Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Dan, you know I love you buddy, but there are a whole lot of parentheses, interjecting thoughts, that aren’t there in Scripture:
What is the AMPC version? Looks dangerous.
Here is that post:
“God draws us and enables us (John 6:44,65) so in that sense, I would say that faith is a gift, yet we still must exercise faith in Christ in order to be saved. Ultimately, salvation is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8 (AMPC) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.”
The passage clearly says that Faith is a gift of God, and of course it MUST be.
Otherwise, where does our Faith come from? I know it is activated by the hearing of the Word, but that doesn’t explain why one person believes upon hearing and another doesn’t. God gifting us our Faith does.
What is the AMPC version? Looks dangerous.
Here is that post:
“God draws us and enables us (John 6:44,65) so in that sense, I would say that faith is a gift, yet we still must exercise faith in Christ in order to be saved. Ultimately, salvation is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8 (AMPC) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.”
The passage clearly says that Faith is a gift of God, and of course it MUST be.
Otherwise, where does our Faith come from? I know it is activated by the hearing of the Word, but that doesn’t explain why one person believes upon hearing and another doesn’t. God gifting us our Faith does.
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It is Jesus WHO absolutely saves. I will never understand the logic of someone who says that by reaching out and accepting/receiving the free gift of eternal life, we did something that results in salvation no longer being based on what Christ did, but a work that we did. 
At Christmas time, when someone hands us a free gift, do we claim that we worked for the gift and somehow earned it because we reached out and accepted the gift? Absolutely not.
At Christmas time, when someone hands us a free gift, do we claim that we worked for the gift and somehow earned it because we reached out and accepted the gift? Absolutely not.
Yes fully aware you don't understand it as you've stated such numerous times on here Dan.
What we've presented is truth, one lacking understanding of it doesn't negate this fact. The surprising thing is how John 1:13 dogmatically refutes your system and others of choosing by will, but you cannot, according to your words "understand it." And it's not "logic" it's Scripture. How you reject that very plain teaching and keep saying "choose" as a basis is beyond me.
I don't see any Scripture about reaching out and accepting a gift. That is more logic and an analogy created by man via Finneys decisional regeneration error. Robert Sandeman championed this error as well.
Ephesians 1:19 shows we came to believe by the power God used to raise Christ, 2 Peter 2:1 says we obtained faith. No text says we were offered a chance to vote, no, God declares we were granted belief, not a chance to believe: belief itself. At that point we were sealed by the Spirit, but the belief was Gods gift, not an exercise of choosing.
Furthermore God did not look through time to see who would believe, then because of that decide to save them because they did it. Some on here teach and believe that, but it isn't grace, it's merit.
I've never heard the AMPC version being refereed to as dangerous. Romans 6:23 clearly states that "the gift of God is eternal life" through Jesus Christ our Lord. That agrees with Ephesians 2:8 in the AMPC. The problem with saying that faith "is" the gift of God (and not salvation) in Ephesians 2:8 is that would mean men no longer bear the responsibility to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, because it was completely gifted to us. Only the fortunate few end up receiving the gift and everyone else is just out of luck. That brings us back to fatalistic determination with God.
After A.T. Robertson remarked "Grace" is God's part, "faith" ours on Ephesians 2:8, he also went on to say - And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tauth, and so refers not to pisti (feminine) or to cari (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex umwn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dwron) and not the result of our work.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/ephesians/ephesians-2-8.html
After A.T. Robertson remarked "Grace" is God's part, "faith" ours on Ephesians 2:8, he also went on to say - And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tauth, and so refers not to pisti (feminine) or to cari (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex umwn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dwron) and not the result of our work.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/ephesians/ephesians-2-8.html
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Saying god just gave it to you is a weak explanatuon while it is possible. How does that reflect on Gods character in my view. It makes him a respect of persons
Now I think scripture gives us a better reason
1 they loved their sin
2 they wanted to be their own God and not follow what they consider to be a dictator (satans lie is that god wants us all to do his will and be his puppet)
3. They are proud and refuse to believe that they are so sinful god will
Punish them because they do
Not commit these grace sins (murder, rape etc)
4 they believe god (even demons believe) but their pride refuses to allow them to see that God paid it all because they could not pay anything. They ask for gods live but demand they also have to help Pay their own debt So their faith is in religion not christ
I am sure there are Many other reasons More palatable than they Gid just chose
Me Over My neighbor is he had no choice he will Never believe
Now I think scripture gives us a better reason
1 they loved their sin
2 they wanted to be their own God and not follow what they consider to be a dictator (satans lie is that god wants us all to do his will and be his puppet)
3. They are proud and refuse to believe that they are so sinful god will
Punish them because they do
Not commit these grace sins (murder, rape etc)
4 they believe god (even demons believe) but their pride refuses to allow them to see that God paid it all because they could not pay anything. They ask for gods live but demand they also have to help Pay their own debt So their faith is in religion not christ
I am sure there are Many other reasons More palatable than they Gid just chose
Me Over My neighbor is he had no choice he will Never believe
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I could not say no when I received the Holy Spirit.......but I have said no in a certain area of my life to him..it has taken 28 yrs for him to work in and through me....to get me to the place of submitting being obedient to his will in that certain..area not once has he ever forced me.....
He showed me it again..this time I am in full agreement...because I know in my heart now that I can trust him..with this area of my life....it is about to come to pass.x
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It is Jesus WHO absolutely saves. I will never understand the logic of someone who says that by reaching out and accepting/receiving the free gift of eternal life, we did something that results in salvation no longer being based on what Christ did, but a work that we did. At Christmas time, when someone hands us a free gift, do we claim that we worked for the gift and somehow earned it because we reached out and accepted the gift? Absolutely not.
At Christmas time, when someone hands us a free gift, do we claim that we worked for the gift and somehow earned it because we reached out and accepted the gift? Absolutely not.
