Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#4,661
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#4,661
Sipsey said:
So, your gonna ignore what the Scriptures state?
Click to expand...
No.

I'm ignoring seeing only one understanding of scripture,.and so are you.

So don't call me by your own measure

1Tim. 2-
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


You say here Adam was not deceived, with the thought and measure it means one thing only.



Adam was not deceived and neither was eve because they believed God and corrected the snake.

Adam was there the whole time the serpent was delivering deceiving measures, which means Adam and eve would have been eye balling each other.

Eve would have went of expression and replied upon guidance. So at some point they where bewildered



He never ate out of disobedience as in willful . He ate believing he would live.



So he did not eat on the act of disobeying God as he was not deceived that way .

But he still Disobeyed God.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#4,663
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
#4,663
I've figured it all out. But I'm not sure y' all can handle the truth... :unsure:
Eve was deceived but Adam was not deceived. Adam premeditated the mislead Eve with the plan to blame her it all...
Eve was speaking with the serpent when she plucked the fruit and, no, she did not then go and find Adam and give it to him, she gave it to her husband, but everyone pretends that he just "appeared" there because they can face the reality that Adam was...
dun dun dunnnnnnn!.... the serpent embodied in Adam, that is 'man', whose number is....? anyone?
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#4,665
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
#4,665
PennEd said:
Are you saying the serpent tricked Eve by appearing to her as Adam?
Click to expand...
No, I am proposing that Adam was him, whom was cunning above all the other creatures in the garden, and had spiritually fallen before eating the fruit and eating the fruit... how should I say it, 'sealed' the fall? For example, as in the Law, thinking something did not condemn anyone but doing it, but Christ standard doesn't allow for even think it... Scripture warns us against doublemindedness, but to be single-minded in having the same mind of Christ, and it is obvious to me that Adam did not.

But then, yes... I guess that might be a way of deception... Eve had no idea 'who' Adam was... so, they were not "one" ... five minute edit window prevents me from fleshing this thought out though...:unsure: but, I do suppose she 'trusted' him, and whatever he told her.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#4,666
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#4,666
Mem said:
No, I am proposing that Adam was him, whom was cunning above all the other creatures in the garden, and had spiritually fallen before eating the fruit and eating the fruit... how should I say it, 'sealed' the fall? For example, as in the Law, thinking something did not condemn anyone but doing it, but Christ standard doesn't allow for even think it... Scripture warns us against doublemindedness, but to be single-minded in having the same mind of Christ, and it is obvious to me that Adam did not.

But then, yes... I guess that might be a way of deception... Eve had no idea 'who' Adam was... so, they were not "one" ... five minute edit window prevents me from fleshing this thought out though...:unsure: but, I do suppose she 'trusted' him, and whatever he told her.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting take, although I think there are too many holes in it to give very serious consideration.

Just off the top of my head, God spoke to 3 distinct beings upon pronouncing His judgements.
Adam
Eve
The serpent
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#4,667
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#4,667
Mem said:
I've figured it all out. But I'm not sure y' all can handle the truth... :unsure:
Eve was deceived but Adam was not deceived. Adam premeditated the mislead Eve with the plan to blame her it all...
Eve was speaking with the serpent when she plucked the fruit and, no, she did not then go and find Adam and give it to him, she gave it to her husband, but everyone pretends that he just "appeared" there because they can face the reality that Adam was...
dun dun dunnnnnnn!.... the serpent embodied in Adam, that is 'man', whose number is....? anyone?
Click to expand...
incorrect
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#4,668
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#4,668
Mem said:
I've figured it all out. But I'm not sure y' all can handle the truth... :unsure:
Eve was deceived but Adam was not deceived. Adam premeditated the mislead Eve with the plan to blame her it all...
Eve was speaking with the serpent when she plucked the fruit and, no, she did not then go and find Adam and give it to him, she gave it to her husband, but everyone pretends that he just "appeared" there because they can face the reality that Adam was...
dun dun dunnnnnnn!.... the serpent embodied in Adam, that is 'man', whose number is....? anyone?
Click to expand...
Adam was there the whole time eve was being tempted they where both tempted together

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#4,669
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#4,669
Mem said:
and had spiritually fallen before eating the fruit and eating the fruit... how should I say it, 'sealed' the fall?
Click to expand...
Is there ANYTHING in Scripture that can even remotely support this claim?
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#4,670
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
#4,670
PennEd said:
That's an interesting take, although I think there are too many holes in it to give very serious consideration.

