Not By Works

[Magenta]

That is VERY STRANGE INDEED.

It's from the first chapter of Ezekiel, apparently

4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved. 10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces.

 

[jackrosie]

Bible Verses about being CHOSEN.

John6:4
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;and I will raise him up on the last day.

Ephesians 1:4

Just as he chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,that we would be Holy and blameless before Him in Love.
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself,according to the kind intention of his will.



AMEN!

 

[EleventhHour]

AMEN TO THIS ONE RIGHT HERE

Thank you and Amen........ God's word stands clear!!

Changed it back to a ribbon ....haha

 

[jackrosie]

Another assumption......I am not arguing with you....believe what you like.

God knows my heart and that is all I need to know.

I don’t have to justify anything to you....have a good day.

Hey sis, you do understand that the one you are supporting in this thread absolutely teaches that God doomed most men to hell and that Jesus only loves the saved, and he did not die for the world etc......right? He is peddling a doctrine formulated in the 1500's by an ex-Catholic......they sound good, they sound biblical and smooth, but they are not teaching the truth.[/QUOTE]



Hey dc.

It’s not about his teaching......it’s about God’s word and truth.

If he has scripture to back it up...then that is the word of God.

The same as the chosen...I have posted scripture to back it up.

Trust me no one can lead me astray....I stand firm in my trust in the Holy Spirit....if I go off track....make no doubt about it the Lord always leads me back in his timing.

Faith is a big part of my life...I trust the Lord and sincerely wait on him.

You can’t rush God.....His plan for my life is perfect as is HE!.x

 

[Lafftur]

Dr. White is incorrect or incomplete. Grace is not unmerited favor but neither is it merited. There is something besides earning and completely free. This is the mistake he is making. Grace in the dealings of God with men is always granted for reasons. These reasons are not earning but neither is the grace of God given arbitrarily.

Noah found favor (grace) with God because he was a "preacher of rightesouness" in his Generation. This did not EARN favor or grace but neither was the man simply lucky. So the statment that grace needs to be free or it is not grace is very misleading as though a man just gets lucky.

In more than one place it says "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. The humble are not lucky but neither is being humble or humbling yourself earning His favor. Nevertheless if a man is proud and responds in pride not only will God NOT grant him/her grace but God opposes them. Not a good place to be.

Now as to the idea that because God did something for some and let the others go to hell for no reason and that is still just because his idea of justice is different than ours, I have a comparison.

Is justice an entirely different matter with God? This seems to be an argument for the Calvinist position. It runs something like this if it were to occur in human father son relationships. This is what they think God says to us regarding his justice but let’s put it into a human family for clarity. The Scene is a discussion or lecture as it were, between a 9 year old boy and his father.

“So you, in you puny nine year old mind think that I am unjust because I belted you when you did the same thing your brother did and I did not belt him. Who are you to understand my justice!!!!?????? (We can see him getting red in the face.) Just because he does the same thing you do and is never punished does not mean I am unjust at all. I am always just. Always!! What you know of justice is nothing!! Just because I punished you for the same infraction and not him does not make me unjust. It means he has found grace and mercy in my sight, something neither of you deserved! So do not dare to think that you understand justice better than I do. You are not even 10 years old and I am vastly older than you. Whatever I do is just and when one of you finds mercy in my sight, well, that is more than just. What you both deserve is punishment, but I graciously extend unmerited mercy to him. It is completely just because both of you deserve punishment. Its just that He found grace and you didn’t. That does not make me unjust!!!!”

If the people who propose this were to experience this on the Job I am very sure they would not say their Boss is just for arbitrarily rewarding one and punishing them for no perceivable reason. They would cry, "unjust" very loudly.

DorothyMae - God’s AUTHORITY is based on LOVE, not selfish pride. God’s AUTHORITY CAN BE TRUSTED. You are safe in His Love.

To cry, “unjustly” very loudly would only mean I do not know God’s Love for me.......

Pride is after self-preservation which can only be achieved if it has all control and authority - it cannot accept that it is powerless and weak compared to God....it seeks some way to control God.....WORKS is it’s only chance!!!

Pride actually believes it can manipulate God to save it because of good works.....yet, pride will NOT be given mercy or grace....doesn’t matter how many “good works” it does, ONLY when God sees humility and love for the truth will grace and mercy be granted.

It’s the Father’s good pleasure to save you, just let Him save you....trust in His Love for you in the Gift of His Son - The Author and Finisher of your Salvation.

 

[jackrosie]

Many are tossed about with every wind of doctrine when their foundation is shakey due to a lack of growth.....Calvinism is a cult indeed!

