Not By Works

Judges1318 · Jan 8, 2020

gb9 said:

Believing and works are two different things in regard to Paul's 'justification apart from works'.
I'm just saying if you stop believing you stop being saved, because salvation is through faith.
That's not a works gospel.
I'm not aware of faith in Christ being defined by Paul as the work that can not justify. Are you?
Works of righteousness are the result of being justified in Christ. That's why works accompany salvation (Hebrews 6:9-10). They do not accompany salvation because they earned that salvation.

gb9 · Jan 8, 2020

Judges1318 said:

I agree.

we still have free will, we choose to believe, one day we could choose to stop. ( but, that probably means one never believed to start with).

just to repeat, I am NOT o.s.a.s., I get lumped in with them, because I stand against judeaizers, and works salvationist.

I see you do not stand against these . why?

dcontroversal · Jan 8, 2020

VCO said:

See what a snake he is......!

dcontroversal · Jan 8, 2020

Chris1975 said:

And you say you are saved by works....interested in how lying helps you stay saved.......and you know full well I was not calling scripture drivel....

FOLKS this post right here by CHRIS shows how deceptive and false he really is!

dcontroversal · Jan 8, 2020

Lightskin said:

AMEN........you see the false post by the deceiver above that absolutely twists what I said......and yet he believe his works help save him or keep him saved.......pretty sure that 1 of the 7 things God hates in Proverbs 6 does not help him regardless of his false ideology!

EleventhHour · Jan 8, 2020

Judges1318 said:

If you do not believe that salvation/justified is one time event forever secure THEN your doctrine is one of works or dedication or maintaining or self effort or any combination thereof.

PS · Jan 8, 2020

VCO said:

You know, I believe that GOD put me on this thread for a reason.
And that seems to be to answer questions from people WHO DO NOT KNOW much more about OSAS than their Superstitions.
And Yes we Born Again Believers are going Serve HIM in Priesthood in the 1000 Year Kingdom.
And OUT OF LOVE FOR GOD we offer up Spiritual Sacrifices NOW and FOREVER as an ACT OF LOVE.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Revelation 5:9-10 (GWT)
9 Then they sang a new song, “You deserve to take the scroll and open the seals on it, because you were slaughtered. You bought people with your blood to be God's own. They are from every tribe, language, people, and nation.
10 You made them a kingdom and priests for our God. They will rule as kings on the earth.”

In the above Verses, it appears to be referring to Every True Believer of all TIME.
And in the below Verse It seems to be ONLY ISRAEL. Since you MUST READ IT IN CONTEXT. He then is talking about only ISRAEL,
in 1 Pet. 2:5.

1 Pet 2:9 (NRSV)
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

However I believe we too will be Priests in the KINGDOM serving HIM, but not those who Serve In the Temple itself during that 1000 Year Kingdom. THAT may have been why the ONLY VERSE with the WORD ROYAL ahead of Priesthood, is 1 Peter 2:9. If you look at other verses that says in the 1000 Year Kingdom, we will serve as Priests, the ROYAL is missing. So that Could be the distinction, O.T. Saints Serve in the Temple itself, and we Serve Outside of the Temple. Do not tune me out, hear my reasoning for that.

Revelation 20:4-6 (CSBBible)
4 Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Now their everyone in the First Resurrection, they will be Priests in the KINGDOM. So if we are Not the PRIESTS actually in the TEMPLE, what will be our JOB ? ? ? I can only speculate, however one of the things the PRIESTS DID Outside of the Temple, was to Teach the People. We will be in our immortal Bodies, but the 144,000 go into the KINGDOM in their MORTAL Bodies, and they will have lots of Children. I think GOD wants to have them experiencing the GARDEN of Eden in the PERFECT world environment. I believe when Jesus makes over the War Torn earth and God's Plagues on it, and IT WILL BE PERFECT, like the Garden of Eden. NOW, the Children of the 144,000, will NEVER have experienced anything but a PERFECT environment. HOW LIKELY WILL THEY TO BE TO TAKE EVERYTHING HE HAS PROVIDED, FOR GRANTED! NOW teaching them to be THANKFUL, could possibly be our FULL TIME JOB. And many will join Satan's rebellion in the END, just before the NEW ATMOSPHERE (New Heaven), and EARTH COMES.

