OSAS= House Built on Sand

DiscipleDave · Aug 19, 2018

Being Submissive/ Faithful/Obedient To Him= Accurate

Just Believe/Accept Him as Saviour= Bad Translation in English

(Tranlations are mine from the Greek.
*All 41 occurrences of the Greek phrase
πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν
are listed below in context)

Part I

Mat 18:6 ὅς δ᾿ ἂν σκανδαλίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων τῶν πιστευόντων εἰς ἐμέ, συμφέρει αὐτῷ ἵνα κρεμασθῇ μύλος ὀνικὸς εἰς τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ καὶ καταποντισθῇ ἐν τῷ πελάγει τῆς θαλάσσης.
Mat 18:6 “Whoever should cause one of these little ones who are continually submissive and faithful to me to sin, it is better for him that a millstone of a donkey be tied around his neck and he be submerged in the depth of the open sea.” (repeated in Mk 9:42)

Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

Joh 2:11 Ταύτην ἐποίησε ἀρχὴν τῶν σημείων ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἐν Κανὰ τῆς Γαλιλαίας καὶ ἐφανέρωσε τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ.
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miraculous signs Yahshua performed in Cana of Galilee and he manifested his splendor. And his disciples were submissive to him.

Joh 2:23 ῾Ως δὲ ἦν τοῖς ῾Ιεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει.
Joh 2:23 While he was in Jerusalem during the festival of the Passover, many people were submissive to his authority as they were seeing the miracles that he did.

Joh 3:14 καὶ καθὼς Μωϋσῆς ὕψωσε τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,
Joh 3:15 ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Joh 3:16 οὕτω γὰρ ἡγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Jn 3:14-16 “And in the same way that Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, it is necessary for the Son of Humanity likewise to be lifted up, in order that everyone who is continually faithful and submissive to him should not be destroyed, but instead, possess age-abiding Life. Because God in this manner was lovingly-devoted to the cosmos: to the point that he gave his one-of-a-kind son, in order that every person who is constantly submissive and obedient to him might not be destroyed, but instead possess age-abiding Life.”

Joh 3:18 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν οὐ κρίνεται, ὁ δὲ μὴ πιστεύων ἤδη κέκριται, ὅτι μὴ πεπίστευκεν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ μονογενοῦς Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ.
Joh 3:18 “The one who is obedient to him is not judged; but the one who is not faithful is already judged, because he has not been submissive to the authority of the unique-in-kind son of God.”

Joh 3:36 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ Υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ᾿ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ Θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾿ αὐτόν.
Joh 3:36 The person who is submissively being obedient to the son possesses age-abiding Life; but the person who is being disobedient to the son will not see Life. Instead, the wrath of God is remaining on top of him.

Joh 4:39 ᾿Εκ δὲ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν τῶν Σαμαριτῶν διὰ τὸν λόγον τῆς γυναικὸς, μαρτυρούσης ὅτι εἶπέ μοι πάντα ὅσα ἐποίησα.
Joh 4:39 Many people of the Samaritans from that city became faithful to him on account of the statement of the woman who testified, “He told me everything that I have done!”

Joh 6:29 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ ἔργον τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἵνα πιστεύσητε εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος.
Joh 6:29 Yahshua answered and told them, “This is the 'work of God': that you should be submissive and faithful to the person that he sent!”

Joh 6:35 εἶπε δὲ αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς· ὁ ἐρχόμενος πρός ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ πεινάσῃ, καὶ ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ οὐ διψήσει πώποτε.
Joh 6:35 Yahshua told them, “I am Life's Bread. The person constantly approaching me will never be hungry, and the person being consistantly submissive and faithful to me will not ever be thirsty.”

Joh 6:40 τοῦτο δὲ ἐστι τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.
Joh 6:40 “This is the intention of the one who sent me: in order that everyone who is constantly looking to the son, and being always submissive and faithful to him, may have age-abiding Life. And I will resurrect him in the Last Day.”

(Part II next)

What this geneation fails miserably to understand is that there is a difference between Getting Saved and Being Saved. Anyone who believes in Jesus, confesses and repents of their sins, can GET SAVED. Consider the parable of the seeds. They all GOT SAVED, they received the Word with joy (SAVED) but because of this or that, they fall away (Do not remain). No person can make you lose your Salvation, but a person can freely choose to walk away from it, that is, fall away from it. They accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior but years later choose to fall away from it. That is why there are several verses which PLAINLY and CLEARLY teach that a persons name once written in the Book of Life can be blotted out of the Book of Life. Hence once being in the Book of Life, but for this or that reason are removed from the Book of Life. Those who teach OSAS are decieved and do not know nor understand Scriptures, they believe a lie so blindly that they do not see or understand any verse in Scriptures that reveals their blindness. OSAS is a lie from the pits of Hell to give people a false security that no matter what sins they choose to live in, they are still SAVED. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth by this generation.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Ralph- · Aug 19, 2018

Slayer said:

I don't think you understand how ridiculous is the suggestion that the God "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4) then purposely doesn't reach out and save some and bring them to the truth even though they would have been saved if he would have just reached out to save them.

