Not By Works

[Hevosmies]

one day! Glad you didnt have to do more.

TRY A DECADE and see if you come out sane!

I believe its unscriptural, and a CRUEL and an UNUSUAL punishment, but what do I know? I aint sane! Thats another topic!

 

[dcontroversal]

one day! Glad you didnt have to do more.

TRY A DECADE and see if you come out sane!

I believe its unscriptural, and a CRUEL and an UNUSUAL punishment, but what do I know? I aint sane! Thats another topic!

Well...three days and three nights total....LIKE JESUS I came out a changed MAN

 

[safswan]

Faith works by love if you truly love God and love your brother, you are "doing righteousness" But let let us not love in word only, but in deed and truth John said

We will not be absolutely sinless or infallible. God expects us to walk according to what we have received. Some Christians are further along, so God requires more. To whom much is given, much is required

But if you neglect what light is given you, God may not give more light.

I agree.

 

[UnderGrace]

You carry on, any excuse to avoid doing an exegesis of scripture you cannot do. You simply confirm what I repeatedly state on these websites. People who run to the greek and concordences cannot discern a spiritual message when asked to do so, for they have the wrong kind of trinity, Father Son and the Bible. They rely on the little grey cells to learn, not the Holy Spirit, and only he can lead you into spiritual truth/discernement. All you are left with then, is a very shallow understanding of the message, hence your deflection now

I understand what you are saying but we never park our brains while studying scripture, while the Holy Spirit is critical we must search out the historical context, historical etymology of words, and the Greek meaning of words within that context, to be anti-thinking is contrary to scripture, we are called to engage our ability to reason, problem solve and be critical thinkers.

Jesus challenged the prevailing beliefs of the day all the time.

Preaching against the use of the mind to as part of understanding spiritual truth is a very cult-like approach imho.

As someone who was raised in speaking a different language I can tell you very plainly it is very helpful to know that languages have different idioms, cultural expressions, analogies that can only be understood within that language.

Me thinks you are just trying another avenue to win your "conditional salvation" argument by stating you know this by the Holy Spirit not lexicons which is another faulty argument.

 

[safswan]

Abraham was justified by his works before man; "but not before God", most reasonable people can see this truth.

Wrong.There is no need for any of us to be justified before men.

 

[unclesilas]

I understand what you are saying but we never park our brains while studying scripture, while the Holy Spirit is critical we must search out the historical context, historical etymology of words, and the Greek meaning of words within that context, to be anti-thinking is contrary to scripture, we are called to engage our ability to reason, problem solve and be critical thinkers.

Jesus challenged the prevailing beliefs of the day all the time.

Preaching against the use of the mind to as part of understanding spiritual truth is a very cult-like approach imho.

As someone who was raised in speaking a different language I can tell you very plainly it is very helpful to know that languages have different idioms, cultural expressions, analogies that can only be understood within that language.

Me thinks you are just trying another avenue to win your "conditional salvation" argument by stating you know this by the Holy Spirit not lexicons which is another faulty argument.

Is it faulty? The most rapid growth and greatest power seen in the Christian church was before, not after the emergence of scholars and theologians, and they had no lexicons to explore the word. The believers were known as ''The Way'' they lived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. The flesh can only get in the way of growth, that includes relying on the little grey cells to learn. The Holy Spirit does not rely on a person reading the greek or concordances to reveal truth to them, he is not limited by such things.
And I do not mean you here, please believe that, but in this thread, the extraordinary lengths I have seen people go to, in order to overturn the plainly written word that opposes what they believe is staggering to me. And those most guilty of doing it rely on the greek and concordances.

 

[safswan]

You claim:

"You remind me of a past member that was banned......you speak the same way, same style and use the same verbiage.."

Notice I said:

"You claim:"

This is in relation to the poster called Dcontroversal

So let me get this straight, you have been here 3 weeks, and your accusing another member who has been here for 6 years of being banned?

Not at all.Read more carefully.

