Predestination is misunderstood...
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It implies for others reasons.
Galatians 3:22–23
22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
So it seems when your born your held captive by something. But not sin or satan.
What are you held captive by.
It must be some part of God's will.
What would it be.
Would it be a loss of his will when you fell, like an automatic trigger that disconnected you, that put you straight in to captivity of his will.
Galatians 3:22–23
22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
So it seems when your born your held captive by something. But not sin or satan.
What are you held captive by.
It must be some part of God's will.
What would it be.
Would it be a loss of his will when you fell, like an automatic trigger that disconnected you, that put you straight in to captivity of his will.
Agreed. Paul says that Adam's sin is the cause of everyone's mortality. However he does not say "Adam was our representative in the Adamic covenant, and his sin is our sin, his guilt legally is our guilt." Your systematic is telling you that.
"death passed upon all men...why?...for that all have sinned."
The phrase you have translated as "for that all have sinned" is "eph' hOs (dative singular neuter) pantes hEmarton." i.e. upon which all sinned.
This sets the death of all as the basis upon which all [who sinned] sinned. Upon the death (or decreed mortality) of all, all sinned. Our limited life span pushes us towards sin, taking selfish short-cuts to get good things and avoid bad things while we still have some opportunity to enjoy life. and before the curtain falls on us. As Paul; says elsewhere, we were kept in bondage by the fear of death.
"death passed upon all men...why?...for that all have sinned."
The phrase you have translated as "for that all have sinned" is "eph' hOs (dative singular neuter) pantes hEmarton." i.e. upon which all sinned.
This sets the death of all as the basis upon which all [who sinned] sinned. Upon the death (or decreed mortality) of all, all sinned. Our limited life span pushes us towards sin, taking selfish short-cuts to get good things and avoid bad things while we still have some opportunity to enjoy life. and before the curtain falls on us. As Paul; says elsewhere, we were kept in bondage by the fear of death.
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Where does it say our sin is the result of the fact of our mortality?
Keep reading Romans 5. As in Adam all die...we all have part in Adam's death. That alone makes us part of the covenant. And for all have sinned...does evidence that Adam was our representative and we are under the curse of the law. Otherwise, we don't need Christ as the second Adam. We can attain our own righteousness through the law.
Keep reading Romans 5. As in Adam all die...we all have part in Adam's death. That alone makes us part of the covenant. And for all have sinned...does evidence that Adam was our representative and we are under the curse of the law. Otherwise, we don't need Christ as the second Adam. We can attain our own righteousness through the law.
Sin bound Adam.
I never said God's law is Sin. I said the power of sin comes from the law...1 Corinthians 15:56. Romans 7 speaks to this issue. The knowledge of sin works in us the motions of sin. Before we are aware of sin, we never commit that sin. But as soon as we learn of a sin, our flesh desires to do it. Paul uses the example of coveting in his own life.
I never said God's law is Sin. I said the power of sin comes from the law...1 Corinthians 15:56. Romans 7 speaks to this issue. The knowledge of sin works in us the motions of sin. Before we are aware of sin, we never commit that sin. But as soon as we learn of a sin, our flesh desires to do it. Paul uses the example of coveting in his own life.
Does it actually say the law is a curse.
Is makes reference the law was given before man died.
The curse of the law is referenced as death not the law
As in the two laws God gave Adam and eve before the fall.
Was man under a curse when theese two laws where given
1 don't eat from the tree
2 man shall not live alone.
You have to say the curse of the law is death.
Meaning death curses the law
Is makes reference the law was given before man died.
The curse of the law is referenced as death not the law
As in the two laws God gave Adam and eve before the fall.
Was man under a curse when theese two laws where given
1 don't eat from the tree
2 man shall not live alone.
You have to say the curse of the law is death.
Meaning death curses the law
This might help.
I pray it does like it helped me to understand what we are dealing with.
Interesting point I learned from my pastor...
The English translation leaves us wondering. The Greek does not.
The Greek has a definite meaning.
It is saying that when Adam sinned? We all sinned in that one point in time.
Adam sealed our fate when he sinned..
His fallen nature was passed down to the woman by means of his sperm.
For? In Adam all die.
What about the woman's ovum? The ovum does not transfer the fallen nature.
That is why Jesus had to have no human father.
That is why Genesis 3:15 is specific in its wording that the Messiah would come by means of the "seed of the man."
Not the man's seed.
Jesus could have no human father for that reason. The man's sperm would pass down the sin nature.
grace and peace ............
I pray it does like it helped me to understand what we are dealing with.
Interesting point I learned from my pastor...
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,
and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned. Romans 5:12
The English translation leaves us wondering. The Greek does not.
The Greek has a definite meaning.
It is saying that when Adam sinned? We all sinned in that one point in time.
Adam sealed our fate when he sinned..
His fallen nature was passed down to the woman by means of his sperm.
For? In Adam all die.
What about the woman's ovum? The ovum does not transfer the fallen nature.
That is why Jesus had to have no human father.
That is why Genesis 3:15 is specific in its wording that the Messiah would come by means of the "seed of the man."
Not the man's seed.
Jesus could have no human father for that reason. The man's sperm would pass down the sin nature.
grace and peace ............
Of course it does sound that way 'to you.'
But, you chose it.
That means it reflects something about you.
That is the same kind of argument a sodomite will use when he sees no wrong in what he does...
They see no wrong when evil is on their plate.
KNOCK KNOCK...
After hearing a knock.. No one would open their door if that's the face they saw through the peephole.
Its really you who have a problem. And, its being exposed here in this forum.
Not to mention the condemning tone of some of your posts....
Its a bad combination.
Its dark and foreboding.
Get rid of it if you want a bridge of God's Spirit to prevail.
God exposes our weaknesses, so His grace can be perfected in us. (2 Corinthians 12:9)
grace and peace ...................
But, you chose it.
That means it reflects something about you.
That is the same kind of argument a sodomite will use when he sees no wrong in what he does...
They see no wrong when evil is on their plate.
KNOCK KNOCK...
After hearing a knock.. No one would open their door if that's the face they saw through the peephole.
Its really you who have a problem. And, its being exposed here in this forum.
Not to mention the condemning tone of some of your posts....
Its a bad combination.
Its dark and foreboding.
Get rid of it if you want a bridge of God's Spirit to prevail.
God exposes our weaknesses, so His grace can be perfected in us. (2 Corinthians 12:9)
grace and peace ...................
Romans 5:12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, on the basis of which (eph' hOi) all sinned."
Heb. 2:14-15 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh nd blood, He also likewise took part in the same, that through death he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb. 2:14-15 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh nd blood, He also likewise took part in the same, that through death he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Did anyone curse the law before Adam and eve died @Cameron143
Was it life that cursed the law or death
Does it actually say the law is a curse or death
Is makes reference the law was given before man died.
The curse of the law is referenced as death not the law
As in the two laws God gave Adam and eve before the fall.
Was man under a curse when theese two laws where given
1 don't eat from the tree
2 man shall not live alone.
You have to say the curse of the law is death.
Meaning death curses the law
Was it life that cursed the law or death
Does it actually say the law is a curse or death
Is makes reference the law was given before man died.
The curse of the law is referenced as death not the law
As in the two laws God gave Adam and eve before the fall.
Was man under a curse when theese two laws where given
1 don't eat from the tree
2 man shall not live alone.
You have to say the curse of the law is death.
Meaning death curses the law