Not By Works
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Fighting against a false gospel is not abuse.
The self righteous got to see the tough love Jesus will give to the hard hearted.
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
romans 10
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
_______
The salvation you speak of is far different than what Jesus taught...
"if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
___________
matthew 23
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
_________
Was that abuse?
No.
That's hard truths given to those who think their own efforts will save them.... these are like the sort who Jesus never knew and will say "lord lord have i not done many wonderful works"
Blind to His grace....self righteous with zeal but no new heart....
No matter how righteous you believe yourself to be.... you fall short
and we can only be saved by grace through faith.... then we will be judged by the righteousness imputed to us from the only one who could measure up to Gods standard of righteousness
absolute perfection
our Lord and savior Jesus Christ has made us acceptable and our salvation is not of ourselves
on that day our words are not proud or vain
but grateful and meek "Father I know only by your grace someone like me could enter your kingdom."
Thank you Father for placing so many brothers and sisters here to rebuke these false doctrines which place mans own actions above the work of our Savior.
Please Father soften the hearts of those who do not know you deeply and open their eyes and ears to the truth. Please in Jesus name show them what you want them to see, even if it is embarrassing or hard to accept when we are so far off... I know anything is possible with you Lord.
amen
The self righteous got to see the tough love Jesus will give to the hard hearted.
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
romans 10
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
_______
The salvation you speak of is far different than what Jesus taught...
"if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
___________
matthew 23
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
_________
Was that abuse?
No.
That's hard truths given to those who think their own efforts will save them.... these are like the sort who Jesus never knew and will say "lord lord have i not done many wonderful works"
Blind to His grace....self righteous with zeal but no new heart....
No matter how righteous you believe yourself to be.... you fall short
and we can only be saved by grace through faith.... then we will be judged by the righteousness imputed to us from the only one who could measure up to Gods standard of righteousness
absolute perfection
our Lord and savior Jesus Christ has made us acceptable and our salvation is not of ourselves
on that day our words are not proud or vain
but grateful and meek "Father I know only by your grace someone like me could enter your kingdom."
Thank you Father for placing so many brothers and sisters here to rebuke these false doctrines which place mans own actions above the work of our Savior.
Please Father soften the hearts of those who do not know you deeply and open their eyes and ears to the truth. Please in Jesus name show them what you want them to see, even if it is embarrassing or hard to accept when we are so far off... I know anything is possible with you Lord.
amen
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The above is just propoganda. It is like saying this sentence can only be seen this way or else you will
be regarded as sick and someone will be angry at you.
The truth is we see the truth of scripture through it speaking to our hearts. It cannot be manufactured
on twisted or manipulated. It either does speak or it does not.
The anger regarding insulting God, or lying about Him, is something man does. People have been doing this
forever to excuse their sin and not come humbly before Him and accept His ways. Just look at the religious
people of Jesus's day, Jesus preached love, peace, finding God in your heart and walking in His ways, something
they should have embraced, but they spent their time looking for ways to get Him killed.
Jesus got angry at the use of the temple to earn wealth rather than be a place of worship and purity.
And rightly so, our worship should be the thing we desire to bring to Him, Amen.
be regarded as sick and someone will be angry at you.
The truth is we see the truth of scripture through it speaking to our hearts. It cannot be manufactured
on twisted or manipulated. It either does speak or it does not.
The anger regarding insulting God, or lying about Him, is something man does. People have been doing this
forever to excuse their sin and not come humbly before Him and accept His ways. Just look at the religious
people of Jesus's day, Jesus preached love, peace, finding God in your heart and walking in His ways, something
they should have embraced, but they spent their time looking for ways to get Him killed.
Jesus got angry at the use of the temple to earn wealth rather than be a place of worship and purity.
And rightly so, our worship should be the thing we desire to bring to Him, Amen.
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Imagine thinking another way. We wish to persuade dc to see faith with works in the way of Christ,
and life in Him. Never would anger or telling someone they are lazy and blind to the Gods word would
bring about a good result.
Rather we would just share how Gods word is life to our hearts, and praise to our souls, how love conquers
issues and bring joy to us as we help others in our daily lives.
