Pentecostal Church?

[The_Watchers_2017]

[QUOTE="The_Watchers_2017, post: 4892598, member: 316734]

none of us have seen God face to face so we can deduct that Speaking in Tongues is still active today.

That's the continuists interpretation. And you have added or as quite often continuists add in tongues in this passage. Anyhow....


Also, and interestingly, continuists and cessationists would generally agree that when the perfect comes is referring to the parousia. So that point doesn't help with your argument.

To further press the
issue. How would you exegete "in part" and 'perfect'? What do they mean in context. Tongues is something you have added to the text.

Anyhow bed time Watchers... Enjoy the rest of your evening👍

you have to admit, none of us have seen the Jesus who is going to return as King of kings and Lord of lords.

but all Church Fathers point to that Second Coming, which we have never witnessed. one church father made it very clear:

Eusebius:
The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic Gifts should continue in all the Church until the final Coming of Jesus

Gifts, as in all of them, will continue until the Second Coming. that is pretty easy to understand.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

look at these 2 Verses "how" the UTTERANCE of the Holy Spirit gives to Paul the Mystery of the Gospel in Ephesians.


Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, ((as the Spirit)) [gave] them ((utterance)).

^
we know the Holy Spirit gives the Utterance

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that [utterance] ***((may be given unto me)), that I may open my mouth boldly, ((to make known)) the [mystery] of the gospel,

^
Utterance ***((may be given unto me)) = we know Utterance is given by the Holy Spirit, which means Paul Spoke in Tongues
and that Utterance [Speaking in Tongues] gave Paul the knowledge "to know" the Mystery



now, we know ALL things are Completed and Jesus sits at the Right Hand of the Father.



but what about the mystery of our own Ordination?

shouldn't we be able to do what Paul did to get the Utterance to unlock the Mystery of our own Ministry God has chosen for us?

shouldn't Speaking in Tongues, which the Holy Spirit is giving the UTTERANCE, also make known to the Mystery of what God has for me to do specifically for His Kingdom?


i don't read in the Bible where it says "Watchers," this is your specific Ministry.

so how do i know what my Ministry is?

could it be if I follow Acts 2:4 1. Speak in Tongues, the Holy Spirit will give me the Utterance, it should make known to me the Mystery of my Calling and specific Purpose for God!

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

if it works in the Bible that way, and the Church Fathers says the Gifts are still Active until the Second Coming, then i should be able to do what I read and know what God wants me to do specifically for Him.

the Bible cannot lie.

so, if i do what i read in the Bible, then i should know what God wants me to do for Him.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Brill's Encyclopedia of Global Pentecostalism Online

 

[ResidentAlien]

i am speaking of God holding the ANSWER and waiting for your Faith to release it.

If there was any doubt that you believe Word of Faith, now it's gone. What you're saying is God needs our permission before He can do anything in this world. You've been led astray my friend; I pray you'll examine the scriptures more carefully and abandon this madness.

 

[presidente]

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, ((as the Spirit)) [gave] them ((utterance)).

^
we know the Holy Spirit gives the Utterance

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that [utterance] ***((may be given unto me)), that I may open my mouth boldly, ((to make known)) the [mystery] of the gospel,

^
Utterance ***((may be given unto me)) = we know Utterance is given by the Holy Spirit, which means Paul Spoke in Tongues
and that Utterance [Speaking in Tongues] gave Paul the knowledge "to know" the Mystery

If that is what 'utterance' means in that passage, then the translators really missed it when they translated it 'utterance', since utterance has to do with speech. Paul apparently wanted a word from the Spirit. But what good would it have been for him to preach in tongues, unless God arranged that the tongue he spoke happened to be a foreign language his listeners know as in Acts 2. But generally, tongues requires interpretation.

Paul wanted them to pray that he would have the words to say and to say them boldly. Paul told the Corinthians that he spoke in tongues more than them all in I Corinthians 14, so we know he spoke in tongues. But speaking in tongues does not __mean__ utterance. It is a certain type of utterance.

And in Romans 8:26, Paul wrote about groanings which could not be uttered, which strangely some interpret to mean speaking in tongues. But clearly tongues can be uttered.

 

[presidente]

If there was any doubt that you believe Word of Faith, now it's gone. What you're saying is God needs our permission before He can do anything in this world.

Whether God is waiting for someone's faith to release it or not, the quote you quoted does not support your conclusion. If God does wait on some individual for something, that doesn't mean He 'needs our permission.'

When my kids were small, I could choose to wait on my kids to pack a backpack before driving them to school, or I could throw the stuff in myself, pick the kids up and put them in the car. I didn't need their permission. But I could choose to wait.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

If there was any doubt that you believe Word of Faith, now it's gone. What you're saying is God needs our permission before He can do anything in this world. You've been led astray my friend; I pray you'll examine the scriptures more carefully and abandon this madness.

you can label me anyway you like, but Jesus said, if you have Faith the size of a mustard seed you can move mountains. how is that the False Doctrine of WOF by just obeying the words of God?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

If there was any doubt that you believe Word of Faith, now it's gone. What you're saying is God needs our permission before He can do anything in this world. You've been led astray my friend; I pray you'll examine the scriptures more carefully and abandon this madness.

God can heal us or do for us any way He chooses. but there are times He requires us to step out in belief and faith. how can you twist the Holy Word of God like you do? how can you distort His words?

everyone healed in the Bible Jesus said (your FAITH) has healed you. and you are going to distort the words of God because you are deny God?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

If that is what 'utterance' means in that passage, then the translators really missed it when they translated it 'utterance', since utterance has to do with speech. Paul apparently wanted a word from the Spirit. But what good would it have been for him to preach in tongues, unless God arranged that the tongue he spoke happened to be a foreign language his listeners know as in Acts 2. But generally, tongues requires interpretation.

Paul wanted them to pray that he would have the words to say and to say them boldly. Paul told the Corinthians that he spoke in tongues more than them all in I Corinthians 14, so we know he spoke in tongues. But speaking in tongues does not __mean__ utterance. It is a certain type of utterance.

And in Romans 8:26, Paul wrote about groanings which could not be uttered, which strangely some interpret to mean speaking in tongues. But clearly tongues can be uttered.

Utterance is indeed speech. but we know the Holy Spirit gives the Utterance and we speak it.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Whether God is waiting for someone's faith to release it or not, the quote you quoted does not support your conclusion. If God does wait on some individual for something, that doesn't mean He 'needs our permission.'

When my kids were small, I could choose to wait on my kids to pack a backpack before driving them to school, or I could throw the stuff in myself, pick the kids up and put them in the car. I didn't need their permission. But I could choose to wait.

he has no idea because he even refuses to believe the Church Fathers who claim the Gifts are active until we meet God face to face!

better to shake the dust off our feet and walk away from this person rather than cast pearls before swine.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

also, when i suggested for him to follow 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

which we know the Holy Spirit gives the UTTERANCE Acts 2:4..........as the Spirit gave them utterance.
+
the Church Fathers tells us the Gifts are ACTIVE until Jesus Returns.

means his suggestion to me that i am doing a MAGIC TRICK is calling the Holy Spirit a Magic Trick?

i don't want to go on record here but Magic = Satan.

so is he saying the Holy Spirit WHO is giving me Utterance to Speak in Tongues is actually Satan?