I know lots of theologians will think my assessment of 1 Pet. 2:9 is not right. But Most have not picked up on fact, JESUS NEVER USED THE WORD CHURCH. That word came in to BEING after the ASSEMBLY started calling itself, CHURCH, around 200 A.D. You all can look up the GREEK WORD, and it ONLY meant ASSEMBLY at the time it was written.

How Important is changing a single WORD?

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

John 10:14-16 (HCSB)
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me, [Notice: Past Tense Verbiage when the Birthday of the Church is not until the Day of Pentecost after HIS Ascension. These People are the last of the O.T. ASSEMBLY.]
15 as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice.
Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

THEN - When? At the Rapture, there will be ONE and Only ONE ASSEMBLY.

O.T. ASSEMBLY Believed Messiah would come.

N.T. ASSEMBLY Believed Messiah did come, and He is JESUS CHRIST.

Below is an excerpt from one of my commentaries. It simplifies what are spiritual sacrifices, and it should motivate us to go to Church.
Notice their is NO Sacrifice for SIN. WHY? JESUS PAID it ALL. SALVATION of our Human Spirit is already COMPLETE. And we have a guarantee THAT HE WILL FINISH our Sanctification at the RESURRECTION.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

You still have your SUPERSTITIONS about OSAS.
They Too are just plain Phony.

You speak of people having the Spirit of God (or the world) in connection with OSAS, while at the same time failing to post a single scripture in support of your "superstition."

Those scriptures are not evidence of OSAS

NayborBear · Jan 8, 2020

Oncefallen said:

Truth be known? Ya don't have to go back any pages, to see a "rudeness that never ceases", from some of these people in here.
Just keep reading forwards, you'll see what I mean!
There seems to be some "double standard" in play here, where people, when they are unable in "defending" their side of the argument/s, (also known as discussions

), reach a point where they start being rude. Resorting to such pretty unchristian like "traits", such as mocking and scoffing. And, when they "tire" of that? Resort to calling people "other then their screen name" names!
And? When they are unsuccessful, in "running someone off", that way? Resume their "mocking and scoffing again!
And, for reasons no one seems wont to elaborate concerning?
Have been "getting away" with this "behavior", for years!
So? Because of this seemingly unaccountability concerning some peoples behavior?
It just KEEPS going on, and on, and on, and on!

I'm generally not one to complain!
Fact is? I've never reported ANYONE! For ANY reason! Nor have I IGNORED ANYONE!....Well?....I did have EG on ignore, several months back, but only for a coupla days.

I can tell you this as well! There's been more then one righteous heart, that has been made sad by these people, whom God has not made sad, and left, never to willingly return! (Brother Yet, comes to mind. The treatment of him? STILL "sticks in my crawl!") Some have even got took for a ride on the "ban wagon." Some deserved? Some NOT so much! And more then one wicked heart made stronger by these ones who promise things, they have NO authority to give! But, I believe you know this already.

PS · Jan 8, 2020

VCO said:

Then You do not understand BORN AGAIN. I will tell you one more time.

Born Again is when the Holy Spirit comes in you, and Births your once dead Human Spirit into Eternal Life.
It can take a few minutes to several hours. With me it took 2 or 3 hours, as I could not Believe HE COULD FORGIVE ME so much, such a sinful lifestyle.

My Born Again experience was after my Third attempt at SUICIDE, the last week of 1977. I new the most dangerous surface to ride a motorcycle on was loose gravel. That afternoon I saw them pouring the Gravel on a dirt road near my house. I planned to go back after I got good and drunk to arrange a fatal motorcycle accident.

