Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Please may I ask what Church do you go too. The reason that I ask, you really need a very GOOD Bible Teaching Church. If some of the stuff you came up were taught to you from a pulpit, you need to find different Church. I can help with that.

In post #76,636 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-3832#post-3780224 I asked Suzy if she was a Mormon, but never received an answer. What made me question this was when she said - "We see we have to change, repent and be baptized so we are baptized and by the laying on of hands receive the H. S"

 

[dcontroversal]

As I already explained, when we believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ unto salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him. The fruit of that would be a life inspired by such surrender. Cause and effect.

In John 17:3, we read - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a personal relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. *John 6:40 - For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many so called wonderful works that these many people set out to accomplish in a vain effort to receive eternal life based on the merits of their performance.

There are many unbelievers in various false religions and cults (who even claim to be Christians) that are trusting in a works based salvation. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, the church of Christ (Campbellism) adherents, Roman Catholics just to name some. No such thing, huh? Get real!

I'm trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation and not in my works. What are you trusting in? BTW I am married and have been for several years now. So what effort on your part are you trusting in for salvation? You already dodged two questions that I previously asked you and I would prefer answers to my questions instead of further questions from you and continued psychobabble.

Amen brother.......keep swinging......

 

[dcontroversal]

In post #76,636 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-3832#post-3780224 I asked Suzy if she was a Mormon, but never received an answer. What made me question this was when she said - "We see we have to change, repent and be baptized so we are baptized and by the laying on of hands receive the H. S"

AMEN and not to mention the idiocy of not being born again spiritually......that is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard......that which is BORN of SPIRIT IS SPIRIT

It seems that many have no understanding of a "be" verb........

 

[dcontroversal]

In post #76,636 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-3832#post-3780224 I asked Suzy if she was a Mormon, but never received an answer. What made me question this was when she said - "We see we have to change, repent and be baptized so we are baptized and by the laying on of hands receive the H. S"

Good luck getting an answer....Most Mormons refuse to acknowledge the fact they they are Mormons....embarrassed and ashamed I guess...............

 

[dcontroversal]

Oh my you have fallen for one the FALSE TEACHERS.

The HOLY TRINITY IS REAL! He is NOT THE STAR WARS FORCE.


NO! IT SAYS THE SPIRIT OF MAN IS IN HIS HEART, and the Mind is the SOUL.

Here is the KJV calling SOUL is the Greek WORD

Luke 1:46 (KJV)
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,






Here is JESUS that Calls the mind of a man his SOUL.



Luke 12:16-20 (ESV)
16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully,
17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’
18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’
20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’

PROOF THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A HE:


Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
and of the Holy Spirit,

John 14:16-17 (ESV)
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells
with you and will be in you.

John 14:26 (ESV)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 15:26 (ESV)
26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

1 Corinthians 2:13 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

1 Peter 1:11 (HCSB)
11 They inquired into what time or what circumstances the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when He testified in advance to the messianic sufferings and the glories that would follow.

Revelation 22:17 (YLT)
17 And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing--let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting--let him come; and he who is willing--let him take the water of life freely.

1 John 5:6 (HCSB)
6 Jesus Christ—He is the One who came by water and blood, not by water only, but by water and by blood. And the Spirit is the One who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

She probably got thrown off the other board that she "moderated" or could not stand the heat that came her way from all the fallacies she embraces and peddles like a street organ player with a dancing monkey in Calcutta......fallacies such as....

a. Not born spiritually from above even though it is clearly given in scripture
b. God is not three in one even though it is clearly given in scripture
c. Fill in the blank............even though it is clearly given in scripture

 

[dcontroversal]

Because salvation is a lifelong process that God guides you thru helping you to develop His character in you. From conversion to
resurrection!

Wrong again........In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith, and that NOT of YOURSELF, it is the gift of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast.............

Do you understand past tense......obviously NOT...........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All the commandments are e
The royal law is the ten commandments., the Ten commandments are summed up in the Two , love toward God (4) love toward neighbor (6) THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE A LIVING LAW, THEY DIRECT EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES. We are human beings and fail, that is where grace comes in, the forgiveness of sin thru Christ's sacrifice

The ten commands can not direct your life. For one, they do not tell you HOW to obey them, and second, they do not tell you EVERY way you can break them. If they could we woudl never have the seromon on the mount where jesus attacked the pharisees who obeyed the letter, but could and did not obey the spirit (if you look at a woman, it is adultry) The ten commands do not tell you that.

Paul told us WHY they were given, To PROVE you are sinner. Because NO ONE can obey them

Living a righteous life far exceeds obeying ten commands. If thats all you do great,, But christian living is MUCH MUCH more than that.. We shoud be focused on LOVEING Others, Not worrying about trying to live by a set of rules (which is focus on self). Thats what the jews could not get. And jesus tried to tell them that, and they crucified him for it.

