Predestination is misunderstood...

[Thunderrr-mental]

Maybe you should .... "hasten the day".

I did not know you where lady.

If I had i speak differently with your disagreement .

I don't like reading profiles

How would I know your lady with name of sawdust

I thought you was a carpenter man.

So this is why Dino hate me, because as always he plays the hero.

 

[brightfame52]

I have the right order even if it goes against the clear reading of scripture. I'd rather follow the RCC John Calvin than scripture. God it.

Can you at least post scripture stating the right order? thanks

I already did post scripture, you forgot that quick ?

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...is-misunderstood.214056/page-188#post-5269583

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You are being way too subjective and are taking things way too personally...

You need something from God that you have not gotten yet.

Subjective what ?

Subjective I tell you your hair nice when it is not.

Listen so firstly I'm not English.

I learn English because I only want to work in England. I am Welsh.

So now question i tell you again.

Just before I struck by lightening.

I saw my self being struck by lightening and I heard message don't go outside.

I ignore message and i go outside.

After being struck by lightening I also remember I had dream about being struck by lightening, this is when I first start to realise I'm dreaming things that come true. 15 years ago.

Then I realise God is talking to me.

So now I am living in past time so how am I free

 

[John146]

I already did post scripture, you forgot that quick ?

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...is-misunderstood.214056/page-188#post-5269583

None of those verses state the order of salvation. Try again. I'll give another passage.

Romans 10:
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1. Someone is sent to preach
2. Someone preaches the gospel
3. One hears the gospel
4. One believes the gospel
5. One calls upon the name of the Lord
6. One is saved

 

[Cameron143]

None of those verses state the order of salvation. Try again. I'll give another passage.

Romans 10:
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1. Someone is sent to preach
2. Someone preaches the gospel
3. One hears the gospel
4. One believes the gospel
5. One calls upon the name of the Lord
6. One is saved

How about this:
God sends a preacher.
A preacher speaks in the power of the Spirit.
God grants hearing.
God circumcises the heart.
Faith is produced.
This is salvation since the only thing necessary for salvation is belief. Everything else that occurs is subsequent to salvation and the inevitable outcome of an awakened mind, heart, and will.
Salvation is a work of God that produces a response in man. New creations respond in new ways.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I see what happened.... I misunderstood something and took what you said out of context....

Here is what you said that made me think you were saying what I shared was "only once."

Every single detail from the words said to the people met, to the type of building ​

or the type of surroundings, have all happend in my dream, and then happened in​

real life in a distance event , the same as in my dream​

​

And it hasn't just happen once but thousands of times.​

Sorry... I truly misunderstood.

I thought for some reason you were comparing my one experience that I shared to you having many....


grace and peace .................

So now third question on the same principal.

Jesus words not mine.

Jesus says who the lord sets free is free indeed.

So how is anyone free.

Next question if you are set free by the lord are you still free.

As the lord is living in you and keeping you and willing you.

 

[John146]

How about this:
God sends a preacher.
A preacher speaks in the power of the Spirit.
God grants hearing.
God circumcises the heart.
Faith is produced.
This is salvation since the only thing necessary for salvation is belief. Everything else that occurs is subsequent to salvation and the inevitable outcome of an awakened mind, heart, and will.
Salvation is a work of God that produces a response in man. New creations respond in new ways.

You are adding to the word of God to fit a narrative. That's not good bible study.

 

[brightfame52]

None of those verses state the order of salvation. Try again. I'll give another passage.

Romans 10:
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1. Someone is sent to preach
2. Someone preaches the gospel
3. One hears the gospel
4. One believes the gospel
5. One calls upon the name of the Lord
6. One is saved

It states it to me. So I showed scripture for what I believe, I cant help it if you dont see it and believe it.

 

[brightfame52]

How about this:
God sends a preacher.
A preacher speaks in the power of the Spirit.
God grants hearing.
God circumcises the heart.
Faith is produced.
This is salvation since the only thing necessary for salvation is belief. Everything else that occurs is subsequent to salvation and the inevitable outcome of an awakened mind, heart, and will.
Salvation is a work of God that produces a response in man. New creations respond in new ways.

