Our new relationship to the law.
- Thread starter justbyfaith
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What you need to understand is that I know my Bible well;
So, if you are going to try and pass something off to me that is not entirely biblical, I am going to bring to bear on your doctrine the verses that show that.
It has taken time for me to formulate my doctrine.
I also read through all of the epistles once per week, through the gospels, Acts, and Revelation, once per month, and through the rest of the Bible at a slower rate.
So, I am constantly reading what the scriptures teach in their immediate as well as in their topical contexts.
So, don't give up hope. If you say something that is biblical in its proper context it will eventually bear fruit; because I will see what you are saying as I read those verses in their context on my own time.
However, I normally don't change my point of view in a moment of time.
It will take my reading your doctrine in the scriptures for myself in order for me to cross over into your point of view.
So, if you are going to try and pass something off to me that is not entirely biblical, I am going to bring to bear on your doctrine the verses that show that.
It has taken time for me to formulate my doctrine.
I also read through all of the epistles once per week, through the gospels, Acts, and Revelation, once per month, and through the rest of the Bible at a slower rate.
So, I am constantly reading what the scriptures teach in their immediate as well as in their topical contexts.
So, don't give up hope. If you say something that is biblical in its proper context it will eventually bear fruit; because I will see what you are saying as I read those verses in their context on my own time.
However, I normally don't change my point of view in a moment of time.
It will take my reading your doctrine in the scriptures for myself in order for me to cross over into your point of view.
The Jewish law, taught us to think about the Torah as a book of laws and rituals. ...the Torah is not a book of laws, but a narrative. It’s a story, written in one book – the book of “Moses”. Later on, the book was divided into five different books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The laws and commandments take up only a small part of the Torah. This isn’t just our own understanding, it’s also an academic understanding: ( From One for Israel teaching)
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...and you should carry the name of ...self righteous.
Why not tell us what standard you apply for yourself as a gauge of righteousness, since you consider yourself above God's law?
Now watch folks....the answer...stay tuned.
Why not tell us what standard you apply for yourself as a gauge of righteousness, since you consider yourself above God's law?
Now watch folks....the answer...stay tuned.
re: post #509 (https://christianchat.com/threads/our-new-relationship-to-the-law.201671/post-4683888).
A part of the cure is that the law is written on the hearts and in the minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
A part of the cure is that the law is written on the hearts and in the minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
justbyfaith sound good but where are they?You say this only? because is it written in the book!,,but where we are from it must also be true.you are not of yet in love with god therefore you have yet to receive the new heart.
https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-...he-torah-from-a-messianic-jewish-perspective/
Cut from above "not reinventing the wheel" Give credit to above website
UNDERSTANDING THE CONTEXT
The children of Israel were most definitely not an innocent people – rather these commandments were given to a people who had been slaves, a people who went through oppression and physical and mental abuse, a people lacking in education, influenced greatly by pagan, barbaric, and twisted cultures – cultures which were mostly extremely wicked and cruel. That’s why the children of Israel had extremely low morals and principles. You could almost say that they were a bunch of hooligans. Also, their way of thinking and their way of interacting with their surroundings was morally speaking like that of a small and undisciplined child, and their behavior and the way they treated one another was influenced accordingly. People such as these must indeed learn basic things – that murder is not a good thing, that you’re not supposed to have sexual intercourse with your mother, and not with your goat or sheep either, and when your mother and father ask you to do something that you really don’t want to do you don’t beat them up because they’re old and weak – rather you respect them and their request.
On the one hand, when you’re dealing with merciless barbarians, you need to handle them with a strong hand, and that’s why you find a lot of threats about death penalties. On the other hand, for the first time we’re introduced to God’s grace and compassion, for who has the patience to deal with such people? But God, while putting down firm and clear boundaries, also shows grace and compassion. How? By being merciful!