The Reason I wanted to commit suicide, want on Christmas Eve a week before my wife of only 6 months, had demanded a DIVORCE, because I could not earn enough money to buy her what she want in life. Some Reason for a divorce, and I still cannot believe the words came out of her mouth on Christmas Eve. I hit Bottom BIG TIME. I felt like a COMPLETE FAILURE. The first two times I had a pistol against my temple, with the trigger half pulled. I did not care if I hurt my parents, I did not care if I hurt my brother or sister by committing suicide; all I KNEW was I wanted to CEASE to EXIST, and NOT SEE ANOTHER DAY. Both times EXTREME TERROR overwhelmed me, BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY KNEW IF I FINISHED PULLING THAT TRIGGER I WAS GOING TO HADES/HELL. I mean I was raised in a CHURCH, I believed all the Stories about Jesus were TRUE, attended Church Regularly, Sat on the Pew, put money in the Collection Plate every week, was Confirmed in the Church, etc., etc. And I knew I was going to Hades/Hell if I finished Pulling that trigger.

The third time I attempted suicide, I got as drunk as I have ever had been, rode my bike out to that very loose Gravel country mile, with No Helmet, about 01:15 in the morning. As I approached that Mile, I Taunted GOD, and screamed at Him, "If you want me, you can take me any where on this mile you can let me have a fatal accident." I knew the Bible said it was a SIN to test GOD THAT WAY; AND DID NOT CARE. Cranked that throttle WIDE OPEN, leaned out over the Handle Bars, so that when I lost Control, I WOULD HIT HEAD FIRST.

I RODE that entire mile, with the throttle wide open, and it felt like I was riding on Pavement. At the end of that mile I pulled over to stop, Looking Back at the Mile in Bewilderment. Went slowly home, and sat up most of the night, and sobered about 4:00 or maybe it was about 5:00, and decided to go to bed. As I walked into the Bedroom, IT HIT ME, "I CANNOT RIDE A BIKE LIKE THAT, NOT EVEN SOBER, GOD MUST HAVE REACHED DOWN AND GRABBED MY MOTORCYCLE AND SAID 'NO YOU DON'T! I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOUR LIVE." That thought in my head started Wave, after Wave, after Wave, of extreme GUILT for my WHOLE LIFESTYLE, that WASHED OVER ME. I fell to my knees, bawling and weeping with Baby. I was Crying out to HIM, "Lord, Lord, PLEASE FORGIVE ME!" Over and over and over again. Non-stop SOBBING, as I felt SO Incredibly GUILTY for my who lifestyle. Somewhere in the middle of it all, when I had gone prone on the floor, the HOLY SPIRIT must have given me a Prayer to Pray.

Lord God, If you have a purpose for my Life; then You are going to have to come Into It and run my life, because I CANNOT DO IT. I am making a TOTAL mess of my life.

The is what I prayed, AND NO ONE IN the Lutheran Church I attended had ever taught me to pray like that, SO I have to believe the Holy Spirit GAVE ME THAT SURRENDER PRAY. I meant It, Every Word of IT, it was a TOTAL Surrender to HIM out of Agape LOVE and TRUST. That is about were I leave off my Testimony with most People, but there is MORE. I was still sobbing over my Extreme Guilt. I had a vision or a dream, and if it was a dream it was the most vivid dream I ever had. I was at the foot of the Cross, on my knees still Sobbing Crying out "Please Forgive ME, Please Forgive Me", it was like all my sins were like another one pound weight pulling down on his arms increasing HIS torment. And at that moment I saw the Nails were in the wrists and not in his hands. I had never heard of that being the Case until years later, when a Christian Doctor on radio, told us the Nails had to be in the wrists, and not in the hands, because in the hands they would have torn through the flesh. And he said it did not matter, because Jews did consider the wrist were part of the hands. I looked and I saw blood falling from both wrists, and with my arms reaching out, from my knees to HIM, then the blood fell on my Forearms, AND TO MY SURPRISE IT FELT WARM. That is where the Dream or Vision ended. BUT I KNEW I WAS TOTALLY FORGIVEN AT THAT MOMENT. I notice there was LOVE in my CHEST for HIM, my dead spirit was eternally alive.

