Not By Works

[Hevosmies]

Does anyone else have this in their lower right hand corner? Once again, it's another annoying pop up that I don't want..

View attachment 194084

Good morning dear.

I dont have that yet, but its probably about to "POP UP" soon (pun intended).

 

[gb9]

View attachment 194086

good morning to you to! hope you have a blessed day!

 

[safswan]

He is referring to real faith. Faith cannot be false, if it was false it could not be faith as defined by scripture.

Exactly.

 

[safswan]

No they are not teaching the same thing...two different sides of the coin.......and your last line is idiotic

Your difficulty is obvious.Notice what was said:

"When all of Paul's writings are considered and James is understood properly then they are both teaching the same thing."

And your response:

"No they are not teaching the same thing...two different sides of the coin"

Really?Do you even think about what you type?

You are correct about the last line however as it aptly describes your and many other's method of using the scriptures.

 

[safswan]

I do read all of Paul and there is no such thing as dual nature of justification...that is a figment of your overactive imagination.......one is either JUSTIFIED or they are NOT....end of story

The fact is,after being declared righteous,one is not expected to continue in sin.Do you teach that one who does will still be saved?Paul teaches no such thing.(Romans 6:1,2;12:1,2;I Corinthians 6:9-11)

Answer the question with the use of the scriptures and you will see the truth.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Yes, especially when the lost sheep represented the Publicans and sinners in that passage. Jesus was answering the Pharisee's murdering about Him receiving them by stating that His very purpose in coming was to seek them...and us

The sheep represent those who believe in Christ and are justified by faith.

IOW, the sheep represent the Church.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them,

All 100 sheep belong to the shepherd.


The 99 remain justified.

The 1 who wandered away and became lost, returned to being a sinner in need of repentance.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



Jesus is teaching His disciples what they need to do, to restore one of His sheep back to Him if it becomes lost.



Do the lost need salvation?




JPT

 

[safswan]

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(1Jn 3:7 KJV)

The clause "even as he is righteous" is a direct comparison to Jesus Christ. How was He righteous? He did righteousness.

Jesus testified, "There is none good but GOD." (Mark 10:18)

And again He saith, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
(Joh 14:10 KJV)

So how was Jesus righteous?
By GOD's indwelling Spirit He performed righteousness.

How are we righteous?
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(1Jn 3:7 KJV)

For It is God that worketh in you both to will and do HIS good pleasure. (Phil 2:13)

And if we do not righteousness after believing are we his?Will we still be saved?

 

[justpassinthrough]

When all of Paul's writings are considered and James is understood properly then they are both teaching the same thing."

Yes sir.

Very true.


They both taught the same principle of faith.


The obedience of faith.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


The “work” Abraham did was to obey God to offer his son Isaac on the altar.


Paul calls this the obedience of faith.



But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26





JPT

 

[safswan]

Amen!

Real Faith comes from GOD through Christ.

It is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ liveth in us. And the LIFE we now live in the flesh we live by the FAITH of Christ. For we have put on Christ. (Gal 2:20,3:22)


But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the word in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of Stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth. .
(Rom 10:4-8 KJV)

And notice what was the proof that Israel as a whole did not believe/have faith:

"But as to Israel he saith, All the day long did I spread out my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."(Romans 10:21)

 

[Macabeus]

I understood.
Macabeus if I say "Hammer of Praise"

Does that bring anything to mind?

Judah Maccabeus? That's who my screen name is named after. I misspelled it and didn't know how to edit it.

 

[Macabeus]

The sheep represent those who believe in Christ and are justified by faith.

IOW, the sheep represent the Church.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them,

All 100 sheep belong to the shepherd.


The 99 remain justified.

The 1 who wandered away and became lost, returned to being a sinner in need of repentance.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



Jesus is teaching His disciples what they need to do, to restore one of His sheep back to Him if it becomes lost.



Do the lost need salvation?




JPT

In Luke 15, the key to interpreting the three parables is found in the first three verses. The publicans and sinners HAD BEEN lost, but now have come to Jesus and are found. These parables are in reply to the Pharisees murmerring and grumbling about Jesus receiving sinners
Go back and read Luke 15:1-3

Always interpret scripture according to context

PostScript. The post was about Luke 15, not the lost sheep parable in other Gospels

Blessings

 

[safswan]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

*So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. James' concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

Your avoidance of the question I asked is the reason for your continued misunderstanding of James.You are adding to scripture by using the word "claim". The context of the passage supports no such thing.I ask again:

"Was Abraham's faith, "mere" or not, "saving faith" ? Why then did he have to be justified by works as James says?(James 2:21)Was Abraham also claiming to have faith?

