Not By Works
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John 6:39, John 10:27-30, good starting point
Jesus will lose none that are given to Him by the Father.
Those who are Jesus' sheep listen to His voice, know Him, and follow Him, and shall never perish
Those who are not Jesus' sheep don't listen to His voice, don't know Him, don't follow Him, don't have eternal life, and shall perish.
Jesus said "you do not believe, because you are not my sheep"
John wrote these things that Jesus said for our edification, instruction, and assurance
Jesus will lose none that are given to Him by the Father.
Those who are Jesus' sheep listen to His voice, know Him, and follow Him, and shall never perish
Those who are not Jesus' sheep don't listen to His voice, don't know Him, don't follow Him, don't have eternal life, and shall perish.
Jesus said "you do not believe, because you are not my sheep"
John wrote these things that Jesus said for our edification, instruction, and assurance
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For the same reason the writer did not use the conclusive term "you can't lose your salvation", perhaps?
I guess if you explain why that term is not used you'll have the answer to why he didn't come right out and say the Hebrews were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit".
Galatians does use very conclusive language about them having the Spirit in salvation, and they fell away, and yet instead of just going with what the letter plainly says once saved always saved has to save itself by changing what the Galatians fell from. So I suppose a similar attempt to dodge the obvious would have been invented in the case of the Hebrews, too.
I guess if you explain why that term is not used you'll have the answer to why he didn't come right out and say the Hebrews were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit".
Galatians does use very conclusive language about them having the Spirit in salvation, and they fell away, and yet instead of just going with what the letter plainly says once saved always saved has to save itself by changing what the Galatians fell from. So I suppose a similar attempt to dodge the obvious would have been invented in the case of the Hebrews, too.
Okay, so now the writer is being very explicit about them being saved, yet once saved always saved has to reach for yet another argument crafted to avoid the obvious.
And we're back to the issue of the unfruitfulness. We both agree that unfruitfulness is the sign of not being saved. But you haven't explained how unfruitfulness has to mean a person was NEVER saved. I just see the bias of once saved always saved being read right back into the argument it's trying to prove.
And we're back to the issue of the unfruitfulness. We both agree that unfruitfulness is the sign of not being saved. But you haven't explained how unfruitfulness has to mean a person was NEVER saved. I just see the bias of once saved always saved being read right back into the argument it's trying to prove.
Yes, it would contradict that........if you could prove that the continued possession of the guarantee (the Holy Spirit) is not conditional on anything whatsoever. But, as we've seen in several places in scripture, the deposit of the Spirit in a person guaranteeing the inheritance is conditional on the person holding fast to that which they heard in the beginning.
1 John 2:24-26 KJV
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
The wording here removes all possibility of making it say abiding in the Son and the Father means you will always abide in the word. John says to LET the word you heard in the beginning abide in you, because IF you do that you will abide in the Son and the Father.
1 John 2:24-26 KJV
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
The wording here removes all possibility of making it say abiding in the Son and the Father means you will always abide in the word. John says to LET the word you heard in the beginning abide in you, because IF you do that you will abide in the Son and the Father.
lolz ok. so faith is the gift of God but the believing part is your part then you end with "that is what it means for the righteousness you receive from God comes to you through faith."
Remember, faith is defined in the Bible as simply knowing that something really is true (Hebrews 11:1). Faith is what God gives us, first, so we can then place our trust in what he has shown us to really be true, and be saved. Just having that faith to know something is true doesn't save anybody. Trusting in what you know is true is what saves.
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1. He is wrong, faith in the Bible is not just simply knowing, demons know. And we see what James said
2. biblical faith is more than just knowledge, it’s trust, it is having an assurance That someone or something will do what needs done
thats his problem. He waters down the word.
2. biblical faith is more than just knowledge, it’s trust, it is having an assurance That someone or something will do what needs done
thats his problem. He waters down the word.