 

[UnderGrace]

Is it faulty? The most rapid growth and greatest power seen in the Christian church was before, not after the emergence of scholars and theologians, and they had no lexicons to explore the word. The believers were known as ''The Way'' they lived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. The flesh can only get in the way of growth, that includes relying on the little grey cells to learn. The Holy Spirit does not rely on a person reading the greek or concordances to reveal truth to them, he is not limited by such things.
And I do not mean you here, please believe that, but in this thread, the extraordinary lengths I have seen people go to, in order to overturn the plainly written word that opposes what they believe is staggering to me. And those most guilty of doing it rely on the greek and concordances.

Sure, all within strong oral/verbal traditions of that culture.

'The Way'' they lived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit.

Oh really is that why Paul, John and Peter kept warning about false teachings in the tradition of gnosticism entering into Christian thought. Read the early church leaders most of them could not even plainly state the gospel.

If you knew your history you would know that it was the printing press that set the people free from false teachings.

Little grey cells are not the flesh, like I said someone who denies reason and discourages thought is close to cult like teachings.

Be a good Berean use your mind, pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit and search the scriptures and use a lexicon when needed.

 

[50C1AL0N3]

we are justified by our faith. James wasn't saying that everyone claiming faith in Christ need to go to sleep planning and jump awake to fulfill a standard of "good work" to solidify their salvation.
He was simply stating that faith and good works are married so to speak to one another. One can't exist without the other.
Faith without good work's is dead. In retrospect, good work's can not exist but in faith.
Faith though can only exist through the spirit of truth. For what do w have faith in that is the true saving faith?
What, that Christ came down from heaven with a list, a pointer, and blackboard to teach us the way to eternal life is obtained through following the commandments proceeding forth out of the mouth of the son of God when Israel already failed epically following commandments etched in stone?
Or was he saying to have faith in the power of God and his perfect with and to believe in the power of his diety and that he was sent to complete the promised and will of God and that he be da man and he came as a conqueror to defeat the devil and save with surety and power.... not that he came to teach and be remembered by a horrific death.
Silly rabbi....tricks are for kids. Not Gods kids either.

 

[safswan]

What am I avoiding? I added nothing to scripture as the word “says-claims” is clearly stated in James 2:14. Neither the text or I am implying that Abraham merely “claimed” to have faith. He truly had faith which was evidenced by works, in contrast to those who merely say-claim they have faith but have no works.

Abraham’s faith was saving and I already explained why in post #83,239. Be sure to go back and read it again. Not sure why you’re having such a difficult time understanding this.

It is simply because this is not a contrast and explains your error if you do not understand this.Abraham was used as an example to support what James was teaching.Hence if Abraham's faith was real then those saying they had faith was a reference to real faith by James.

 

[unclesilas]

Sure, all within strong oral/verbal traditions of that culture.



Oh really is that why Paul, John and Peter kept warning about false teachings in the tradition of gnosticism entering into Christian thought. Read the early church leaders most of them could not even plainly state the gospel.

If you knew your history you would know that it was the printing press that set the people free from false teachings.

Little grey cells are not the flesh, like I said someone who denies reason and discourages thought is close to cult like teachings.

Be a good Berean use your mind, pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit and search the scriptures and use a lexicon when needed.

But you don't need a lexicon do you if the Holy Spirit is revealing the truth to you of what you read, you need one if you are not relying on him. Of course false teachers tried to worm their way in, what has that to do with the true church living in simple faith and a tota;l reliance on the Holy Spirit?
You think it is cultish not to rely on the little grey cells, but rather the Holy Spirit totally? Maybe if more did that on this website they would not be so eager to overturn the plainly written word

 