Just off the top of my head, God spoke to 3 distinct beings upon pronouncing His judgements.
Adam
Eve
The serpent
Click to expand...
note: I added some thoughts to my original reply to you within the allotted 5 minute window.

God spoke to the serpent that would go on its belly, which I interpret as going on mere appetite... which man the spirit of man now by default

He spoke to Eve about the pain she would endure both in birthing Adam's children and an unrequited (spiritual) desire for him.

And He spoke to Adam about the consequences his body would endure for his doublemindedness, and Adam's 'plan' to blame her was foiled when God judged, "because you have listened to the voice of the woman..." that is, because you went through with the deed regardless of the reason.

However, God also proclaim the reality of His grace toward redemption, for man, but not for that spirit.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#4,671
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#4,671
Mem said:
God spoke to the serpent
Click to expand...
Again, your interpretations are interesting.
Probably not buying them, but I want to be crystal clear about what you are saying here.

Are you saying that the serpent either was Adam, or inhabited Adam? And do you equate the serpent with Satan/Devil?
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#4,672
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
#4,672
PennEd said:
Is there ANYTHING in Scripture that can even remotely support this claim?
Click to expand...
If keep using the edit feature for additional thoughts. I will try to take better care to say everything before posting. It's just that thoughts I should've added occur afterwards.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#4,673
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
#4,673
PennEd said:
Again, your interpretations are interesting.
Probably not buying them, but I want to be crystal clear about what you are saying here.

Are you saying that the serpent either was Adam, or inhabited Adam? And do you equate the serpent with Satan/Devil?
Click to expand...
I don't expect anyone should adopt this interpretation since it goes so far against tradition.
The serpent is the father of lies, so lies are birthed from him, yes.
And since scripture explicitly tells us that Adam was not deceived, then is it 'out of the possibility' that when he saw how easily he deceived Eve, that attempted to deceive even God saying, "the woman gave it to me."? I mean, that wasn't a lie but, in my scenario, it would be nonetheless deception.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#4,674
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
#4,674
I think this explanation provides a better understanding of the Lord's question, "Adam, where are you?"
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#4,675
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
#4,675
Thunderrr-mental said:
eve ate first after she was still alive, so Adam must of thought it was ok


But the thing is defining the whole meaning of one passage, isn't wise
Click to expand...
There is always one primary interpretation of any passage, but many applications. Many people overthink, and therefore complicate the simple, and come to convoluted conclusions.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#4,677
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,207
113
#4,677
All of the descriptions do fit also, ie. Adam received a deadly wound, incurable death.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#4,678
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#4,678
Mem said:
The serpent is the father of lies, so lies are birthed from him, yes.
Click to expand...
I'm still a little confused on your answer.

Adam is the serpent in the Garden of Eden in your view?

And if yes, is Adam Satan?
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#4,679
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
#4,679
Mem said:
I don't expect anyone should adopt this interpretation since it goes so far against tradition.
The serpent is the father of lies, so lies are birthed from him, yes.
And since scripture explicitly tells us that Adam was not deceived, then is it 'out of the possibility' that when he saw how easily he deceived Eve, that attempted to deceive even God saying, "the woman gave it to me."? I mean, that wasn't a lie but, in my scenario, it would be nonetheless deception.
Click to expand...
Do you have any thoughts on why Paul bothered to give priority to the man to teach, if the man is the deceiver versus the woman is the easily deceived?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.