 

[TruthTalk]

View attachment 194086

Same here as decon Lady_blue, no new popup yet.

Good news about the other popup because RoboOp
took it down with many thanks to you

How about more Coffee and Doughnuts maybe help.

 

[Macabeus]

And if we do not righteousness after believing are we his?Will we still be saved?

Faith works by love if you truly love God and love your brother, you are "doing righteousness" But let let us not love in word only, but in deed and truth John said

We will not be absolutely sinless or infallible. God expects us to walk according to what we have received. Some Christians are further along, so God requires more. To whom much is given, much is required

But if you neglect what light is given you, God may not give more light.

 

[safswan]

James is not teaching a works based justification before God no matter how much you twist it and or peddle your false religion....and while I am there...You are leaving off the word "THAT" which is applied to the faith James is speaking of........but hey...I fully expect you to reject and ride your horse to the many group that JESUS speaks to.......

THEREFORE we CONCLUDE that a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH without the deeds/works of the LAW

I suggest honesty with the above verse and quit pitting JAMES against the bible.....in the end it will take you some place you do not wish to go......

Your misleading statements in relation to my comments is obvious.I have quoted Jesus and Paul in support of what James is clearly teaching rather than your one sided interpretation and yet still you claim I am, "pitting JAMES against the bible". Again I urge;do not use the scriptures as the devil did with Jesus as this will lead to your downfall.

 

[safswan]

Your problem is you are peddling religion and not being honest with verb tense, verbiage, context and the truth......

Therefore we CONCLUDE that a MAN IS JUSTIFIED by faith without the DEEDS/WORKS of the LAW.......

You remind me of a past member that was banned......you speak the same way, same style and use the same verbiage............................

And you continue to pattern the devil's method of using the scriptures.That one verse is not the only one in the bible.Read the study, Justification,which addresses all the verses like the one above and their context and which shows how works apply to the life of a true child of God.

You claim:

"You remind me of a past member that was banned......you speak the same way, same style and use the same verbiage.."

I guess this is what you are hoping for.Could you provide proof of the above?

 

[safswan]

You obviously have no understanding of the word disciple....and or SALVATION.............look the words up and understand that they are not the same word and how the first FOLLOWS the second...one is BY FAITH the other a process of transformation and daily sanctification.............but in your case you conflate both into some pseudo religious soup that taints both

The import of the passage in question is lost on you.The person who believes is saved.But is this the end of the matter? No!! Jesus says they are only truly His if they continue in His word.Your erroneous doctrine would have them believe but then not continue in His word,not be disciples but still be saved.Preposterous!!

Do you understand the difference between the case of the thief on the cross and that of the woman caught in adultery?

 

[TruthTalk]

Your avoidance of the question I asked is the reason for your continued misunderstanding of James.You are adding to scripture by using the word "claim". The context of the passage supports no such thing.I ask again:

"Was Abraham's faith, "mere" or not, "saving faith" ? Why then did he have to be justified by works as James says?(James 2:21 )Was Abraham also claiming to have faith?

James is speaking to a "living faith" and the offering of Abraham son was proof, "before man" that his faith was a real living faith, but "not before God"

If there s any boasting about "works" it is the works of our Savior Jesus Christ, works do not save or keep you saved only God can who is; "the author and finisher of our faith."

Abraham was justified by his works before man; "but not before God", most reasonable people can see this truth.

Hebrews12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God

Romans 4:2
If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God
3)For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”…

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"You remind me of a past member that was banned......you speak the same way, same style and use the same verbiage.."

So let me get this straight, you have been here 3 weeks, and your accusing another member who has been here for 6 years of being banned?

 

[TruthTalk]

So let me get this straight, you have been here 3 weeks, and your accusing another member who has been here for 6 years of being banned?

Hi E-gratefull, I was just going over the same post as you are and if you take a second look I believe that "Decon" is saying that, "safswan" "is the person who was previously banned", not our feend Decon. The part that you read in the post was safswan quoting decon, check it out.....