Not By Works

John146 · May 25, 2020

Please sir, what is the context here. Is not Jesus telling the disciples of His upcoming death and resurrection? What was their response? “Amen Jesus! We’re behind you. Can’t wait for the resurrection.” 🤦‍♂️

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

EleventhHour · May 25, 2020

John146 said:

Do you really think that the Jewish people did not know about their own Messiah when the Old Testament foretold what He would do?

Everything falters on this notion that the death, burial and resurrection was not in the Old Testament, when it was.

John146 · May 25, 2020

EleventhHour said:

Sure they did, but the cross was hidden. Why didn’t they recognize Jesus as their messiah? They were looking for a deliverer, one who would restore the kingdom of Israel As I posted from Luke 1.

dcontroversal · May 25, 2020

John146 said:

This is a false....

I posted TWO VERSES from LUKE and MARK where PETER clearly identifed who he was and on one occasion JESUS even acknowledged that FLESH and BLOOD had not enlightened PETER to that truth!

azamzimtoti · May 25, 2020

John146 said:

This is one of the problems with the KJV awkward rendition of this verse, Paul was "committed" to spread the gospel to the Gentiles as was Peter committed to spread the gospel to the Jews - it's simple. People with an agenda for years have tried to use this verse to make two gospels in defense of a faulty doctrine.

Gal 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised)

Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles, he didn't send him with a different gospel than Peter.

(Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.)

Occam's razor.

John146 · May 25, 2020

dcontroversal said:

But not the truth of the cross...

Please sir, what is the context here. Is not Jesus telling the disciples of His upcoming death and resurrection? What was their response? “Amen Jesus! We’re behind you. Can’t wait for the resurrection.” 🤦‍♂️

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

azamzimtoti · May 25, 2020

John146 said:

What you are trying to do is make the gospel preached before the DBR different from the gospel after the DBR. As Eleventh of nine pointed out the earlier preaching was part of the larger gospel to be preached after. You are trying to pit one against the other.

(Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God)

(Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.)

This was ONLY the start of the "good news". At this point even though John's preaching was concerning the kingdom being at hand there was no "permanent" forgiveness for sins until after the DBR (see Hebrews in on this)

(Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures)

(Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day)

(Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem)

This wider gospel "beginning at Jerusalem" is the same gospel that was preached by Peter before and after this "mid Acts" "theology" that you've swallowed. It's precisely the same gospel Paul preached.

VCO · May 25, 2020

GandalfTheWhite said:

The part of my BELIEF that explains the FACT that some people will fall away, while others WILL NEVER FALL AWAY, is the Parable of the GATES. On Both Roads are nothing but people who Call themselves Christians, and non Christians are NOT IN THE PICTURE AT ALL.

Matthew 7:13-20 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction,
and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

Notice, every one of these people Consider themselves to be disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. But remember the word disciple does not mean SAVED, it only means FOLLOWER. ALMOST ALL PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE A Christian can Lose his Salvation; are counting all people on both roads, who call themselves disciples of Jesus Christ.

But Jesus Christ, defines what HE MEANT BY THE FEW: 19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. That does not mean that producing Fruit is SALVATION, Gal. 5:22-26. It only means those who HAVE BEEN SAVED, past tense, will produce good fruit, as a natural by-product of that past tense genuine SALVATION; which is a lifestyle characteristic. By the same token, a one time sin, IS NOT BAD FRUIT, but A LIFESTYLE CHARACTERISTIC of DOING that Bad Thing IS. Gal. 5:19-21, which defines what Bad Fruit is.

So JESUS GOES ON EXPLAINING WHAT HE meant in Parable of the Gates:

Matthew 7:21-23 (HCSB)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many {same "many" described in verse 13} will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

That indicates to me, READING IT IN CONTEXT, that the WILL OF THE FATHER is we Produce Good Fruit, after we are SAVED. Then Notice the NARROW GATE is not the professing that HE is LORD, but something that HAS TO HAPPEN IN YOUR HEART, (human spirit). That in verse 23, TOTALLY defines what the NARROW GATE actually means. It is receiving HIM as LORD (MASTER), out of a DEEP, Inner Personal, AGAPE LOVE Relationship, as you willingly Give HIM control of your life.

