy where HOLY SPIRIT speaks through them.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Many read right over what Paul said: But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth; how can you Prophesy if you are silent? Paul is not talking about hair. Certainly not about some cloth vail for mans sake that does nothing. Prophesying is teaching. If one doesn’t get that than I am sorry, you will never get it and denying the Doctrine . Man and women best have their head covered with CHRIST because Satan and the fallen are coming back and the reason of head covering, not in submission to man as some here suggested.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
Women in this final generation have to be careful for the fallen are coming back to seduce and take as wives just as they did in the days of Noah.
If you read on in chapter 11 it would tell you if man needed this it would be a perverted act for the angels are all male.
Just as in the days of Noah these spiritual beings are perfect without a flaw on them; that is the way GOD made us all. They will be more handsome than anyone you have ever seen in the flesh. They will have 100% brain power and will speak elegantly and flawless and would be hard to resist their temptations unless you know what is to happen and have CHRIST as your vail.
This is for the woman preachers (prophesying in verse 5) because you are the very 1st ones, those of the pulpit Satan and his cronies are coming after. He has the rest of the world and those who do not understand the true WORD of GOD and spreading false teachings you are doing the work for Satan, the mark in the right hand.
Paul in Rom. 16, 10 of 29 people praised by Paul were women.
Anyone who try to place them as second class citizens WILL answer to GOD. Paul in 1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Paul here says “I” suffer not a woman to teach; Paul probably still had in his possession the letter and decree to carry out persecutions of early church. He had firsthand knowledge of the dangers for Christians. It was clear Paul had special place in his heart for women teachers.
You tell Kenneth and me to read the Holy Scriptures; It seems you should take your own advice! What do you think these women did to get such high acclaim by Paul? They didn’t sit around and just washed men’s feet. There is a lot of scripture twisting going on but I see no fault in Kenneth’s post’s nor mine. Saying his pastor is a “false pastor”? NO! Calling right wrong and turning things upside down.
We both walked you through scripture that disclaims what you think it means for “women to be silent in church”
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
I hope all move on as OP wanted for I think we all see the truth, at least those who want to see. Paul says some have to let go to the devil before their eyes are opened I hope that is none of you for it is a bad place to get too, even harder to get out.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
We have bigger fish to fry! not very long from now if people do not have the seals by now in our minds and call themselves learned Christians Satan and the Fallen in their full glory and spiritual bodies are coming after you first, he already has everyone else. 1st the pulpit and then self professed Christians. ALL men and woman best have CHRIST over them!!!
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