God sends the Gospel to them who are already regenerated with a new heart and ears spiritually to hear and believe the Gospel. They are the elect and when its time for them in Gods time, to believe the Truth, He sets them apart by the holy Spirit, which is regeneration, and then He calls them by the Gospel to belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And this of course is grounded in Gods predestination.

 

[Cameron143]

You are adding to the word of God to fit a narrative. That's not good bible study.

No I'm not. Everything after faith is subsequent to salvation. You have added the responses of men to salvation. The responses of men testify to the work of God in salvation, and are not its cause.

 

[Cameron143]

God sends the Gospel to them who are already regenerated with a new heart and ears spiritually to hear and believe the Gospel. They are the elect and when its time for them in Gods time, to believe the Truth, He sets them apart by the holy Spirit, which is regeneration, and then He calls them by the Gospel to belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And this of course is grounded in Gods predestination.

Not sure when regeneration takes place. It is prior to salvation but not necessarily long before it.

 

[John146]

It states it to me. So I showed scripture for what I believe, I cant help it if you dont see it and believe it.

None of these verses is speaking about salvation. Actually, Paul is addressing those who are already saved. The adoption is not salvation. The adoption is clearly defined as a future event. Scripture defines the adoption as the redemption of our body (Rom. 8:23). There's no predestination without salvation coming first. Not one person is predestinated to be in Christ. It's just not there.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

There's no word of Salvation without predestination.

 

[HeIsHere]

You are adding to the word of God to fit a narrative. That's not good bible study.

"God grants hearing"

It is not a good thing to add to the Gospel message, it really is not!

 

[John146]

Not sure when regeneration takes place. It is prior to salvation but not necessarily long before it.

Not sure? Because your stance is not biblical. I have provided scripture stating exactly when it takes place.

 

[HeIsHere]

No I'm not. Everything after faith is subsequent to salvation. You have added the responses of men to salvation. The responses of men testify to the work of God in salvation, and are not its cause.

Faith IN the work of Jesus on our behalf is the vehicle/means for salvation.
God responds to faith, those are His terms, scripture is very clear on this from start to finish.
Faith is simply believing it is not a special word only found in the Bible.

 

[Cameron143]

"God grants hearing"

It is not a good thing to add to the Gospel message, it really is not!

Read Acts 2:37...when they heard this...
Everyone there audibly heard. Not everyone understood. Faith comes by hearing, which includes understanding. Everyone didn't understand. It remained foolishness to them.

Even if you don't believe this, the source of hearing is the word of God. The source of hearing is outside of man. It doesn't come from within.

 

[Cameron143]

Faith IN the work of Jesus on our behalf is the vehicle/means for salvation.
God responds to faith, those are His terms, scripture is very clear on this from start to finish.
Faith is simply believing it is not a special word only found in the Bible.

Faith is given...it's not of yourself.

 

[Cameron143]

Not sure? Because your stance is not biblical. I have provided scripture stating exactly when it takes place.

Not sure when before salvation. I am sure it occurs before salvation...Acts 2:37. What you shared didn't mention God at all.

 

[John146]

Not sure when before salvation. I am sure it occurs before salvation...Acts 2:37. What you shared didn't mention God at all.

What does this verse have to do with our discussion? Peter is preaching repentance to the nation of Israel, not salvation of an individual soul.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

If this is true, and we crucified our Messiah, what shall we do? The question is not, what shall we do to be saved? That question is found later in Acts 16.

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul does not tell him, don't worry friend, you're already saved, now just believe.

 

[Cameron143]

What does this verse have to do with our discussion? Peter is preaching repentance to the nation of Israel, not salvation of an individual soul.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

If this is true, and we crucified our Messiah, what shall we do? The question is not, what shall we do to be saved? That question is found later in Acts 16.

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul does not tell him, don't worry friend, you're already saved, now just believe.

I disagree with your understanding of what is happening on the day of Pentecost. That is a very narrow understanding. But I do appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.