Broad Road Disciples NEVER had that Relationship with JESUS, and only PROFESSED HE is LORD, and NEVER CONFESSED HIM as a REAL, LOVING, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess {not just profess} with your mouth Jesus as Lord {Master as you lovingly give HIM control}, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes {in your human spirit}, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he
confesses, resulting in salvation.

Guojing · May 25, 2020

John146 said:

Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

They don't want to read this verse literally.

Even if you were to ask them a direct question, "According to this verse, how many gospels are there", they will still insist that there is only ONE gospel.

EleventhHour · May 25, 2020

Guojing said:

One line does not make a doctrine that is foolish.

...and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Gal. 2:9

New King James fixed the wording.

One Gospel.. end of story.

Guojing · May 25, 2020

EleventhHour said:

You cannot see what you are doing there?

Because you want to hold on to that doctrine that there is only ONE gospel throughout, you prefer to ignore what the KJV stated, and search for another translation that supports that doctrine.

azamzimtoti · May 25, 2020

Guojing said:

If you read a newer translation you would see where there is one gospel. Literally it's saying that Peter went to the circumcision and Paul took the very same gospel to uncircumcision.

Any reputable scholar will refute your heresy.

Adam Clarke:

Verse 7
But contrariwise - They were so far from wishing me to alter my plan, or to introduce any thing new in my doctrine to the Gentiles, that they saw plainly that my doctrine was the same as their own, coming immediately from the same source; and therefore gave to me and to Barnabas the right hand of fellowship.

The Gospel of the uncircumcision - They saw, to their utmost satisfaction, that I was as expressly sent by God to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles, as Peter was to preach it to the Jews.

Guojing · May 25, 2020

azamzimtoti said:

If you read a newer translation you would see where there is one gospel. Literally it's saying that Peter went to the circumcision and Paul took the very same gospel to uncircumcision.

Any reputable scholar will refute your heresy.

Adam Clarke:

Verse 7
But contrariwise - They were so far from wishing me to alter my plan, or to introduce any thing new in my doctrine to the Gentiles, that they saw plainly that my doctrine was the same as their own, coming immediately from the same source; and therefore gave to me and to Barnabas the right hand of fellowship.

The Gospel of the uncircumcision - They saw, to their utmost satisfaction, that I was as expressly sent by God to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles, as Peter was to preach it to the Jews.

So the strategy is to ignore the KJV if it says something that is against your covenant theology doctrine right?

John146 · May 25, 2020

azamzimtoti said:

If you read a newer translation you would see where there is one gospel. Literally it's saying that Peter went to the circumcision and Paul took the very same gospel to uncircumcision.

Any reputable scholar will refute your heresy.

Adam Clarke:

Verse 7
But contrariwise - They were so far from wishing me to alter my plan, or to introduce any thing new in my doctrine to the Gentiles, that they saw plainly that my doctrine was the same as their own, coming immediately from the same source; and therefore gave to me and to Barnabas the right hand of fellowship.

The Gospel of the uncircumcision - They saw, to their utmost satisfaction, that I was as expressly sent by God to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles, as Peter was to preach it to the Jews.

Any reputable scholar wouldn’t use a corrupt new version.

EleventhHour · May 25, 2020

Guojing said:

Are you for real?

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/galatians/2-9.htm

azamzimtoti · May 25, 2020

Guojing said:

Adam Clarke used the KJV in his commentary - most of my posts are from the KJV - I understand it very well, I've been using it for 38 years.

And that would be a nope - I have my own theology.

Guojing · May 25, 2020

EleventhHour said:

The verse is actually 7, you should address that first before going into v9

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/galatians/2-7.htm

How many gospels can you see from there, when you read that verse literally?

Guojing · May 25, 2020

azamzimtoti said:

So back to verse 7 of Galatians 2. Read and tell me how many gospels can you see from there, when you read that verse literally?

azamzimtoti · May 25, 2020

(Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter)

Peter preached the same gospel otherwise Paul would have condemned Peter for preaching another gospel.

(Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.)

You and longjohn have Peter preaching another gospel and are falling into the accursed category.

azamzimtoti · May 25, 2020

John146 said:

He's using the KJV, any reputable bible student would know that,

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