So the approach shown indicates the fruit they wish to bear, discouragement and antagonism. God bless you.
and life in Him. Never would anger or telling someone they are lazy and blind to the Gods word would
bring about a good result.
Rather we would just share how Gods word is life to our hearts, and praise to our souls, how love conquers
issues and bring joy to us as we help others in our daily lives.
So the approach shown indicates the fruit they wish to bear, discouragement and antagonism. God bless you.
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Maybe you don't understand what you quoted is against you or maybe you have been deceived.
Luke 10:
25One day an expert in the law stood up to test Him. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”
27He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’c and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d ”
28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.”
29But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30Jesus took up this question and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead.
Jesus is not going to love your neighbor for you, in fact, the needy neighbor is a test Jesus gives you.
Luke 10:
25One day an expert in the law stood up to test Him. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”
27He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’c and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d ”
28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.”
29But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30Jesus took up this question and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead.
Jesus is not going to love your neighbor for you, in fact, the needy neighbor is a test Jesus gives you.
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____________
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
people try to take and mix up
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and try to say a man needs more than grace and faith to be saved (which isnt true)
again same principal
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was.... it is not evil to have possessions)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
these men, much like the pharisee believe they can earn salvation
Just as God gave us the law to show us how guilty we are
God gave those men instruction to expose the fact they NEED Him
I have observed some who opposed talking about love and Jesus being central to our lives,
yet in the discussions with some, they say exactly this.
It makes me wonder who they are and what they really stand for. Over time people can change
their perspectives and not notice that they contradict where they started out, and maybe they
have actually come to faith and walking in His ways, while before it was distant, and those they
used to call enemies are now friends.
This is why antagonism is dangerous, and provocation can damage the work of God in our hearts.
We are all learning and walking each new day in Him and by Him and through Him, Amen
yet in the discussions with some, they say exactly this.
It makes me wonder who they are and what they really stand for. Over time people can change
their perspectives and not notice that they contradict where they started out, and maybe they
have actually come to faith and walking in His ways, while before it was distant, and those they
used to call enemies are now friends.
This is why antagonism is dangerous, and provocation can damage the work of God in our hearts.
We are all learning and walking each new day in Him and by Him and through Him, Amen
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It is important that you don't concentrate on the trap these people were trying to lay or what they thought but look at what Jesus says with regards to the critical question because what Jesus says is a teaching that informs our understanding on the same.
Jesus said love thy God with all thy strength and also love they neighbor to attain eternal life.
Instead of using so many words to argue, you need to be explaining how this (what Jesus told him) is not true.
Or, let me simply ask you, do you believe that by loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor you'll will attain eternal life?
Jesus said love thy God with all thy strength and also love they neighbor to attain eternal life.
Instead of using so many words to argue, you need to be explaining how this (what Jesus told him) is not true.
Or, let me simply ask you, do you believe that by loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor you'll will attain eternal life?
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You remind me of nicodemus.😔
I pray you learn it is not your righteousness that will get you into heaven.
Please go over the verses I've posted to help you and pray.
As for the questions, a few days ago you quoted me while ignoring my question. Then you asked multiple questions I answered. Then you never answered mine.
I hope you will go back and stop talking over me but talk to me so we can discuss this.
You are in desperate need wether you see it or not.
"do you believe that by loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor you'll will attain eternal life"
No. I have been saved by grace.
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
I started to love Him with the new heart He gave me after He loved me first.
I pray you learn it is not your righteousness that will get you into heaven.
Please go over the verses I've posted to help you and pray.
As for the questions, a few days ago you quoted me while ignoring my question. Then you asked multiple questions I answered. Then you never answered mine.
I hope you will go back and stop talking over me but talk to me so we can discuss this.
You are in desperate need wether you see it or not.
"do you believe that by loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor you'll will attain eternal life"
No. I have been saved by grace.
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
I started to love Him with the new heart He gave me after He loved me first.
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Grace is for the whole world, not only you:
1 John 2:2
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
God's work/grace is a free gift for anyone/ whosoever/ world, not specific people.
But loving is not because of this free grace but it is a decree for those that accept this free grace:
Gal 5:14The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
1 John 2:2
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
God's work/grace is a free gift for anyone/ whosoever/ world, not specific people.
