Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I see the Lawyers and Pharisees are still peddling law....law that condemns and makes none righteous....

Do you guys keep the law....NOPE --->Your guilty...........end of story!

 

[gb9]

yet Paul also said:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."


Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."


Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."


Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

EIther you misunderstand Paul or he is a double talker.

Messiah makes it clear:


Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."


Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”


Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Paul said a lot of things. you ( and others ) are only interested in the things that you can pluck out of context and twist in sda/ Hebrew roots junk.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 6:16-17, “Thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 49:13-14, “This way of theirs is folly to them, Yet their followers are pleased with their words. Selah. Like sheep they shall be laid in She’ol; Death shall shepherd them; And the upright rule over them in the morning; And their form is consumed in She’ol, Far from their dwelling.”[/FONT]

 

[loyaldisciple]

Go ahead and put yourself back under the Law. But if you do, Paul warned you're placing yourself under a curse.

"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” (Galatians 3:10-11)

Why? Because we are under a New Covenant. The Old one is "Obsolete". (Hebrews 8:13)

What would you say to Paul who said, " I myself am not under the Law." (1 Corinthians 9:20)?

When it comes to works and faith, if you think I'm pitting one against the other and choosing only one of them, then you have misunderstood my position. I am full aware of the value of faith. I am also full aware of the value of works. What I'm saying is they both hold great value for a Christian just as the Bible says. To choose only one is not wise according to the scriptures that I read. Many scriptures speak of the value of good works in tandem with faith. I believe it a misreading of scripture to claim only one is important. My position is not one of picking one over the other. My position is to understand the importance of both.

MATTHEW 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[dcontroversal]

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the works/deeds of the law.

 

[loyaldisciple]

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the works/deeds of the law.

No Sir. That is what you have concluded, not we. Others do have a right to their interpretation as well, you know.

 

[gb9]

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."


Jeremiah 6:16-17, “Thus said יהוה, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.”


Psalm 49:13-14, “This way of theirs is folly to them, Yet their followers are pleased with their words. Selah. Like sheep they shall be laid in She’ol; Death shall shepherd them; And the upright rule over them in the morning; And their form is consumed in She’ol, Far from their dwelling.”

Jeremiah 6 is about the Babylonian invasion of Jerusalem , the people being warned about it. it is not a warning against not keeping the law.

another Hebrew roots fail.

 

[dcontroversal]

No Sir. That is what you have concluded, not we. Others do have a right to their interpretation as well, you know.

Try again deceiver...Paul was inspired to write that....try the bible it will set your free from your false dogma....

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jeremiah 6 is about the Babylonian invasion of Jerusalem , the people being warned about it. it is not a warning against not keeping the law.

another Hebrew roots fail.

You see the post above yours...the deceiver denied what Paul wrote and accused me of coming up with it...these false preachers and deceivers as as thick as thieves....Nothing more than law keeping drivel from men who in their mind actually think they keep the law.....hilariously sad!

 

[loyaldisciple]

Try again deceiver...Paul was inspired to write that....try the bible it will set your free from your false dogma....

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

No need for you to get upset and accuse me of being any deceiver. On the post I responded to you did not present those words as scripture, you simply wrote them yourself, so how was one to know it was scripture ? You have been much too fast to accuse me of being any deceiver, which makes you guilty of bearing false witness yourself. I am not any deceiver, as a matter of fact I am very far from it. You should try and be more accurate with your assessments and stay just a bit more calm.

 

[dcontroversal]

What a sad day....live your whole life, believe in your mind you are keeping the law and maintaining your salvation by your own works and have right before GOD to enter the kingdom....your day comes, you stand before the LORD and beg and weep with tears streaming down your face begging to enter based upon all the wonderful things you have done in the name of JESUS only to be told to depart into hell fire because JESUS never KNEW YOU

PLENTEOUS will be the number that come before JESUS pushing the exact same thing the lawyers and workers for peddle on this site....

LORD, LORD did we NOT.........

The bible is clear...

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us

Therefore WE conclude that a man is justified by FAITH without the deeds of the LAW

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

The simplicity found in Christ is rejected lock, stock and barrel by the MANY! <---WORD USED by JESUS..take it up with him!

 

[dcontroversal]

No need for you to get upset and accuse me of being any deceiver. On the post I responded to you did not present those words as scripture, you simply wrote them yourself, so how was one to know it was scripture ? You have been much too fast to accuse me of being any deceiver, which makes you guilty of bearing false witness yourself. I am not any deceiver, as a matter of fact I am very far from it. You should try and be more accurate with your assessments and stay just a bit more calm.

If you know the bible as good as you claim pal you should know it was a direct quote from Scripture....And my assessment was valid...YOU accused me of writing that myself when it was a direct quote.....so lets recap...

I quoted scripture
YOU ACCUSED ME of writing it MYSELF
I REBUKED YOU because YOU denied a verse of scripture while ACCUSING ME of penning it myself

A DIRECT quote without any OPINION attached......

MY WITNESS was GOOD based upon the facts...your's on the other hand...not so much!

 

[loyaldisciple]

Try again deceiver...Paul was inspired to write that....try the bible it will set your free from your false dogma....

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Why do you insist on beginning any name calling ? I have not called you any names. I believe you are letting your anger get the best of you, simply over a difference of interpretation. Can we not discuss the matter calmly ?

 

[Shamah]

What a sad day when...

The righteous Instructions of YHWH are shunned.

