Predestination is misunderstood...
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I've said this from day one of this thread and through scripture I've demonstrated where this same logic can be seen over and over again.
Not to the poster your posting to, but others, I don't know where the poster your posting to stands.
But as for others, there's clearly hyper grace ruling there reasoning,
And I'm sorry to say there's just no getting through.
It must be in access of a hundred different scriptures pointing to the same reasoning I've posted and none of them have been acknowledged or accepted they've just been completely ignored.
Not just in this thread but many others.
I can't believe it to be honest, the same people are not even willing to refute hyper grace either,
Not to the poster your posting to, but others, I don't know where the poster your posting to stands.
But as for others, there's clearly hyper grace ruling there reasoning,
And I'm sorry to say there's just no getting through.
It must be in access of a hundred different scriptures pointing to the same reasoning I've posted and none of them have been acknowledged or accepted they've just been completely ignored.
Not just in this thread but many others.
I can't believe it to be honest, the same people are not even willing to refute hyper grace either,
I'm amazed because he hasn't told me that I'm misunderstanding what he is saying. He could easily have done so. But you are telling me he means something else when he isn't telling me that.
I'm also a little surprised you bring up the unity of the Spirit when such behavior doesn't promote the unity of the faith.
I'm also a little surprised you bring up the unity of the Spirit when such behavior doesn't promote the unity of the faith.
Grace Cameron. I've said it to you so many times. You don't have to be made alive to see God exists and that He is right, we are wrong and that judgement is not going to go our way. The Father sent Jesus Christ as the solution to that problem and one can believe that to be true from their own volition without being made alive because of grace suppressing the law of sin in the flesh, the slave master that would keep us bound to sin. Once believed, (as this is the very thing God tells you to do), then you are made alive (God keeps His word) and the faith that comes by means of the Gospel (faith comes from the word) being accepted now enables you to begin understanding all things spiritual.
Not saying you are not saved and only using this for example purposes.
The people in the Parable Jesus said cannot hear. They are Jews and believe they are saved. So it shows those who think they're saved can mislead themselves.
You made a comment, I'm amazed because he hasn't told me that I'm misunderstanding what he is saying. But do not consider in your own thinking you're saved but could be doing the same as the people Jesus is speaking about.
Like I said, this is only an example and not claiming anything about your salvation. Just using the words you've applied from your own posts.
The people in the Parable Jesus said cannot hear. They are Jews and believe they are saved. So it shows those who think they're saved can mislead themselves.
You made a comment, I'm amazed because he hasn't told me that I'm misunderstanding what he is saying. But do not consider in your own thinking you're saved but could be doing the same as the people Jesus is speaking about.
Like I said, this is only an example and not claiming anything about your salvation. Just using the words you've applied from your own posts.
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Actually, I have been telling you what I see in his posts, not what I think he is saying. You see him taking credit for his salvation. I see him saying God finds believing in Him as a worthy thing to do. I think the angels agree with him. 
Whose behaviour? Yours?
He hasn't said I'm misunderstanding him either so hardly a claim for either of us to be right is it?
I'm telling you what I saw in his post which, is not what you saw. You could at least have the humility to recognise you may have read it wrong.
I'm happy to be corrected if I have misunderstood. I wonder if you will be?
Whose behaviour? Yours?
He hasn't said I'm misunderstanding him either so hardly a claim for either of us to be right is it?
I'm telling you what I saw in his post which, is not what you saw. You could at least have the humility to recognise you may have read it wrong.
I'm happy to be corrected if I have misunderstood. I wonder if you will be?
You don't have to be alive to recognize God exists or the gospel is true. But you do need to be alive to respond to God. Grace leads to faith. Spiritually dead people are helpless to affect any change. They lack spiritual understanding.
Man can believe independently of God. But the faith necessary for salvation comes only by God through spiritual hearing. Otherwise, there is no need of grace. Man doesn't need God. They can believe without any help from God. Except they can't. They might believe, but their belief not being mixed with faith has no effect on their spiritual condition...Hebrews 4:2.
I don't expect this will change your position nor anything else I share. But thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.
Man can believe independently of God. But the faith necessary for salvation comes only by God through spiritual hearing. Otherwise, there is no need of grace. Man doesn't need God. They can believe without any help from God. Except they can't. They might believe, but their belief not being mixed with faith has no effect on their spiritual condition...Hebrews 4:2.