See, the gospel is already gracious and undeserved and glorious without adding in this Calvinist crap that says some are lost simply because God chose to not save them even though they would have accepted the gospel and have been saved if he'd just reached out to them. Adding that ridiculous twist doesn't make an already glorious gospel now glorious. The gospel is gracious and glorious in that no man can accept the gospel through faith and be saved except that God in his mercy and grace first extends the opportunity and the power to be saved to them.

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES · Aug 19, 2018

Wouldn't the concept so often labeled OSAS relate to what is described as DR or, "Decisional Regeneration"?
Putting the act of entering into the Father's grace in the dominion of the human will and psyche? Rather than as what the word describes as the process of regeneration by God's power?
Your kind thoughts are most welcome.

Ralph- · Aug 19, 2018

Slayer said:

I do in fact take God at his Word:

" 1First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. "-1 Timothy 2:1-5

The word plainly says we are to pray for all men and that God wants all men to be saved and that Jesus is the ransom for all men to be saved. But you say he does not want all men saved and that Jesus is only the ransom for some men and keeps some from being saved who would otherwise turn to him and be saved. And that is somehow glorious.

Like I say, I don't want to destroy your faith. I want you to toss this nonsense aside and do what really matters--live for Christ in a changed and holy and godly life and don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that the sum total of being a Christian means having accurate doctrine about curious but meaningless things. The Christian life is about how you live, not about what doctrines you are sure are the right ones.

Ralph- · Aug 19, 2018

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES said:

And this is wrong why?

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES said:

How does the Bible say that one enters into the "process of regeneration by God's power"?

UnderGrace · Aug 19, 2018

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES said:

Decisional regeneration is another derogatory, perjorative term coined by Calvinists and Lordship Salvationist which is a straw man.

Those who follow the simple Gospel of repentance (metanoia, a change of mind and belief upon Christ Jesus for salvation) know that God regenerates not man.

dcontroversal · Aug 19, 2018

UnderGrace said:

Amen............it is all the work of Christ......Bought back by the Heavenly Father through the blood of Christ having been eternally born again of incorruptible seed from above by the Holy Spirit....all God.......He even deals the measure of faith as a gift that is irrevocable......!!!!

UnderGrace · Aug 19, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

One may have the will to leave jail but one does not have the ability to choose to do so,

conversely one may have the will to "walk away"

from the innocent/justified verdict of the judge but they do not have the ability to choose a different verdict.

The will is always constrained by what one is able to choose.

It is wise to know the difference.

The statement about the Book of Life (Rev. 3:5) can be understood when one understands Litotes.

justpassinthrough · Aug 19, 2018

Slayer said:

I was taught slightly differently, our pastor teaches us that there are only two types of human beings. Believers and unbelievers, after I was converted I remained faithful for around a year then I left the Church and went back to life as an unrestrained sinner.

I sunk deep into depravity and after I got my fill of sin, I repented and went back to Church. Then after some time I back slid again and repeated the cycle many times over and over.

Sounds just like me.

JPT

justpassinthrough · Aug 19, 2018

Slayer said:

Ok. Let me make that adjustment.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever Is predestined to be saved should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Ok. Got it fixed now.

Now my Bible is in line with what your Pastor teaches.

JPT

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES · Aug 19, 2018

UnderGrace said:

Precisely. God is at the root of the entire process.
The idea that corresponds to refutation of eternal regeneration is that the human will is the start of the process. One decides based on what they've heard of the good news to accept Christ as Savior. They pray a prayer, they say they have confessed self as sinner and repented. And by these and other actions on their part they are then saved and enter into the Father's grace.
As such they then believe they can be responsible in equal regard of personal choice , decision, to remove themselves from the Father's grace.

UnderGrace · Aug 19, 2018

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES said:

That is not what I said, at least I do not think it is

It is not the human will that starts the process it is faith in Jesus. We are called to believe/accept in Him as our personal saviour.
The acceptance of the gift is a one way process like may other things in life that are accepted and are fait accompli.

One does not have adopt the Calvinist notion of inability to accept to still understand that our salvation is secure in Christ because of who He is.

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES · Aug 19, 2018

UnderGrace said:

That is not what I said, at least I do not think it is

It is not the human will that starts the process it is faith in Jesus. We are called to believe/accept in Him as our personal saviour.
The acceptance of the gift is a one way process like may other things in life that are accepted and are fait accompli.

