Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Your preacher friend is pretty vague given the seriousness of the topic. He really "omitted" some very important Biblical facts about what the Scriptures teach about "False Preachers".
#1. Paul describes who these will be to a tee. the article didn't think his words were relevant enough to quote.
2 Cor. 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
This is important because false preachers will "come in Christ's Name" and claim they are led by Him.
He also "omitted" another important Biblical Fact and that is "MANY" will follow these ministers of righteousness.
Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
This would be the false religion led by those who disguises themselves as "ministers of righteousness". So the false preachers and those who follow him are "MANY". Your preacher friend omitted this important Biblical Fact as well.
One might think, "Why would "many" want to walk a path that leads to destruction"? But you see, those false teachers who lead these paths are not telling their followers "Come follow me on the path to destruction". They are declaring "Come follow us on the Path to eternal life". So these "many" believe they are saved, or on the path to life, but they are deceived. They call Jesus Lord, Lord, but they practice "Lawlessness", something an Apostle of Christ would never teach or do. As he said: "You will know them by their works".
In contrast the Path Jesus walked and promoted is not a "broad" path. It is narrow and difficult.
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
This truth is confirmed throughout the Bible. Noah (FEW) humbled himself to God, while "Many" created their own way.
Abraham (FEW) believed in God, while Sodom (Many) rejected Him.
Caleb (FEW) trusted in God, while the congregation of the Lord (many) did not.
Zechariahs (FEW) believed in and obeyed God, while the Mainstream preachers of his time, Pharisees (MANY) created their own way.
It will be the same for us today. There will be a "broad" Path, with "MANY" who call Him Lord, Lord, led by preachers who claim to be "apostles of Christ" and ministers of righteousness who declare "Come follow us on the Path to eternal life". This religion will be a great religion which all the nations of the earth will do business with.
Rev. 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Todays religions have created High Days, like Christmas, which is revered by billions of folks world wide. Just in America folks will spend over 1 billion dollars in Christmas trees alone. Almost double that in decorations. World wide the number is staggering. And it's done every year.
But The Feasts of the Christ, like His Sabbath that He created for man, His Feasts which show His Salvation plan, get no mention. Very little attention, especially in America. I find this extraordinary.
That man, who come in Christ's Name, can create a High Day, place it on ancient pagan holy day, place Christ's name on it and it becomes the greatest religious high Day on the planet.
But Jesus, the Word of God which became Flesh, can create Sabbaths and feast days which show His Salvation plan, starting with Passover, and He is rejected and ignored by the very same folks.
I guess there isn't much money to be made on the Christ's Holy Days, so man just created their own.
I think we should stop "living by" all these "other" religious voices and start "living by" the Word of God as Jesus instructed.
He agrees.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
-
1
- Show all
Hi ReturnToGod, wouldn't it be fair to say that Grace and Faith are working together to bring salvation to all. God's gift of grace being His unmerited mercy toward true believers and a measure of faith given to all that is also a gift from God. We are saved by "Grace", through "Faith", I see this as a horse and carriage bringing together of our salvation, Saved by, "Grace - through - Faith"
I believe our heavenly birth, being born again, is through Grace plus Faith working together and becoming an adopted Child of God is a gift from Him.
Ephesians2:8
"For it is "by grace" you have been saved, "through faith", and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God."
I believe our heavenly birth, being born again, is through Grace plus Faith working together and becoming an adopted Child of God is a gift from Him.
Ephesians2:8
"For it is "by grace" you have been saved, "through faith", and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God."
-
5
-
1
- Show all
E
You may be forgetting "sins of omission", I need any forgiveness available especially when it comes to senior moments and forgetfulness or is that redundant....
God bless!
God bless!
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Hi Studyman, dear old mom use to say "give credit where credit is due." Author Colin Smith covered a reasonable amount of information dealing with "False Teachers", and his article was based on one verse from the bible, 2Peter2:1
While you continue to criticize the evangelical community around you it only confirms to the rest of this forum that you are the exact mirror image of what the Pharisaical community was all about;
Quote/definition: "practicing or advocating strict observance of external forms and ceremonies of religion or conduct without regard to the spirit; self-righteous; hypocritical.