Later I tried to annualized in the Scripture what happen to me that night, I come across these verses.
And this was WHAT I DID LITERALLY:

Romans 10:9-11 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

I knew that it was a Confessions, and was NOT just a profession. It had to be TRUE in my HEART, before I could say it as a confession, AND THAT NIGHT I had surrendered to JESUS in AGAPE LOVE, and would NEVER take it back. As I began to feed on HIS WORD, something was in my heart was making me want MORE and MORE of that kind of teaching. The BIBLE became the most exciting book in the world to me. And then I notice the war going on in my heart, while the fleshly mind between my ears wanted to go party. Yes it was like I had a definite two minds. In my Heart was the mind that wanted to do what JESUS WANTED. And in my Head, that mind wanted to go Party, of some other Sin. The Mind in my heart finally after I had fed it the WORD enough, it became dominant.

That is what BORN AGAIN, is really like.

Being born again is only the beginning, it is what follows that is important.

You are posting scriptures that have no relevance to OSAS.

Judges1318 · Jan 8, 2020

gb9 said:

I actually agree with this. Most who stop believing probably never believed to begin with. Or I should say, never got to the 'Spirit' part of 'water and the Spirit' in John 3:5.

gb9 said:

Noted.

gb9 said:

Honestly, I don't see anyone saying works earn salvation. I see people saying works accompany salvation just as Hebrews 6:9-10 points out, because that's what happens when you're saved. And if you don't have works, you are not saved and do not have faith in Christ.

And as far as Judaizers, I realized many years ago that they think Christians must keep the literal Feasts and Sabbaths, etc. for the same reason we believe Christians are not to lie, or steal, or commit adultery. We believe that we are to obey because that's what faith in Christ does, not obey in order to earn justification. And so do they. But conscience tells them the obedience of faith includes obeying the laws of Feasts and Sabbath. And Paul is very clear that I am not to take that away from them. It's a matter of conscience, not a matter of works salvation. I'm not acting in love if I cause them to violate their conscience. But I will, occasionally, share the reason why I do not keep the Feasts and Sabbaths. In fact, it's one of my favorite subjects to talk about.

PS · Jan 9, 2020

Warnings in the Bible about backsliding are not given to people who have never believed. (OSAS favourite excuse.)

Atheist's or unbelievers CANNOT backslide.

PS · Jan 9, 2020

gb9 said:

RED: To do that is sacrilege. It does not bode well for people who do it.

PS · Jan 9, 2020

While it is true that we are saved eternally provided we do not turn away, there are conditions:

1 Cor 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, IF you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: IF we deny him, he also will deny us:

NayborBear · Jan 9, 2020

VCO said:

This tells me, you should have some understanding concerning "a mystery" about WHERE "the fullness of the gentiles", is heading to.
I can tell you this about an OSAS "superstition!" Teaching and promoting the "cessession" doctrine?
Is not only NOT gonna "provoke "Israel" to ANYTHING? It'll "provoke" God in sending a delusion that'll cause 'em to BELIEVE that lie! Let that sink in a moment or two!

This should also tell you that there are OSAS'ers, that have a clock, and yet, can't tell what "time" it is! Or worse? Sit on their "laurels" until that "last day!"
When they'll be raised up! But, NOT to be Priests of God, nor Jesus Christ! But, to be TAUGHT that Everlasting Gospel, their traditions and precepts of men, have made VOID, via their "superstitions."

VCO said:

I believe this! As I also believe these are the only ones to be "raptured." As OSAS'ers superstition teach and believe. The "rapture" commonly believed by OSAS'ers, is "a changing!" But, as far as "leaving terra firma?"
Not gonna happen. As much as they wish for it to be the same as the 144,000? It ain't!