By the way, despite the fact that the standards in the Torah do not represent God’s ultimate standards, not one of us is able to uphold them perfectly, which shows us that we are incapable to save ourselves. We need someone to come and deliver us, a divine Messiah. There’s a direct correlation between “knowledge” and “morality”. When we “know” God, in other words when we know the character and the will of God, our moral principles and ethical standards go up accordingly. The Torah and its laws were only a first step, a first step out of a moral slough and towards godly morals....
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JESUS CAME TO FULFIL THE MESSIANIC HOPE OF THE TORAH AND THE PROPHETS
In other words, the entire Old Testament, from the very beginning of the Torah to the very end of the Prophets, points to our need of the Messiah. Jesus did not come to abolish the Torah. In other words, Jesus didn’t come to make up a new story, but to fulfill the original story because, after all, the Torah’s prophecies are about him:
...
In conclusion, while the Torah is God’s word in every sense, we need to remember that we are no longer under the authority of the commandments of the Sinai Covenant. In the Sinai Covenant, we served God through the priesthood and through sacrifices in the temple.
The priests were the mediators between God and the people and the commandments of the Sinai Covenant were the laws that showed us how to serve God in the framework of this covenant. In the New Covenant, on the other hand, we are under the Torah of the Messiah. He is our great High Priest, who brought us a Torah with much higher and much more challenging standards in comparison with those of the Sinai Covenant.
Cut from above "not reinventing the wheel" Give credit to above website
UNDERSTANDING THE CONTEXT
The children of Israel were most definitely not an innocent people – rather these commandments were given to a people who had been slaves, a people who went through oppression and physical and mental abuse, a people lacking in education, influenced greatly by pagan, barbaric, and twisted cultures – cultures which were mostly extremely wicked and cruel. That’s why the children of Israel had extremely low morals and principles. You could almost say that they were a bunch of hooligans. Also, their way of thinking and their way of interacting with their surroundings was morally speaking like that of a small and undisciplined child, and their behavior and the way they treated one another was influenced accordingly. People such as these must indeed learn basic things – that murder is not a good thing, that you’re not supposed to have sexual intercourse with your mother, and not with your goat or sheep either, and when your mother and father ask you to do something that you really don’t want to do you don’t beat them up because they’re old and weak – rather you respect them and their request.
On the one hand, when you’re dealing with merciless barbarians, you need to handle them with a strong hand, and that’s why you find a lot of threats about death penalties. On the other hand, for the first time we’re introduced to God’s grace and compassion, for who has the patience to deal with such people? But God, while putting down firm and clear boundaries, also shows grace and compassion. How? By being merciful!
By the way, despite the fact that the standards in the Torah do not represent God’s ultimate standards, not one of us is able to uphold them perfectly, which shows us that we are incapable to save ourselves. We need someone to come and deliver us, a divine Messiah. There’s a direct correlation between “knowledge” and “morality”. When we “know” God, in other words when we know the character and the will of God, our moral principles and ethical standards go up accordingly. The Torah and its laws were only a first step, a first step out of a moral slough and towards godly morals....
...
JESUS CAME TO FULFIL THE MESSIANIC HOPE OF THE TORAH AND THE PROPHETS
In other words, the entire Old Testament, from the very beginning of the Torah to the very end of the Prophets, points to our need of the Messiah. Jesus did not come to abolish the Torah. In other words, Jesus didn’t come to make up a new story, but to fulfill the original story because, after all, the Torah’s prophecies are about him:
...
In conclusion, while the Torah is God’s word in every sense, we need to remember that we are no longer under the authority of the commandments of the Sinai Covenant. In the Sinai Covenant, we served God through the priesthood and through sacrifices in the temple.
The priests were the mediators between God and the people and the commandments of the Sinai Covenant were the laws that showed us how to serve God in the framework of this covenant. In the New Covenant, on the other hand, we are under the Torah of the Messiah. He is our great High Priest, who brought us a Torah with much higher and much more challenging standards in comparison with those of the Sinai Covenant.
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