One word Studyman; "Repent"
Attribute: Author Colin Smith
Article: Seven Traits of a False Teacher
Colin Smith, (MPhil, London School of Theology) is senior pastor of , a multi-campus church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, and his ministry extends through his radio program Unlocking the Bible. He is also committed to mentoring next generation pastors, missionaries, and church-planters through The Orchard Network. Colin and his wife, Karen, have two married sons and five granddaughters.
While you continue to criticize the evangelical community around you it only confirms to the rest of this forum that you are the exact mirror image of what the Pharisaical community was all about;
Quote/definition: "practicing or advocating strict observance of external forms and ceremonies of religion or conduct without regard to the spirit; self-righteous; hypocritical.
One word Studyman; "Repent"
Attribute: Author Colin Smith
Article: Seven Traits of a False Teacher
Colin Smith, (MPhil, London School of Theology) is senior pastor of , a multi-campus church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, and his ministry extends through his radio program Unlocking the Bible. He is also committed to mentoring next generation pastors, missionaries, and church-planters through The Orchard Network. Colin and his wife, Karen, have two married sons and five granddaughters.
-
3
-
1
- Show all
You obviously do not KNOW THIS, but YOU are repeating an ARMENIAN LIE about what we BELIEVE as Conservative Evangelical type of CHRISTIANS. YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FOGGIEST ABOUT WHAT WE BELIEVE.
WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR STATISTICS ? ? ? I AM CONVINCED, IT IS IN YOUR IGNORANCE, YOU MADE THEM UP IN YOUR OWN MIND.
FACT: NONE of the TRUE BORN AGAIN EVANGELICAL TYPE OF CHRISTIANS BELIEVE what you just said, and most of those who do not teach BORN AGAIN as a reality, WHERE you can have that experience HERE and NOW, do not believe it either. That LIE was perpetrated by Armenians that NEVER BOTHERED to get the TRUE FACTS FROM CALVINIST, and those of us that believe LESS than the 5 Points of CALVINISM. I only believe 3 of them.
You can TRASH CAN your WHOLE THEORY about what we believe, AND LEARN TO QUOTE US ACCURATELY FROM NOW ON. Because I will give you the TRUE FACTS ABOUT OUR BELIEFS.
I am NOT going to give you Scripture, because I DO NOT WANT TO DEBATE YOU. You can go to ANY conservative evangelical Church's Web Site where they publish a Doctrinal Statement of FAITH with verse references, and you will see the LIES that YOU have been professing about our BELIEFS in ERROR. You can consider this is the First Warning, on the way to my permanent IGNORE LIST, and You only get TWO warnings (Titus 3:10).
<><.🕇.><>
WHAT WE BELIEVE:
We Believe the BIBLE is the Inerrant Word of GOD in the original manuscripts, and as such it is the ULTIMATE AUTHORITY in the Christians Life.
We believe ALL MEN and WOMEN are BORN with a Sin Nature that they inherited from ADAM. After the Age of Accountability they must repent and receive Christ as LORD, meaning Master, OUT OF THE PURE LOVE IN THEIR HEART. GOD PLANTED THAT LOVE there by having the HOLY SPIRIT Pour HIS LOVE directly into Our Hearts, as HE ENTERED OUR HUMAN BODY where HE resides in the HEART (Human Spirit). AT THAT VERY MOMENT, YOUR Human Spirit is ETERNALLY SAVED and ETERNAL LIFE BEGINS, AS SALVATION IS COMPLETE BECAUSE OF WHAT OUR LORD DID ON THE CROSS. GOD's LOVE in the Heart of Man will Sprout Producing the SAME KIND OF LOVE THAT HE PLANTED IN OUR HEARTS. That LOVE FOR GOD and the Brethren, is Proof that OUR SALVATION WAS REAL, and GOD's LOVE IN US, WILL Produce an ongoing lifestyle of WALKING in Obedience to HIM, becoming more and more like CHRIST. That process is called Sanctification, and without it is Proof of NEVER BEING REALLY BORN AGAIN. Therefore FALLING AWAY without ever Returning like the Prodigal Son, is ONLY PROOF that they were NEVER BORN AGAIN. As we spiritually MATURE, by studying the WORD, and the HOLY SPIRIT teaches us ALL THINGS, we WILL reach out to OTHERS, and LOVE GOD, the very works we were SAVED (PAST TENSE) to do.
