I am saying that because there are many Christians who are truly saved, but are not very sure about it. And the more confidence you can have in your security, the better will your grace walk be 
That is how I view it.....
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Yeah I don't know.....Our walk is based upon sanctification and the transformation that takes place in our lives per Romans 12:1-2....salvation and assurance are but the beginning point...as we mature, change, grow and become more sanctified in our daily life our walk will become more faithful before God....
That is how I view it.....
That is how I view it.....
Micah 6:8, “He has declared to you, O man, what is right. And what does יהוה require of you but to do right, and to love loving-commitment, and to walk humbly with your Father?”
Psalm 119:103-105, “How sweet to my taste has Your word been, More than honey to my mouth! From Your orders I get understanding; Therefore I have hated every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:22-25, “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Mighty, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, a word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, so that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue swear. One shall say, ‘Only in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]do I have righteousness and strength’ – he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall be put to shame. In [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all the seed of Yisra’yl shall be declared right and glory.”[/FONT]
Psalm 119:103-105, “How sweet to my taste has Your word been, More than honey to my mouth! From Your orders I get understanding; Therefore I have hated every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:22-25, “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Mighty, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, a word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, so that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue swear. One shall say, ‘Only in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]do I have righteousness and strength’ – he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall be put to shame. In [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all the seed of Yisra’yl shall be declared right and glory.”[/FONT]
L
If the commandments mean absolutely nothing, then please explain this verse:
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The Messiah's words will never pass, He is he Master, our only Shepherd.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 - poimén)."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 John 1:9, “Everyone who is transgressing and not staying in the teaching of Messiah does not possess YHWH. The one who stays in the teaching of Messiah possesses both the Father and the Son.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 - poimén)."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 John 1:9, “Everyone who is transgressing and not staying in the teaching of Messiah does not possess YHWH. The one who stays in the teaching of Messiah possesses both the Father and the Son.” [/FONT]
L
If the old commandments mean absolutely nothing, then how do you explain this and many other verses within the New Testament stating to follow God's commandments ? Why would the New Testament contain scripture demanding the commandments to be followed, if they meant absolutely nothing ? This you have not explained and I do not believe you can explain it because it makes no sense. For what you are saying to be completely true, then many verses of the New Testament have to be entirely false.
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
L
But the scripture here obviously gives "value" unto the commandments and this is part of the New Testament. Are you saying this verse is "wrong" to give "value" to the commandments ? With your current stance that must be what you are saying. You cannot uphold your current position and also uphold this verse at the same time. For one to be true, then the other must be false. I believe you should think about this.
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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I agree with most of what you wrote, but NOT THE LAST PARAGRAPH. It goes the OPPOSITE WAY of what is Written in Titus:
Titus 3:4-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the goodness of God and His love for mankind appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
MERCY = is not receiving what you truly deserve.
GRACE = is RECEIVING what you Can Never Earn.
You are confusing SALVATION with SANCTIFICATION.
Hear are the differences:
SALVATION = Is what HE DOES FOR US, while we were YET Sinners and an Enemy of GOD, because HE IS MERCIFUL, AND HE LOVES US BY SHOWING US HIS GRACE, THAT HE GAVE US AS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD. AND if you do not believe in Predestination, look at the first verse that Paul wrote about himself pertaining to when GOD's Grace began: (Galatians 1:15-16, Rom. 5:10, Rom. 5:8, Eph. 2:4-9, Galatians 2:21, Galatians 1:6, Galatians 5:4-5, Galatians 2:16, 2 Timothy 1:9, 1 John 4:19, Rom. 5:5, 2 Corinthians 1:12, 1 Cor. 15:10, John 4:10, Romans 6:23)
SANCTIFICATION = The is what We DO TO OUR BODIES, WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AFTER WE ARE SAVED. Out of LOVE for HIM, and our BRETHREN, we will try our best to Walk like Christ, which includes OBEDIENCE. NOTICE THE FIRST VERSE, THE SPIRIT PRODUCES LOVE IN THE BELIEVER, AFTER HE HAS POURED OUT GOD'S LOVE INTO THE HEART, ROM. 5:5, WHICH IS AFTER HE SAVED US: (Galatians 5:22, 1 John 2:5-6, Romans 6:3-5, 1 John 5:3, Titus 3:4, 1 John 3:14-19, 1 Corinthians 9:27 but SALVATION is not the Reward or a Prize which is the Laurel Wreath CROWNS, Romans 6:19, 2 Corinthians 7:1, 1 John 3:2)
YES, SALVATION of the Human Spirit happens in the moment that we first believed, WHEN the Holy Spirit Births our once dead spirit into ETERNAL LIFE.
John 5:24 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
But you must remember, that genuine belief is NOT HEAD KNOWLEDGE, it is HEART KNOWLEDGE.
However, SANCTIFICATION of the Body, begins AFTER YOU ARE SAVED. You will WANT TO BE LIKE CHRIST, but that is a life long process, where you study the Word and Apply it to your life, knowing we will not be PERFECTLY SANCTIFIED until the Resurrection or Calling Out of the Bride, which ever comes first.
Go ahead and put yourself back under the Law. But if you do, Paul warned you're placing yourself under a curse.
"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” (Galatians 3:10-11)
Why? Because we are under a New Covenant. The Old one is "Obsolete". (Hebrews 8:13)
What would you say to Paul who said, " I myself am not under the Law." (1 Corinthians 9:20)?
"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” (Galatians 3:10-11)
Why? Because we are under a New Covenant. The Old one is "Obsolete". (Hebrews 8:13)
What would you say to Paul who said, " I myself am not under the Law." (1 Corinthians 9:20)?
yet Paul also said:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."
EIther you misunderstand Paul or he is a double talker.
Messiah makes it clear:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."
EIther you misunderstand Paul or he is a double talker.
Messiah makes it clear:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
[/FONT]
L
You stated "we are not under the law at all". That is to say the law has no value whatsoever. The scripture I just provided to you says otherwise. I am not placing myself completely under the law with no faith. I have both, as the Bible says both are of value. For you to say the law has zero value is to disagree with the scripture below. Is it not ?
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.