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John 6:39
I should lose nothing - It is the will of God that every soul who believes should continue in the faith, and have a resurrection unto life eternal. But he wills this continuance in salvation, without purposing to force the persons so to continue. God may will a thing to be, without willing that it shall be. Judas was given to Christ by the Father, Joh_17:12. The Father willed that this Judas should continue in the faith, and have a resurrection unto life eternal: but Judas sinned and perished. Now it is evident that God willed that Judas might be saved, without willing that he must be saved infallibly and unconditionally. (Adam Clarke)
John 10:28
They shall never perish - God hath given unto them eternal life, and this life is in his Son; and he that hath the Son hath life, 1Jn_5:11, 1Jn_5:12. Now it is evident that only those who have Christ living in and governing their souls, so that they possess the mind that was in him, are his sheep - are those that shall never perish, because they have this eternal life abiding in them: therefore to talk of a man’s being one of the elect - one that shall never perish - one who shall have eternal life - who shall never be plucked out of the hand of God, etc., while he lives in sin, has no Christ in his heart, has either never received or fallen away from the grace of God, is as contrary to common sense as it is to the nature and testimonies of the Most High. Final perseverance implies final faithfulness - he that endures to the end shall be saved - he that is faithful unto death shall have a crown of life. (Adam Clarke)
The condition is that he remains faithful and endures to the end.
I should lose nothing - It is the will of God that every soul who believes should continue in the faith, and have a resurrection unto life eternal. But he wills this continuance in salvation, without purposing to force the persons so to continue. God may will a thing to be, without willing that it shall be. Judas was given to Christ by the Father, Joh_17:12. The Father willed that this Judas should continue in the faith, and have a resurrection unto life eternal: but Judas sinned and perished. Now it is evident that God willed that Judas might be saved, without willing that he must be saved infallibly and unconditionally. (Adam Clarke)
John 10:28
They shall never perish - God hath given unto them eternal life, and this life is in his Son; and he that hath the Son hath life, 1Jn_5:11, 1Jn_5:12. Now it is evident that only those who have Christ living in and governing their souls, so that they possess the mind that was in him, are his sheep - are those that shall never perish, because they have this eternal life abiding in them: therefore to talk of a man’s being one of the elect - one that shall never perish - one who shall have eternal life - who shall never be plucked out of the hand of God, etc., while he lives in sin, has no Christ in his heart, has either never received or fallen away from the grace of God, is as contrary to common sense as it is to the nature and testimonies of the Most High. Final perseverance implies final faithfulness - he that endures to the end shall be saved - he that is faithful unto death shall have a crown of life. (Adam Clarke)
The condition is that he remains faithful and endures to the end.
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In modern english you are actually correct. We can use those other words to help someone understand what faith means "exactly" and the different ways it can be used.
There is a huge difference between the "faith" you can have in a sports team to win, and the "faith" you have that if you put your hand in fire it will burn.
The person you are quoting is completely off in regards to what makes a biblical faith.
Not only knowing Jesus is Lord, (belief) but trusting in Him as Savior.... Confidence in this is the result of the BELIEF and TRUST
which will produce
fidelity/loyalty.....
We can't unKNOW we are His
though some can hear the truth
believe it
and willfully reject it (even if for a time they walk among us as tares or goats)
while not trusting in Jesus and have no confidence which produces "falling away" "unfaithfulness"
4102. pistis ►
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡPart of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.
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Where is the words must live in Christ and endure till the end in this passages?
and why did he leave out the fact jesus in John 6 said they would NEVER die, they would live FOREVER. They HAVE eternal life, they they will live as LONG as JESUS lives, they will NEVER HUNGER and NEVER thirst. And they are given his assurance that they will be raised on the last day?
talk about leaving words out and adding words..
and why did he leave out the fact jesus in John 6 said they would NEVER die, they would live FOREVER. They HAVE eternal life, they they will live as LONG as JESUS lives, they will NEVER HUNGER and NEVER thirst. And they are given his assurance that they will be raised on the last day?
talk about leaving words out and adding words..
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Everyone is elected. It was and is Gods plan and purpose that everyone will be saved. God draws EVERYONE to Him, but then, "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way"
Sorry mate, if everyone has turned away there is nobody left. WE NEED TO REMAIN FAITHFUL TO THE END.
Sorry mate, if everyone has turned away there is nobody left. WE NEED TO REMAIN FAITHFUL TO THE END.
When Peter denied Jesus, if his life was taken in that moment.... where do you believe he would have gone after his physical life ended?
Do you believe despite the faith in his heart God would have looked to Peters actions to see if he would be justified, or do you believe because of Gods grace and through faith the righteousness of Christ would be what justified him before God?
Do you believe despite the faith in his heart God would have looked to Peters actions to see if he would be justified, or do you believe because of Gods grace and through faith the righteousness of Christ would be what justified him before God?
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