<><.🕇.><>
Like I said, you can NOW stop peddling your ARMENIAN LIES that you have been TAUGHT. Maybe even RESPECT OUR BELIEFS, and learn to love us. I do LOVE you, only I PRAY YOU WILL COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.
I would say that works do not have a bearing on salvation.
If we are saved by grace through faith and not of works then works do not save.
As a result of salvation by grace through faith then we walk in the works prepared for us from the beginning of time.
However our works will be judged which Paul addressed in Corinthians.
Bad works and good works. Yet we will still be saved.
Logically you say that if works have no bearing on salvation (and I'm assuming that you believe works save here) then one can sin as much as they want, refuse to be led by the Holy Spirit and remain saved.
Paul addressed this in Romans.
What he addressed was the misunderstanding of grace.
If sin abounds so does grace so we can do what we want.
God forbid he says.
Yes grace covers sin but to use grace in that way is not right.
You ask "Can a person who accepts Jesus sin as much as they want and remain saved"
"Most would say yes"
I would say no and I'm sure everyone here would say the same.
Why?
Because if they came across someone who professed faith in Jesus and said such a thing as you think they would say then they would be corrected per scripture.
Faith is not an intellectual belife.
Not the faith as described and explained in the Bible.
A true genuine faith in Jesus will lead to obedience.
Fruit will manifest, for some more than others. But fruit will become evident.
So I say works have no bearing on salvation.
Genuine faith has the bearing on salvation.
Works will be judged for genuine belivers.
And as you say "Faith that results in love which leads to obedience"
If it ain't done out of love then it means diddly squat.
It's worthless.
If we are saved by grace through faith and not of works then works do not save.
As a result of salvation by grace through faith then we walk in the works prepared for us from the beginning of time.
However our works will be judged which Paul addressed in Corinthians.
Bad works and good works. Yet we will still be saved.
Logically you say that if works have no bearing on salvation (and I'm assuming that you believe works save here) then one can sin as much as they want, refuse to be led by the Holy Spirit and remain saved.
Paul addressed this in Romans.
What he addressed was the misunderstanding of grace.
If sin abounds so does grace so we can do what we want.
God forbid he says.
Yes grace covers sin but to use grace in that way is not right.
You ask "Can a person who accepts Jesus sin as much as they want and remain saved"
"Most would say yes"
I would say no and I'm sure everyone here would say the same.
Why?
Because if they came across someone who professed faith in Jesus and said such a thing as you think they would say then they would be corrected per scripture.
Faith is not an intellectual belife.
Not the faith as described and explained in the Bible.
A true genuine faith in Jesus will lead to obedience.
Fruit will manifest, for some more than others. But fruit will become evident.
So I say works have no bearing on salvation.
Genuine faith has the bearing on salvation.
Works will be judged for genuine belivers.
And as you say "Faith that results in love which leads to obedience"
If it ain't done out of love then it means diddly squat.
It's worthless.
-
4
- Show all
Hi ReturnToGod, the "Gospel" is called "Good News" it is not called; "Good News and be faithful to "keep salvation." We are saved and kept being saved by the "Power of God" not by our own strength. "By his own strength no man shall prevail." 1Samuel2:9
The security of the believer is a common theme throughout scripture; "Who will separate us from the love of God.", Romans8:35, the answer is nobody can.
1Samuel2:9
He guards the steps of His faithful ones, but the wicked perish in darkness; for by his own strength shall no man prevail.
More than Conquerors: Romans:8:33-35
33) Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. 35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
Romans8:28-30
28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
The security of the believer is a common theme throughout scripture; "Who will separate us from the love of God.", Romans8:35, the answer is nobody can.
1Samuel2:9
He guards the steps of His faithful ones, but the wicked perish in darkness; for by his own strength shall no man prevail.
More than Conquerors: Romans:8:33-35
33) Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. 35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
Romans8:28-30
28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Good morning all...This is the day the LORD has made , let us rejoice and be glad in it...
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Have you figured out by now that practically no one listens to, pays any attention to or believes your peddled Cainology.........you do not have the truth man and the very shampoo Jesus you rail on is the very same false Jesus you peddle by you quagmire of works, law keeping, commandment keeping drivel that you spew!
-
1
- Show all