VCO said:

Just when I was thinking you were getting a "handle" on things?
You dive right back into OSAS superstition.
These "spiritual sacrifices" are as much for "salvation", as they are for "Spiritual maturity!"
OSAS'er superstition teaches that the Holy Spirit cannot be "grieved."
Nor, do they have any idea as to what grieves the Holy Spirit.
You sin? I sin? We all sin!
This grieves the Holy Spirit! Grieves God the Father too, btw.
It is true "love covers" a lot of sin!
Hence, a lot LESS grieving!
But, grieved, nonetheless!
Would, or should it not behoove a believer in an "earnestly seeking out" that which yet grieves the Holy Spirit?
Or should a believer simply "walk in love", and "hope" they haven't committed any sin, or transgression that would grieve the Holy Spirit to cause Jesus to reject them at the last day?
OSAS superstition sez Yes!

Having been down that OSAS "superstition road?"
I HAVE to disagree!

I'm in the "hopes" that my posts "reflect" this!

SUNDOWNSAM · Jan 9, 2020

dcontroversal said:

--------------------------------------------
You cannot substantiate your view through the Scriptures and you are leaning towards the teachings of men, men who interpret the Scriptures to fit a view that they want to teach and want you to believe. God was clear in what he first spoke and no man should go into the Scriptures trying to interpret God's word otherwise they will distort the word of God. Again... GOD WAS CLEAR WHEN HE FIRST SPOKE!

One more thing, the Scriptures clearly states that a believer can betray the faith.

Who are you following the john mccarthurs, the john pipers? Why don't you let the Spirit of God enlighten your mind with a true understanding of God's word, what God made clear when he first spoke.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 9, 2020

JohnW34 said:

Until day of redemption

funny how you do not wish to discuss what that means.

DCON knows we should live a life which does not grieve the spirit, that is however not what this thread is about,

eternally-gratefull · Jan 9, 2020

JohnW34 said:

Johns ministry - "a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Luke 3:3
Jesus's ministry - "Son, your sins are forgiven" Mark 2:5

John 14:15-17
"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Rom 8:9
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

1 Cor 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If we have the Holy Spirit then these things are plain to us.

My simple observation is the comment "The only thing you got right was the LAST line"

Scripture and its meaning obviously is wrong if you do not agree with it.
Thankyou for that education lesson in your method of interpretation and understanding.

I puts you outside the realms of biblical scholarship and faith. It is your choice.
But it does not affect me, because my foundation is in Christ and His word, Amen.

When are you going to discus Col 2.you asked me what I wanted to discus. Then fell of the board. Does it scare your?

dcon loves scripture, he will discuss it with you any day,

what he hates is scripture taken out of context and twisted to support a works based self righteous save yourself gospel

eternally-gratefull · Jan 9, 2020

Judges1318 said:

He gets it, then loses it.
it’s all about HIM.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 9, 2020

PS said:

Salvation is the most important thing that can happen to a person. The fact you think what happens after is more important just explains how you misunderstand mans problem, and Gods issue with man

eternally-gratefull · Jan 9, 2020

SUNDOWNSAM said:

The pharisees did that, and Jesus called them out, the ones who refused to repent are headed to hell.
when judgment day comes, these people trying to earn or maintain their salvation claiming it is losable, will be called out by Jesus also. The difference is, for them it will be too late.

the word is calling them out today, we can just pray they repent like Saul and nicodemus and others did, before its to late,

some have (rosemary as an example) some are still fighting

the battle has already been won, those in Christ are secure, there is nothing for them to fight for, the people fighting are those fighting against the security of God, because they hate OSAS (a term) or Calvin (a man who is long since dead) one they (like pharisees) think they are so righteous they are good. And just like them think it is their duty to judge sinners, when Jesus said not even he came to judge, but to save.

they need to worry about saving themselves. And not trying to tell others they are not saved or love sin or whatever it is they think,

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