You say Calvinism is a cult indeed.

I question if OSAS is a cult,because I see OSAS nowhere in scripture.

So not sure where the OSAS came from...because it certainly is nowhere to be found in scripture.

Please show me where Once Saved Always Saved is scriptural?

Not your interpretation of the scripture that you believe supports the OSAS doctrine.

The actual words.....Once Saved Always Saved.....I cannot find it anywhere.

 

[Lafftur]

You say Calvinism is a cult indeed.

I question if OSAS is a cult,because I see OSAS nowhere in scripture.

So not sure where the OSAS came from...because it certainly is nowhere to be found in scripture.

Please show me where Once Saved Always Saved is scriptural?

Not your interpretation of the scripture that you believe supports the OSAS doctrine.

The actual words.....Once Saved Always Saved.....I cannot find it anywhere.

You have been BORN AGAIN - to be “Lost and Unsaved” is your OLD NATURE. You will NEVER be unsaved again.

It’s time to only listen to the Holy Spirit and STOP being tossed to and fro with every whim of doctrine.

The Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are saved......rest.

It’s time to start growing in the knowledge and understanding of the scriptures....get alone with God and His Word.....read it, constantly ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and give you understanding.....there will be a test...

There’s always a TEST after we read the scriptures because we’re doers of the Word, not hearers only...BUT, our salvation is not in jeopardy of being lost, we are growing and maturing - learning how to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

 

[jackrosie]

You have been BORN AGAIN - to be “Lost and Unsaved” is your OLD NATURE. You will NEVER be unsaved again.

It’s time to only listen to the Holy Spirit and STOP being tossed to and fro with every whim of doctrine.

The Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are saved......rest.

It’s time to start growing in the knowledge and understanding of the scriptures....get alone with God and His Word.....read it, constantly ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and give you understanding.....there will be a test...

There’s always a TEST after we read the scriptures because we’re doers of the Word, not hearers only...BUT, our salvation is not in jeopardy of being lost, we are growing and maturing - learning how to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

With respect Laff.....I will listen to everyone’s doctrine..that doesn’t mean I take it on board...if I’m being tossed too and fro.....God is allowing it......I walk in Faith....my Father will reveal his truth to me.

I will ask questions and continue to do so.....working out my own salvation...God chose me I did not choose him.

Nowhere in scripture does it say Once Saved Always Saved...nowhere......

God chose me for his own will and purpose..my belief...he has also shown me his will in an area for my life,which is about to come to pass.

 

[Lafftur]

With respect Laff.....I will listen to everyone’s doctrine..that doesn’t mean I take it on board...if I’m being tossed too and fro.....God is allowing it......I walk in Faith....my Father will reveal his truth to me.

I will ask questions and continue to do so.....working out my own salvation...God chose me I did not choose him.

Nowhere in scripture does it say Once Saved Always Saved...nowhere......

God chose me for his own will and purpose..my belief...he has also shown me his will in an area for my life,which is about to come to pass.

No where in the scriptures does it say “salvation lost” or “lose salvation.”

OSAS is just a simple terminology used by theologians.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God is the god of love, so that was also his heart when He gave us the Torah. We have to understand it.

Yep

he gave us the torah to expose our sin and lead us to Christ

unless you mean his scripture, in which case he gave us that to get us to know him

 

[jackrosie]

No where in the scriptures does it say “salvation lost” or “lose salvation.”

OSAS is just a simple terminology used by theologians.

Now you show me where I said....”salvation “lost”.....lose salvation....show me where I said that?

I asked the question..nowhere in the bible is Once Saved Aways Saved........am I right or am I wrong.

You have avoided my question..please answer it....thank you.


Is Once Saved Always Saved written in the bible.....,Yes or No?

 

[jackrosie]

I am also not talking of long ago posts...I am talking about the posts that were addressed to Laff an dc.this morning........I have asked a question..would like it answered by them.

Then I can move on to the next question.....otherwise it gets far to confusing and God is not a God of confusion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey dc.

It’s not about his teaching......it’s about God’s word and truth.

If he has scripture to back it up...then that is the word of God.

The same as the chosen...I have posted scripture to back it up.

Trust me no one can lead me astray....I stand firm in my trust in the Holy Spirit....if I go off track....make no doubt about it the Lord always leads me back in his timing.

Faith is a big part of my life...I trust the Lord and sincerely wait on him.