WHen any called for doing the right thing is framed as "self righteousness"

When promoting not sinning is called "justified by works"

When those that hate His Law set up a strawman and beat it up to appear right to their followers.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

Why do you insist on beginning any name calling ? I have not called you any names. I believe you are letting your anger get the best of you, simply over a difference of interpretation. Can we not discuss the matter calmly ?

This is your reply to a quoted verse of scripture....tell me how I should take this....instead of saying...where is that verse or I do not recall that verse etc....YOU ACCUSE ME IMMEDIATELY.....and make no mistake, I am not mad.....

Why don't you start by apologizing to me for accusing me of concluding something that I did not conclude, admit your error and then engage me in dialogue

Your reply---->No Sir. That is what you have concluded, not we. Others do have a right to their interpretation as well, you know.

 

[dcontroversal]

What a sad day when...

The righteous Instructions of YHWH are shunned.

WHen any called for doing the right thing is framed as "self righteousness"

When promoting not sinning is called "justified by works"

When those that hate His Law set up a strawman and beat it up to appear right to their followers.

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

When you can show where any have said to shun them or where any have promoted lifestyle of sin....then you can say what a sad day when....on the other hand...you push the exact dogma that Jesus speaks of when he says MANY will come before me saying........

faith plus law keeping to maintain or gain salvation is a lie....it has no power to save and is cursed by Paul in Galatians...

 

[loyaldisciple]

If you know the bible as good as you claim pal you should know it was a direct quote from Scripture....And my assessment was valid...YOU accused me of writing that myself when it was a direct quote.....so lets recap...

I quoted scripture
YOU ACCUSED ME of writing it MYSELF
I REBUKED YOU because YOU denied a verse of scripture while ACCUSING ME of penning it myself

A DIRECT quote without any OPINION attached......

MY WITNESS was GOOD based upon the facts...your's on the other hand...not so much!

Tell me exactly how much I "claimed" to know the Bible. Where did I make any such claim and how great was it ? I simply explained what many verses meant to me. I never made any claim of great knowledge as you suggest.

You did not present it as scripture. There was no verse ever described. You clearly wrote the words to appear as your own words and then expect others to know it is scripture. If you want words to be known as scripture then you should present them as scripture. Not any others fault you did not do that. So, then when you call someone a deceiver, simply because they did not recognize the words as scripture, that is then you making the mistake. You called someone a deceiver that truly is not any deceiver. There was no need for that.

 

[loyaldisciple]

This is your reply to a quoted verse of scripture....tell me how I should take this....instead of saying...where is that verse or I do not recall that verse etc....YOU ACCUSE ME IMMEDIATELY.....and make no mistake, I am not mad.....

Why don't you start by apologizing to me for accusing me of concluding something that I did not conclude, admit your error and then engage me in dialogue

Your reply---->No Sir. That is what you have concluded, not we. Others do have a right to their interpretation as well, you know.

You wrote it as if you, yourself had concluded it by not presenting it as scripture. When you don't present it as scripture, it is only natural for anyone to conclude it to be your words. It was not my mistake to believe it was your words, because that is exactly how you presented it. Furthermore, I have not and will not call you any names, which you have done unto me. You have jumped, out of your anger, and completely misjudged me my friend.

 

[dcontroversal]

You wrote it as if you, yourself had concluded it by not presenting it as scripture. When you don't present it as scripture, it is only natural for anyone to conclude it to be your words. It was not my mistake to believe it was your words, because that is exactly how you presented it. Furthermore, I have not and will not call you any names, which you have done unto me. You have jumped, out of your anger, and completely misjudged me my friend.

You are still accusing me...I wrote NOTHING in any manner like it was my own idea......just forget it...it seems obvious that you cannot admit error....same issue the Pharisees and lawyers had in the days of OLD....

By the way...Book, chapter an verse were added by men.....

THEREFORE, WE conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds of the LAW

 

[Shamah]

I see the Lawyers and Pharisees are still peddling law....law that condemns and makes none righteous....

Do you guys keep the law....NOPE --->Your guilty...........end of story!

When you can show where any have said to shun them or where any have promoted lifestyle of sin....then you can say what a sad day when....on the other hand...you push the exact dogma that Jesus speaks of when he says MANY will come before me saying........

faith plus law keeping to maintain or gain salvation is a lie....it has no power to save and is cursed by Paul in Galatians...

Any verse that promotes obedience brings name dalling and accusation from you.

I once posted this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]


and you called me a lawyer in reply...

ohh and you mentioned Mat 7...

yet you focus on 22 but ignore verse 21 and 23, verse 22 is showing some did "good works" according to what they thought was right, but Yahshua says those who do the will of the father go and those that practice iniquity do not, for you doctrine you need to alter the definition of iniquity to "self justified" rather than "anomia" = without Law.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me; Master! Master! will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Master! Master! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity.”[/FONT]



“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]practice” is word #G2038 Strong's Concordance - ergazomai: I work, trade, do, Original Word: ἐργάζομαι, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: ergazomai, Phonetic Spelling: (er-gad'-zom-ahee), Short Definition: I work, trade, do, Definition: I work, trade, perform, do, practice, commit, acquire by labor.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]iniquity” is word #G458 Strong's Concordance - anomia, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

why does love grow cold?

what is love?

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

this leads me back to what you called me a lawyer for:


[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Fact is YHWH knows the heart of every human.
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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