[qupte]That's odd I sure thought when they said "don't commit adultery" etc that was really telling us what not to do and also what to do Such a twisting and turning to find a way not to obey God LOL![/QUOTE]

This is cold sis. Did I tell you or anyone else who can go commit adultry or live in sin? I did not. This is a lie spread by many if not all of legalistic churches who try to attack grace believers by saying they want to excuse their sin.

I am trying to share the way to heaven is not by obeing this law. Which we havefailed to do anyway, Thus it is ALREADy to late to try to reach heaven by beying a law you already failed to keep.

Moses told the people. They must obey every word (every jt ant tittel so to speak) and if they failed just once, they are under a curse. Paul shares with us, what thet curse was, Death. (The penalty of sin is death) James agreed, when he said if we break even one part we are guilty of all. We will never get to heaven by being obedient to a law we already failed..

We are saved by the cross. And faith in Gods promises.. Once we are saved, We learn to be like christ, and be obedient to his wished. BY LEARNING to love as he loved.. which was jesus point, In these two commands are all the law and prophets fulfilled

We become sanctified by LOVE, Which AUTOmatically obeys commands weihtout even thinking of them, ie, if you love you will not sin against a person or God it is when you fail to love when you sin) and the more we learn to love, the more like Christ we become.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

DC Hollering doesn't make it any better, still no proof just noise!

If you are born again you are spirit and I don't think you are, This is not hard to understand the same word is translated both ways the translators chose which way to use it and sometimes they got it wrong, not only here but also in other places. We are not born of the Spirit at this time, we are flesh and blood and I just bet you are too! Do you have a Strong's , if so look it up, study show yourself approved to God!

If not take your spirit body and fly over here and show me , then I will believe it but not if you are still flesh!

If your not born of the spirit, Your not saved, In this life, or the next.

Instead of telling someone else they need to study, i think you need to study what spiritul birth it.

It is not the ability to fly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But mine was not I was talking abt people who have their part taken out of Book of Life, Sorry I thought you were talking to me! Rev 22:19

R

Were you ever on End Times? That was a rowdy group at times. People get very upset when their beliefs get questioned, I expect it

lets just make sure we are not like them

But also remember, Even the apostled got mad when people where twisting gods word and leading people to hell.. so there can be spiritual anger agains tghose who would lead people astray (concerning the gospel. Not end times stuff, or even how old the earth is.. etc

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The " ability " to faithe is the gift , faithing or the act of applying Faith , ( Pisteuo ) is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , something we do with the gifted ability .

We also use that gifted ability for hundreds ofother acts of pisteuo that have nothing to do with God .

When you got into your car today , did you check to make sure your fuel tank or fuel line wasn't leaking ? No ! You fulfilled pisteuo , you performed an act ( started the car ) , based upon a belief ( that the unseen fuel line and fuel tank is working ) , sustained by a confidence. ( That I will drive the car forward ) . We fulfill 100 's of acts of pisteuo like this all day long , and most of the time the object of Faith is unseen and a life depends on it .

Did you check the air in your room last night before you went to sleep ?

Did you make sure the driver that had the red light , while you went through the intersection on the green light was going to stop ?

I could do this all-night . We are beings that are created to faithe . But because the English language doesn't have a verb form of Faith like the Greek does , and it was then mistranslated , it's meaning ortrue understanding has been lost .

Faithing or pisteuo as it relates to the living God is , commitment ( with a surrendered life ) reliance upon ( with a surrendered life ) to commit unto ( with a surrendered life ) a personal surrender to Him ( a surrendered life ) and a life inspired by such surrender ( making all our little daily decisions that show God we truly have surrendered our lives to Him and that our lives are nolonger ours , but His now .

Once again, can you show this in proof.

In front of the whole chatrrom, i am calling you one more time to show poof that strongs ever put this in one of his dictionaries.

Failure to do so will lead to refusal to interact. (Of course youhave yet to answer me any time, because YOU KNOW YOU CAN”T. So I doubt you will respond yet again, but other people will finally see your ulterior motive and hopefully stop resonding also. Because they see your true self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why oh Why are so many focused on Sin ?

Jesus died for the sins of the world !

Just Believe the Gospel for this the dispensation of Grace ( 1st Cor 15 1-4 )

Trust Jesus , and what he accomplished for us !!

Amen, we shoud be focusin on loving others. When we do this, S=the sin issue takes care of itself.

If we focus to much on not sinning, Our focus is ALWAYS taken off others,, abnd put on self. And we miss out on so much God has for us, and come across as proud judgmental people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok , let's see what we agree on .

Do you agree that pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT

Do you agree that pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Faith ?

Do you agree with the Vines Greek dictionarys definition of pisteuo ? " A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ?"

This is not the vines defenition.

And you have failed to prove it.

Some proof would help you greatly.