But loving is not because of this free grace but it is a decree for those that accept this free grace:
Gal 5:14The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
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I think you missed the point Jesus is making.
These people had gone a good way down the road, but just not far enough.
The rich young man had arrived at real spirituality, so he thought.
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10
This young man was focused on himself and what he had achieved. But who was he speaking to?
God. God was the source of life and eternity, the true objective of being good and love itself.
And there he was talking as if what he had was everything, the complete religious bag of salvation.
But it was focused on him and not God. He was speaking to God. Nothing else mattered. And God called
him to follow, while giving up his true security, his wealth.
So what he was doing in following the law was good, it was just his heart was not in loving God.
The law was given because it is Holy and Good and the way of life. It shows up our failures and our needs,
which we can bring to Christ to heal and make whole. It is not something to be rejected but in love followed.
We are free from the Law of Moses but not the Law of Christ, the law of righteousness, to which we are slaves.
I might desire relationships with many women and my passion to share with them, but love, faithfulness,
intimacy, truth, commitment, joy, deep concern holds me from getting involved in things that lead to hurt
and destruction. We are part of a whole, and that whole is Gods creation and His ways, praise His Holy Name.
These people had gone a good way down the road, but just not far enough.
The rich young man had arrived at real spirituality, so he thought.
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10
This young man was focused on himself and what he had achieved. But who was he speaking to?
God. God was the source of life and eternity, the true objective of being good and love itself.
And there he was talking as if what he had was everything, the complete religious bag of salvation.
But it was focused on him and not God. He was speaking to God. Nothing else mattered. And God called
him to follow, while giving up his true security, his wealth.
So what he was doing in following the law was good, it was just his heart was not in loving God.
The law was given because it is Holy and Good and the way of life. It shows up our failures and our needs,
which we can bring to Christ to heal and make whole. It is not something to be rejected but in love followed.
We are free from the Law of Moses but not the Law of Christ, the law of righteousness, to which we are slaves.
I might desire relationships with many women and my passion to share with them, but love, faithfulness,
intimacy, truth, commitment, joy, deep concern holds me from getting involved in things that lead to hurt
and destruction. We are part of a whole, and that whole is Gods creation and His ways, praise His Holy Name.
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Fighting against a false gospel is not abuse.
The self righteous got to see the tough love Jesus will give to the hard hearted.
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
romans 10
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
_______
The salvation you speak of is far different than what Jesus taught...
"if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
___________
matthew 23
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
_________
Was that abuse?
No.
That's hard truths given to those who think their own efforts will save them.... these are like the sort who Jesus never knew and will say "lord lord have i not done many wonderful works"
Blind to His grace....self righteous with zeal but no new heart....
No matter how righteous you believe yourself to be.... you fall short
and we can only be saved by grace through faith.... then we will be judged by the righteousness imputed to us from the only one who could measure up to Gods standard of righteousness
absolute perfection
our Lord and savior Jesus Christ has made us acceptable and our salvation is not of ourselves
on that day our words are not proud or vain
but grateful and meek "Father I know only by your grace someone like me could enter your kingdom."
Thank you Father for placing so many brothers and sisters here to rebuke these false doctrines which place mans own actions above the work of our Savior.
Please Father soften the hearts of those who do not know you deeply and open their eyes and ears to the truth. Please in Jesus name show them what you want them to see, even if it is embarrassing or hard to accept when we are so far off... I know anything is possible with you Lord.
amen
The self righteous got to see the tough love Jesus will give to the hard hearted.
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
romans 10
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
_______
The salvation you speak of is far different than what Jesus taught...
"if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
___________
matthew 23
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
_________
Was that abuse?
No.
That's hard truths given to those who think their own efforts will save them.... these are like the sort who Jesus never knew and will say "lord lord have i not done many wonderful works"
Blind to His grace....self righteous with zeal but no new heart....
No matter how righteous you believe yourself to be.... you fall short
and we can only be saved by grace through faith.... then we will be judged by the righteousness imputed to us from the only one who could measure up to Gods standard of righteousness
absolute perfection
our Lord and savior Jesus Christ has made us acceptable and our salvation is not of ourselves
on that day our words are not proud or vain
but grateful and meek "Father I know only by your grace someone like me could enter your kingdom."