You can’t rush God.....His plan for my life is perfect as is HE!.x

hey sis, a lot of people can pull out scripture that on the surface seems to support their views. It does not mean it does

all of us believe were were chosen, so your scripture would support all of us. But that does not mean it supports the fatalistic view of predestination,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

DorothyMae - God’s AUTHORITY is based on LOVE, not selfish pride. God’s AUTHORITY CAN BE TRUSTED. You are safe in His Love.

To cry, “unjustly” very loudly would only mean I do not know God’s Love for me.......

Pride is after self-preservation which can only be achieved if it has all control and authority - it cannot accept that it is powerless and weak compared to God....it seeks some way to control God.....WORKS is it’s only chance!!!

Pride actually believes it can manipulate God to save it because of good works.....yet, pride will NOT be given mercy or grace....doesn’t matter how many “good works” it does, ONLY when God sees humility and love for the truth will grace and mercy be granted.

It’s the Father’s good pleasure to save you, just let Him save you....trust in His Love for you in the Gift of His Son - The Author and Finisher of your Salvation.

She is still here?

 

[jackrosie]

hey sis, a lot of people can pull out scripture that on the surface seems to support their views. It does not mean it does

all of us believe were were chosen, so your scripture would support all of us. But that does not mean it supports the fatalistic view of predestination,

Hey bro....the scripture I posted speaks for itself......God chose us....there is more scripture besides that..that Ican post

I did not choose God he chose me...standing firm on that scripture and my belief in it....so unable to discuss that any further.....

You believe what you believe bro....I do the same..you can’t be budged on your belief neither can I.x

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You say Calvinism is a cult indeed.

I question if OSAS is a cult,because I see OSAS nowhere in scripture.

So not sure where the OSAS came from...because it certainly is nowhere to be found in scripture.

Please show me where Once Saved Always Saved is scriptural?

Not your interpretation of the scripture that you believe supports the OSAS doctrine.

The actual words.....Once Saved Always Saved.....I cannot find it anywhere.

I hear it very little until I Got in here, the term as I heard it in here, is mostly used by anti calvinists or arminians, to fight against the calvinist believe that once a person is saved, they will always be saved, or as they say it in their tulip, perseverance of the saints.

most of us here prefer to use the biblical term, such as we HAVE eternal life, we have the seal of the spirit as a guarantee. That we are eternally secure in Christ, etc etc. But sadly OSAS keeps comming up from the NOSAS or works cloud, so we have to continue to live with it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

With respect Laff.....I will listen to everyone’s doctrine..that doesn’t mean I take it on board...if I’m being tossed too and fro.....God is allowing it......I walk in Faith....my Father will reveal his truth to me.

I will ask questions and continue to do so.....working out my own salvation...God chose me I did not choose him.

Nowhere in scripture does it say Once Saved Always Saved...nowhere......

God chose me for his own will and purpose..my belief...he has also shown me his will in an area for my life,which is about to come to pass.

Think about what your saying sister

1. your saying God chose you, we agree, but you had a decision to make, you could have said no, god did not force you to say yes
2. if you do not believe once you are saved you are always saved, people will interpret you as believing salvation can be lost, and I am sure you do not believe this

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey bro....the scripture I posted speaks for itself......God chose us....there is more scripture besides that..that Ican post

I did not choose God he chose me...standing firm on that scripture and my belief in it....so unable to discuss that any further.....

You believe what you believe bro....I do the same..you can’t be budged on your belief neither can I.x

You did not listen to what I said

i said we all believe that scripture.

so This post makes no sense

 

[jackrosie]

I hear it very little until I Got in here, the term as I heard it in here, is mostly used by anti calvinists or arminians, to fight against the calvinist believe that once a person is saved, they will always be saved, or as they say it in their tulip, perseverance of the saints.

most of us here prefer to use the biblical term, such as we HAVE eternal life, we have the seal of the spirit as a guarantee. That we are eternally secure in Christ, etc etc. But sadly OSAS keeps comming up from the NOSAS or works cloud, so we have to continue to live with it

Thank you for explaining....so OSAS is not biblical.

Amen to eternal salvation...that is biblical...so why oh why do some on here believe you can lose it?

Where in scripture does it say you can lose eternal salvation?.x

 

[jackrosie]

Think about what your saying sister

1. your saying God chose you, we agree, but you had a decision to make, you could have said no, god did not force you to say yes
2. if you do not believe once you are saved you are always saved, people will interpret you as believing salvation can be lost, and I am sure you do not believe this

No...he didn’t say in scripture that I had a choice..it says he chose me.......I had a choice to follow him...I had no choice in him saving me.....standing firm on that belief..x