Otherwise your just spouting your own belief..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yes , VCO I do know the difference between soul and spirit. Its surprises me you do tho , That also brings us to another false teaching, the Trinity people believe the Holy Spirit is a person a Being , but they are wrong. Gods spirit is His Mind ,His force,His whole being, likewise the spirit of man is his mind, intellect,his whole being.When a person recieves the HS then Gods spirit joins with our human spirit and He reveals spiritual things to us. We then have the mind of Christ IN us, not just with us but now in us and we can understand spiritual things a person without the HS cannot. BUT that human spirit is not immortal, I think God will use each of our own unique human spirit to resurrect us individually! Where do you get the idea that this makes our human spirit immortal?.
Gods mind joined with our mind gives us spiritual knowledge and understanding, not immortality!

This is interesting and more to be said and looked into Im sure . Back tomorrow to do that if you like and TLW.

OH wow, who led you astray

 

[TruthTalk]

Once again, can you show this in proof.

In front of the whole chatrrom, i am calling you one more time to show poof that strongs ever put this in one of his dictionaries.

Failure to do so will lead to refusal to interact. (Of course youhave yet to answer me any time, because YOU KNOW YOU CAN”T. So I doubt you will respond yet again, but other people will finally see your ulterior motive and hopefully stop resonding also. Because they see your true self.

Hi E-g, I put Pisteo on ignore because the false doctrine that he spews here is like drinking in poison.

God bless you for preaching the true gospel

 

[gb9]

Hi E-g, I put Pisteo on ignore because the false doctrine that he spews here is like drinking in poison.

God bless you for preaching the true gospel

anyone who makes claims, then produce no evidence to back up what they say, are frauds.

truth is easy to find. deception , you have to work at it.

beware of those who push their double - secret translations and definitions , and refuse to show them.

 

[TruthTalk]

anyone who makes claims, then produce no evidence to back up what they say, are frauds.

truth is easy to find. deception , you have to work at it.

beware of those who push their double - secret translations and definitions , and refuse to show them.

You are correct gb9, I believe at a point in time in the life of Pisteo and Studyman they had an encounter with the true gospel and my have even been a follower of Jesus. But that obviously came to an end and a "New" counterfeit doctrine tickled their ears and they departed the narrow way.

Studyman and his counterfeit gospel is the creation of his own mind. The word of God came to him obviously but never took root and so he began his journey creating his own counterfeit gospel, "The Christ",

This is exactly how cults and false teachings come into being; examples like Jahovah's witness, Mormons, Mary Baker Eddies, Christian Science, which is neither Christian nor Scientific, plus the "New age Movement.

 

[Pisteuo]

I believe that if someone accepted forgiveness from Jesus, even if that someone went into a coma without a chance to perform any works whatsoever, that someone is still saved

to back this up, a prisoner next to Jesus said "have mercy on me" and Jesus said to him "together, you will be with me in paradise"

Ah , one little thing you're forgetting . Christ hadn't finished the new covenant yet . He could still do things He wouldn't do" after " His death and resurrection .

The thief on the cross didn't need to perform or fulfill the new covenant ( Grace through Faith ) He saw Christ , he new the things Christ was doing , He didn't need Faith in Christ , Christ was " a fact " to Him .

what Christ did with the thief on the cross was done before the sacrifice was made . I think He couldnt do that after His sacrifice was completed .

 

[Pisteuo]

Did I leave the impression that we fulfill the law? if so sorry, we most certainly do not! Christ fulfilled the law that was one of the reasons He came to earth, He showed the perfect example of living by the law, of keeping the Ten Commandments in the spirit . He showed us how in Matt 5 and also showed us He came to fulfill the law by living it fully. I most certainly do not or can. But He did as our example of fulfilling the law, of keeping it to the full, not doing away with it!

I have no questions

, I agree with you just not as good with words LOL! I am pretty plain and simple I'm afraid.

A calling we respond to and as we respond He shows us more truth and if we keep on responding, believe, repent, be baptized and receive the HS then we start out on that process of salvation . You put it very well Pisteuo The requirements of baptism and laying on of hands are required for the HS to be given, very few exceptions! The Sower and the Seeds parable is such a good way of showing the calling God gives and the ways of rejecting that calling or accepting and growing on the good ground!

Thanks for your input!

Thanks Suzy .

 

[Pisteuo]

AMEN and not to mention the idiocy of not being born again spiritually......that is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard......that which is BORN of SPIRIT IS SPIRIT

It seems that many have no understanding of a "be" verb........

Ya mean like Faithing or pisteuo the verb lol !

 

[Pisteuo]

This is not the vines defenition.

And you have failed to prove it.

Some proof would help you greatly.

Otherwise your just spouting your own belief..

That's word for word from the Vines Expository .

" A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth ."

The Strong's , " pisteuo means NOT just to believe ."

Do you accept these definitions ?