One does not have adopt the Calvinist notion of inability to accept to still understand that our salvation is secure in Christ because of who He is.

I made no reference whatever to Calvinism.

DudleyDorite · Aug 19, 2018

Slayer said:

That's the kind of thinking most of us find repulsive. Like I said, Calvinist are the only ones I know of who cannot correctly interpret John 3:16. And that is amazing!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

WORLD....KOSMOS

an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars,
'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
the world, the universe
the circle of the earth, the earth
the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)

Would you like me to give you the definition of WHOSOEVER?

Nehemiah6 · Aug 19, 2018

DudleyDorite said:

Yes it is amazing and it is the result of WILFUL BLINDNESS. Whenever a person wilfully distorts Scripture, he or she is unable to comprehend the truths of God.

"The world" in John 3:16,17 is nothing other than all the inhabitants of the earth, and both Strong's and Thayer's confirm this.

DiscipleDave · Aug 19, 2018

UnderGrace said:

Just because someone washes the mud of themselves, does not mean they can't dirty themselves up all over again, returning to the mire.

Just because someone claims to be a New Man in Christ yet continues to do the same deeds of the old man, does not make them a New Man in Christ. We New Man in Christ are instructed to put off the deeds of the old man.

The Blood of Jesus cleanseth those who walk in the light. NOT those who continue to walk in darkness. 1 John 1:7

The verdict of a Judge is ALWAYS for past acts. NEVER for acts that may be committed in the Future.

Scriptures reveals our Past Sins are forgiven, (Rom 3:25) This Generation teaches Past, present, and future ones are too (OSAS)

Just because someone repents of a particular sin, does not mean they are forgiven, they must also cease from doing the very thing they are repenting of, even as Jesus taught us "Go and sin no more"

The Holy Ghost is not given to every person who GETS SAVED, but is given to those who OBEY JESUS CHRIST, namely "Love One Another" (Acts 5:32)

Woe to this wicked and perverse generation living in these lasts days, fit for destruction. They continue to live in sin, all the while proclaiming with their mouths "Jesus is my Lord" Even after Jesus plainly said, why do you call me "Lord" and NOT do what I say? He commands us to "Love One Another".

Those who willingly and knowingly choose to obey satan and commit sin, has chosen who their master is.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? So this verse is PLAIN, if you choose to commit sin, you choose who you serve. PERIOD!!! Woe to this wicked generation who chooses to obey satan on a daily basis, and still claim that Jesus is their Master and Lord. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth by those who profess Jesus as Lord, but willingly choose to obey His enemy, and that on a daily basis. Woe to those indeed.

Scriptures are PLAIN and they are CLEAR, Eternal Salvation is given to those who OBEY JESUS CHRIST.

Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

And what does He Command us Christians to do? Love One Another. Those who have LOVE living inside them, will be overflowing with Love for others, and they will be full of Good Works (Not to get or be Saved, but because they ARE SAVED). These are very few. Many claim to have Jesus living in them, but fail to love others, and most have no Good Works at all.

We are all here on this planet to be tested. Those who Love One Another are accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who fail to Love One Another are rejected.

God is Love. Those who fail to Love, fail God. sigh... .. . . much weeping and gnashing of teeth. But it is not like i have not tried to warn this generation, and when the wrath of God comes upon all those who continue to practice iniquity, you will not be able to plead ignorance. How be it you will plead "God, Why is this happening to me?" behold i have told you the TRUTH. Those who continue to live in sins deny Jesus Christ the opportunity to help them cease from those sins. Is it not written to get rid of the sin that so easily besets us? Yet this generation continues to keep that sin and does not cease from it, all the while thinking they are Heaven bound, decieved by the false doctrine of OSAS, Something Scriptures does NOT teach.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

UnderGrace · Aug 19, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

So you liken God to having the same limitations of man, those of time and space?

I wish you the very best remembering and being pentinent for each an every sin as you move through time in this life, forgetting just one is enough to keep you out of the heavenly gates.

I also wish you the best on your journey towards "Perfect Obedience" surely God cannot accept anything less after the works of Christ Jesus.

You preach a doctrine of works that much is obvious.

UnderGrace · Aug 19, 2018

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES said:

Well it came from somewhere, the Gospel is a call for "metanoia" and a call to believe.

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES · Aug 19, 2018

UnderGrace said:

The first I've heard of it was your post.
Metanoia means conversion.
And it is a human act of will to believe something.

UnderGrace · Aug 19, 2018

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES said:

Yes tis true ....when one looks at the etymology and the root words in the Greek
it is made up of two words: meta & nous. Meta means "after" or "change", and nous is the Greek word for "mind". The word means "after-mind" and signifies a change of mind: thinking one way, but then afterwards thinking another.

OSAS= House Built on Sand

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