Thank you Father for placing so many brothers and sisters here to rebuke these false doctrines which place mans own actions above the work of our Savior.
Please Father soften the hearts of those who do not know you deeply and open their eyes and ears to the truth. Please in Jesus name show them what you want them to see, even if it is embarrassing or hard to accept when we are so far off... I know anything is possible with you Lord.
amen
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I was stubborn and hard headed.... praise God for delivering me from a false gospel...
As thankful as I am for the assurance He has worked in me through faith in His promises.... I am still very sad to see many of His words misunderstood here by people who could be used by Him for so many wonderful things...
As thankful as I am for the assurance He has worked in me through faith in His promises.... I am still very sad to see many of His words misunderstood here by people who could be used by Him for so many wonderful things...
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AMEN....how many rounds did we have.....and yet I did not give up on you because you were open to the truth and you dealt with my approach......I am amazed at how easily people are offended at the truth or even one that responds in a manner similar to the men of the bible....JESUS, JOHN the Dipper, Elijah, Paul, and others were at times very HARD and used very pointed words, names, sarcasm and heat to wade into those that flat refused the truth and or those that stood against the truth....anyone can follow me and see that when people are open, non accusatory, and do not embellish or twist what I say I have no problem playing nice.....but when they do the exact opposite I WILL WADE IN and will not spare.......and if people cannot handle a little of this on a web site....they are going to be in REAL trouble when it really gets hot for believers..........
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We have assurance in Christs love and He is doing wonderful things through His people each and every
day, Amen.
I find it sad that you feel people miss-understand Gods grace, when in truth His elect will always understand,
and in the end that is all that matters. So many seem to think there is a group we can bring into the Kingdom
while declaring it is all Gods work.
And truly I know some are trying to earn their way to heaven through good works, and you may well have been
one of them, but this does not mean your brothers and sisters in Christ are like you once were or that you know
them after a few sentences written on a forum. I have continually found people miss-understanding others and
their intentions, only to discover their mistake, days, weeks later.
We need to be quick to listen and slow to speak, God bless you.
day, Amen.
I find it sad that you feel people miss-understand Gods grace, when in truth His elect will always understand,
and in the end that is all that matters. So many seem to think there is a group we can bring into the Kingdom
while declaring it is all Gods work.
And truly I know some are trying to earn their way to heaven through good works, and you may well have been
one of them, but this does not mean your brothers and sisters in Christ are like you once were or that you know
them after a few sentences written on a forum. I have continually found people miss-understanding others and
their intentions, only to discover their mistake, days, weeks later.
We need to be quick to listen and slow to speak, God bless you.
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As a brother in Christ we are called to behave particular ways.
It is perfectly reasonable to expect love and respect from our family in Christ and walk in His Spirit.
If one understood what it meant to be like Paul, who would not eat meat in case it upset the conscience
of a vegetarian believer, you will begin to see our calling and sensitivity one to another God is calling us to.
In some regards it is actually hard to say some truths to certain individuals because they are so sensitive and
need such support, but that is the ministry of care one for another we have. God bless you, and may you learn
some are more fragile than you can imagine, and as loving people, disregarding this reality works against the
very ministry we are called to follow in Him, Amen.
It is perfectly reasonable to expect love and respect from our family in Christ and walk in His Spirit.
If one understood what it meant to be like Paul, who would not eat meat in case it upset the conscience
of a vegetarian believer, you will begin to see our calling and sensitivity one to another God is calling us to.
In some regards it is actually hard to say some truths to certain individuals because they are so sensitive and
need such support, but that is the ministry of care one for another we have. God bless you, and may you learn
some are more fragile than you can imagine, and as loving people, disregarding this reality works against the
very ministry we are called to follow in Him, Amen.
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Remember David every action,ever word of disrespect,name calling and derogatory remark you make is recorded in Gods records and if you fail to repent will be held against YOU! I think God can fight His own battles and I believe YOU ARE SELF APPOINTED! None of your responses are according to Christ law of love.Jn3:16 For GOD so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ,that WHOSOEVER believes on HIM shall not perish. YOU should be DIRECTING others to HIS GREAT LOVE! It seems to me as though YOU seek YOUR OWN GLORY! Peace and love!
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