[dcontroversal]

we are justified by our faith. James wasn't saying that everyone claiming faith in Christ need to go to sleep planning and jump awake to fulfill a standard of "good work" to solidify their salvation.
He was simply stating that faith and good works are married so to speak to one another. One can't exist without the other.
Faith without good work's is dead. In retrospect, good work's can not exist but in faith.
Faith though can only exist through the spirit of truth. For what do w have faith in that is the true saving faith?
What, that Christ came down from heaven with a list, a pointer, and blackboard to teach us the way to eternal life is obtained through following the commandments proceeding forth out of the mouth of the son of God when Israel already failed epically following commandments etched in stone?
Or was he saying to have faith in the power of God and his perfect with and to believe in the power of his diety and that he was sent to complete the promised and will of God and that he be da man and he came as a conqueror to defeat the devil and save with surety and power.... not that he came to teach and be remembered by a horrific death.
Silly rabbi....tricks are for kids. Not Gods kids either.

As we have said 1000 times.....

a. Faith alone is what saves a man eternally
b. Genuine faith will produce at least 1 piece of fruit or works

Saved FOR not BY and for sure we are not kept saved by either one..........

The gift of eternal life is IRREVOCABLY given at the moment of confessional faith....I.E. Belief into Christ and confession of that belief.

With the mind man believes and with the MOUTH confession is made unto salvation

 

[Rosemaryx]

My Salvation relies on God alone...

 

[Rosemaryx]

This is such a comfort knowing that our LORD prayed for us , I feel so touched by this...

John 17:20-23 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

 

[safswan]

blah blah blah......you and your buddy are still peddling nothing but deceit...........

You could have just ignored seeing you had no response to what I said.But I guess your sense of duty would not permit this.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Someone sinning against you does not equate to that person being lost

Maybe so.


However, that person is in danger of becoming lost if they continue their n that sin, and don’t deal with it.


That’s the point.


Jesus teaches His disciples what to do.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17


These words that are bolder are conjunctions.

A conjunction ties what was said together with what is about to be said.


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’


And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.




JPT

 

[unclesilas]

This is such a comfort knowing that our LORD prayed for us , I feel so touched by this...

John 17:20-23 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away..

That's a great passage, possibly mailmandan will do an exegesis of it as he undoubtledly thrives on the subject:


My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them(believers) may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as(AS) we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

How can believers be in Father and Son as they are in each other?
How can believers be one as(AS) Father and Son are one?

 

[dcontroversal]

IRREVOCABLE.............either the salvation losers cannot read, willfully reject this word or are as dense as lead........

THE gifts and calling of GOD are IRREVOCABLE

Salvation is free GIFT of GRACE....it is IRREVOCABLE.........

The deceivers say and teach it is revocable..........false!!

 

[safswan]

I agree that it is dual nature, what you fail to realize is that flesh will still sin and the source of our salvation comes from the righteous life of Jesus and not by our human effort.

And with this I do agree and said as much in the study "Justification".(post #82364)

Those that fall into sin have not learned to walk in the Spirit and have once again been overcome by the flesh which can and does happen, and God does deal with us when this happens.

Yet they are still justified and will stay justified because they have the righteousness of Jesus imputed to them.

And what is the course one should take in this instance?Paul asked:

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"(Romans 6:1,2)

Which implies we may be in serious trouble if we continue in sin.The writer to the Hebrews speaks of the how God deals with us when in sin and says:

"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:"


John also writes:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."(I John 2:1,2)


What if we continue in sin and do not fully repent?What if we do not make straight paths for our feet but are turned out of the way?And isn't the injunction by John,for us not to sin the,imperative of the statement above rather than the fact that we have an advocate who can remove them when we do?

 

[UnderGrace]

unclesilas
Active member
#86,517

@unclesilas

I am wondering why you switched up the scripture from the one she quoted.

Very suspect that you would do that, are we dialoging with someone who lacks integrity?

Rosemaryx said:


This is such a comfort knowing that our LORD prayed for us , I feel so touched by this...

John 17:20-23 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away..

That's a great passage, possibly mailmandan will do an exegesis of it as he undoubtledly thrives on the subject:


My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them(believers) may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as(AS) we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

How can believers be in Father and Son as they are in each other?
How can believers be one as(AS) Father and Son are one?