I don't expect this will change your position nor anything else I share. But thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.
Sawdust said perfectly what I understand it to mean.
I said nothing because I sense you still have to grow more if you were to hear what was said...
Growth happens only if you find a good pastor teacher...
God will provide accordingly to the heart of the one praying for a good pastor teacher.
That explains why many pray for a good pastor with a wrong mindset and end up going nowhere.
The other factor for not responding? You would not like also.
So? With that in mind... I did not respond.
We are all at different points of growth.
Can you accept that?
I said nothing because I sense you still have to grow more if you were to hear what was said...
Growth happens only if you find a good pastor teacher...
God will provide accordingly to the heart of the one praying for a good pastor teacher.
That explains why many pray for a good pastor with a wrong mindset and end up going nowhere.
The other factor for not responding? You would not like also.
So? With that in mind... I did not respond.
We are all at different points of growth.
Can you accept that?
And you actually have. I was in a conversation with a poster. During our discussion, he never said my posts misrepresented his position. Another poster began a discussion with me saying the original poster I was discussing with wasn't saying what I understood him to say. So I thought it odd that the one who I was originally conversing makes no claim that I have mischaracterized his position, but another poster does.
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You just don't hear a word I say. How can a man have no need of God when I have said repeatedly that man needs God's grace to suppress the sin nature so that one is free from it's bondage in order to respond. He needs to be made free first so he can respond from his own will in accordance with his own desire. Some will accept and some will reject. You don't have to have "spiritual hearing" to know right from wrong or good from evil. Romans 1 type responded to God, they were not alive and never will be.
The soul is not created depraved. It becomes that way because it is under a slave master, the law of sin in the flesh. No soul could be saved if the law of sin was in the heart, we all would have to be destroyed and God would have to start over.
You don't get faith to be saved. Having faith is evidence the word of God is working in your soul. In respect to salvation, it is the acceptance of the Gospel as true that produces the faith unto salvation.
It seems to me you cannot distinguish between our believing, a volition response of our own free will and faith, a work of God by means of His word.
Your right about one thing, nothing you say will change my position. I have no intention of exchanging the truth for error.
The soul is not created depraved. It becomes that way because it is under a slave master, the law of sin in the flesh. No soul could be saved if the law of sin was in the heart, we all would have to be destroyed and God would have to start over.
You don't get faith to be saved. Having faith is evidence the word of God is working in your soul. In respect to salvation, it is the acceptance of the Gospel as true that produces the faith unto salvation.
It seems to me you cannot distinguish between our believing, a volition response of our own free will and faith, a work of God by means of His word.
Your right about one thing, nothing you say will change my position. I have no intention of exchanging the truth for error.
I can accept that you have terrible discernment. It's not so much that I don't need to grow continually in grace or be under spiritual guidance, but you just demeaned the most godly man I've ever met. So if you desire to have me take you seriously, you might want to follow the example of Jesus who began to DO and then to TEACH.
The truest measure of a Christian isn't what they know, but how much they are actually like Christ.
The truest measure of a Christian isn't what they know, but how much they are actually like Christ.
Mat_25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat_25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
The only ones who enter the door are the sheep and not the goats because only they are granted the ability to hear the voice of the Shepherd to follow Him.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers,
against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against
the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:12
When someone is antagonistic to accurate teaching? It can lead to demon influence directing his thoughts to get him to feel justified in his wrong thinking. Satan knows very well how to quote Scripture and how to distort it. He is like a politician who lies to get votes with those he knows his lies they will agree with.
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers,
against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against
the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
There comes a time when its best to just leave such a person alone in his error. Leaving him alone can be doing him a favor.
Leaving him be is to keep him from being trained to be sensitive to wrong spirits. Demonic influencers who would gladly take him deeper and deeper into building a defensive wall with misapplied scripture.
So just leave him be.... God will discipline and correct him without any man's help.. That is, if that person truly is seeking to know truth, and is not just a person who seeks to please people who promote the same wrong thinking that he has accepted..
For, many wrong teachings get defended by those who seek the approbation of others who have also accepted the same wrong thinking. In effect.. they wish to please men, and not God.. But, in doing so they claim they are seeking to please God.
God must deal with our flaws and weaknesses.
If He sees fit to do so? He will do so.
grace and peace .............