Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[FollowingtheWay]

Yes, but that only address the what, not the how. It is saying faith has to be present in someone, not of how it was acquired.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

looking at logical order. The command to “repent” consistently comes before “believing.”

““The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1‬:‭15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“They went out and preached that people should repent.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭6‬:‭12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[rogerg]

Show Yahshua is the foundation and His words are very important





I must have missed it, I dont recall you asking it,

I believe this to be true:

Hebrews 13:20 “And the Mighty One of peace who brought up our Master יהושע from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.”


and I posted this passage to you before and many times here

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Do you believe this to be true?

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Here I'm replying to you whole post. This post doesn't answer my question.
I asked and you didn't answer. Simple yes or no will suffice, no elaboration needed. Do
you believe that Christ alone and by Himself is the Saviour - the one who saves?

 

[rogerg]

looking at logical order. The command to “repent” consistently comes before “believing.”

My reply explains that it is God alone who give true repentance and true belief. True repentance is not of man's volition but is by God.
Here, this verse expounds upon that. It tells us that our faith was imputed from Christ's faith. Do you see the "by the faith OF Christ"
that "we have believed IN Christ"? It means that the faith is of Christ, and the faith of those saved was imputed to them by Christ.
This verse demonstrates the "how" of acquiring faith.
Read the verse closely because it can be a little hard to decipher.


[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[rogerg]

Ephesians 1:13-14

The "hearing" is spiritual hearing not human hearing. Spiritual hearing only comes from being born again which
occurs from salvation as does belief, not before.

[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

 

[rogerg]

Clearly there is disagreement about it and intelligent people/ theologians argue from both ways meaning there is mystery there and interpretations differ as a result.
Or perhaps you are insisting this so much because you are the one person who has it 100% right trying to school everyone on this correcting doctrine going back 2000 years? Yours is the interpretation everyone should subscribe to? 🤔

I should have included this verse earlier. It tells us that the doctrine of salvation is simple and direct, and that it begins with, and ends with, Christ as the Saviour.

[2Co 11:3 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

I asked and you didn't answer. Simple yes or no will suffice, no elaboration needed. Do
you believe that Christ alone and by Himself is the Saviour - the one who saves?

I dont need to answer things by your definitions, you have already shown yourself to be lacking in Scritual understanding when you say no faith is needded.

YHWH sent Yahshua, therefore YHWH is the Supreme Savior, and you know it's real funny, because the name Yahshua LITERALLY means YHWH's Salvation. Yahshua is the spotess Lamb of YHWH sent and offered Himself up on my and all humans behalf so we could have an opportunity for mercy, unmerited mercy.

Luke 22:42-43,saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him."

YHWH is Supreme Savior, Yahshua (YHWH's Salvation) is the spotless Lamb, the physical Savior.

You still have not anwser my question, yet I have anwsered your multiple times....

Do you believe this to be true?

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

 

[SpeakTruth101]

John 10:17-18,“Because of this the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life, in order to receive it again. “No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to receive it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

 

[FollowingtheWay]

I should have included this verse earlier. It tells us that the doctrine of salvation is simple and direct, and that it begins with, and ends with, Christ as the Saviour.

[2Co 11:3 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

it is simple just depends on your interpretation of that simplicity. we use scripture to better understand scripture. Harmonizing the scriptures to find the correct interpretation and it’s often deeper truths. We never read one verse in isolation of the verses before and after and always keeping the larger context of the chapter in mind . As Gods word will not contradict itself we have to find harmony via Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth to give us correct interpretation of things that may seem to contradict each other. We know that Satan uses scripture against us which is why We were given the gift of discernment and we should use it being aware that we bring a bias to our interpretation of scripture when we read. My lense for instance when I read about the disciples traveling my mind has a bias of visualizing travel at 65mph when in reality it was at best 3mph on foot, open toe sandals. That slows everything down and puts the pace of the gospels in perspective. But I brought a bias from my 1st world privileged 21st century life into the gospel and barely caught it.

 

[Magenta]

The "hearing" is spiritual hearing not human hearing. Spiritual hearing only comes from being born again which
occurs from salvation as does belief, not before.

[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

Romans 10:13-15

 

[Rockson]

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us."

Sounds correct. Acts 4 talks about those who were devoted to the doctrines of the Apostles. Leaves open the possibility some won't necessarily stay devoted.

 

[brightfame52]

I have never said anything different, I simply said I want to do what He says because He offered Himself on my behalf. It almost like when anyone says obedience is a good thing they are assumed to be "justified by works" No obedience to the Creator of all that is remains a good thing, no matter if one is near perfect or barely hanging on I think a it's a good intention of the heart.

Again, all believers in Christ have been given a new heart that desires to please God, however, we believers understand that our acceptance with God and our righteousness before Him is strictly by the Imputed Righteousness of Christ . Its His Suretyship obedience that constitutes His People righteous Rom 5:19 before God, not their own, even when coming from a new heart. Heres the hope of a True Christian friend, Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Isa 54:17

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Thats the righteousness faith looks to and lives by,

That Righteousness is perfect satisfaction to Gods Law and Justice,

Isa 42:21

21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Your conversation focuses on the persons obedience, it seems to have the preeminence in your conversation, and not Christs obedience and imputed righteousness,

And its His Righteousness that gives us security and peace forever, its an everlasting righteousness Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[brightfame52]

@SpeakTruth101

Where is your Scripture showing people with no faith are saved?

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

People who Christ died for were legally saved, reconciled to God while enemies and unbelievers. Do you doubt a reconciled to God person is saved ?

 

[brightfame52]

Nobody calls out to YHWH, prays, asks for mercy or accepts Yahshua without at least a shred of faith.

You forumula of no faith, would mean that one does not even have to believe in Yahshua to be saved.

Do you realize a person has no faith until they have been regenerated by the Spirit ? Faith tht pleases God is a Sanctification by the Spirit blessing when one is saved Spiritually 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

No sanctification of the Spirit, no faith or belief of the Truth.

Now if you talking about the faith of a unregenerate person, then thats the flesh, it doesnt please God, and it is required by the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

If thats the faith you speak of, you are under the Law and by the deeds of the Law no one will be Justified before God.

 

[Zadiliel]

There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21—"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10—"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1—"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13—"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26—"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.

Screw it I do not CARE.

What did Jesus Say When He saved ALL OF us?

WHAT DID JESUS SAY?

WDJS
WwJD?
a Couple other

 

[brightfame52]

Our faith is not a prerequisite to salvation. If we should think that we have provided faith of ourselves, then we haven't.

Correct, faith is provided with salvation, it accompanies salvation Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Faith is part of the workmanship of God, not of ourselves !

 

[Zadiliel]

Jesus LAST WORDS WERE?

Forgive them Father

 

[Zadiliel]

What Could a HUMAN Sacrifice Say Except?

Forgive them Father

That is the Sacrifice?

 

[Zadiliel]

It turns GOD that is Real does not like Human or Animal Sacrifice.

 

[Zadiliel]

Jesus
JESUS
Your Human Sacrifice?
Not Just Human A SON Of GOD??

ANd His BLOOD SHED
saves you?