Not By Works

[JohnW34]

Why are some fascinated with instantaneous security, when nothing we do changes this reality.
Is it because deep down they doubt its truth or reality in their lives, so need this reassurance through unbelief, rather than testifying as John did

1 John 2:3-4
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Gods answer is take His yoke on you, and follow, and He will build His Kingdom in your heart.

So many say that group over there are fearful always of losing what they have, when what they see and feel is just themselves and their unbelief and lack of truly knowing in their hearts Jesus was raised from the dead for their forgiveness of sins.

Growth in faith and faithfulness, perseverance is the walk.

2 Peter 5-8
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.
For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Chris1975]

Why are some fascinated with instantaneous security, when nothing we do changes this reality.
Is it because deep down they doubt its truth or reality in their lives, so need this reassurance through unbelief, rather than testifying as John did

1 John 2:3-4
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Gods answer is take His yoke on you, and follow, and He will build His Kingdom in your heart.

So many say that group over there are fearful always of losing what they have, when what they see and feel is just themselves and their unbelief and lack of truly knowing in their hearts Jesus was raised from the dead for their forgiveness of sins.

Growth in faith and faithfulness, perseverance is the walk.

2 Peter 5-8
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.
For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is straight forward.

 

[Chris1975]

Actually, the Word does not slice and dice up my comment and I'm surprised to see that what I shared in my comment seemed to go right over your head. I've heard many works-salvationists use Hebrews 5:9 to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's. So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?

Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (Matthew 7:21-23). *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

Actually, the Word does not slice and dice up my comment and I'm surprised to see that what I shared in my comment seemed to go right over your head. I've heard many works-salvationists use Hebrews 5:9 to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's. So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?

Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (Matthew 7:21-23). *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

1) So those who sin (practice it) are unbelievers.
2) Therefore any calls to repentance towards believers who sin should not be seen as works, no?

So why do you and others kick against calls to holiness?

 

[EleventhHour]

Why are some fascinated with instantaneous security, when nothing we do changes this reality.
Is it because deep down they doubt its truth or reality in their lives, so need this reassurance through unbelief, rather than testifying as John did

1 John 2:3-4
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Gods answer is take His yoke on you, and follow, and He will build His Kingdom in your heart.

So many say that group over there are fearful always of losing what they have, when what they see and feel is just themselves and their unbelief and lack of truly knowing in their hearts Jesus was raised from the dead for their forgiveness of sins.

Growth in faith and faithfulness, perseverance is the walk.

2 Peter 5-8
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.
For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You know you would understand scripture much better if you separated the ones pertaining to salvation from those pertaining to discipleship/walking in the Spirit and living as a new creation.

 

[Chris1975]

1) So those who sin (practice it) are unbelievers.
2) Therefore any calls to repentance towards believers who sin should not be seen as works, no?

So why do you and others kick against calls to holiness?

And if a believer in 2 above doesn't repent then they are not saved, correct? Because they are then in the camp of unbelievers....

So then by this deduction, those who practice sin are unbelievers. Therefore those who sin are not saved.

Now for you to come to this conclusion (I have only used what you showed above).

 

[mailmandan]

1) So those who sin (practice it) are unbelievers.
2) Therefore any calls to repentance towards believers who sin should not be seen as works, no?

So why do you and others kick against calls to holiness?

I don’t kick against calls to holiness and 1 John 3:9-10 separates children of God from children of the devil.

 

[Chris1975]

I don’t kick against calls to holiness and 1 John 3:9-10 separates children of God from children of the devil.

And what happens to those who will not repent?

 

[EleventhHour]

And if a believer in 2 above doesn't repent then they are not saved, correct? Because they are then in the camp of unbelievers....

So then by this deduction, those who practice sin are unbelievers. Therefore those who sin are not saved.

Now for you to come to this conclusion (I have only used what you showed above).

You would also understand 1 John better if you realized he was addressing the two natures... the flesh and the Spirit.

 

[Chris1975]

You would also understand 1 John better if you realized he was addressing the two natures... the flesh and the Spirit.

How about you explain it, with specifics.

 

[EleventhHour]

I think JohnW34 is getting stuff right
And what happens to those who will not repent?

Yeah well, wrong the foundation leads to an incoherent doctrine, completely evidenced by all those that preach salvation is not salvation but something else that completely redefines the word "saved."

Scripture clearly states the grace out bounds sin... so your idea that sin can cause one to loose salvation is in error.

 

[EleventhHour]

How about you explain it, with specifics.

Would it matter?
That is a huge investment of my time.

 

[Chris1975]

Yeah well, wrong the foundation leads to an incoherent doctrine, completely evidenced by all those that preach salvation is not salvation but something else that completely redefines the word "saved."

Scripture clearly states the grace out bounds sin... so your idea that sin can cause one to loose salvation is in error.

Do yourself a favour. Look this highlighted verse up in the bible. Then look at the very next verse.

 

[Chris1975]

Would it matter?
That is a huge investment of my time.

Its worth it.

 

[EleventhHour]

Do yourself a favour. Look this highlighted verse up in the bible. Then look at the very next verse.

I already explained the next verse.

 

[mailmandan]

And what happens to those who will not repent?

Children of God repent, unlike children of the devil.

 

[Chris1975]

Children of God repent, unlike children of the devil.

So someone who claims to believe but lives in willfull sin is not saved. Y/N ?

 

[mailmandan]

So someone who claims to believe but lives in willfull sin is not saved. Y/N ?

According to 1 John 3:9, yes. Ongoing willful, habitual sin with no repentance, no goal or effort to stop, does not describe a child of God.

 

[Chris1975]

According to 1 John 3:9, yes. Ongoing willful, habitual sin with no repentance, no goal or effort to stop, does not describe a child of God.

So the only real way to know if we are a true believer (if our faith is genuine) is whether we live in victory over sin, correct? And by that not practicing it.

 

[gb9]

So someone who claims to believe but lives in willfull sin is not saved. Y/N ?

still waiting on the update as to how your study of the word " sin " is going. I certainly hope you are doing it, you seem to be very limited as to your understanding of what sin actually is.

until you have a good concept of what it is, then you are not really qualified to speak about it.

this very question here reeks of ignorance as to how sin is defined in Biblical terms..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is not spirit baptism, because the Holy Spirit stays in us, where as we arise out of the water, and out of the grave, and out of our sins. But maybe for you, you do not arise out of your sins?

Our cleansing is through the blood that washes us clean.

Heb 10:22-24
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

Rev 7:15
And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The Holy Spirit coming into us is anointing not baptism

It says that is a baptism by the hand of God and tells us I was the HS. So how can it not be baptism if the spirit (the Hs baptizing us into him and his death)